Oceania Precision RENEGADE - 9mm Lever Release

[stihl88]

Due for release mid-2025 - Jeff at Oceania Precision just announced the new RENEGADE 9mm lever release he's been working on for a while now and boy does it look sweet, as soon as pre-orders are announced it will releive me of my hard earned for certain

Feeds off Glock mags...

If i had to guess it'll come in around the $4k mark. He did recently announce he'll be outsourcing some manufacturing so hopefully that will bring the cost down a bit to stay competetive.

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[bladeracer]

Looks like a decent design for a faux-AR, but that one is no good for me, I'd want to adapt it to a left thumb button release on the forend. My right thumb won't operate that lever.

A mate ordered, and paid for, a Eureka Stockade some months ago because he wants to get the proposed 300BLK and 9mm conversions for it. Keeps getting put off, but at least the price is more realistic, if it ever eventuates.

[stihl88]

Agree on the lever location, not sure whay he settled with it on the right but in the .gif above it looks reasonably seamless to function. I'm sure an adapter could be made to change it to ambidextrous, maybe not.

I think in these Cat B - style AR's you get what you pay fort, i look at all the videos on the constant issues around the Eureka's and similar and i wouldn't touch one with a 10 foot pole and i think they look too bulky for my eyes, maybe it's the lack of lines... On the OP SP15 almost everything is interchangeable with an AR. It's just missing the Gas system... but that's what i like about this 9mm idiation.

One of the issues on the Eureka was users not being able to reach the lever comfortably, having to move their hand too far around to release the bolt, apparently they're providing a second lever for those with short thumbs

[bladeracer]

Ambidextrous wouldn't help me, the lever is simply in the wrong place, it should be operated by the support hand, not the firing hand. If you've tried the Buckmaster shotgun you'll know what I mean about the button release being best-positioned under your left thumb - it's as close as you can get to having the benefits of semi-auto without being semi-auto.

For me, all of these faux-AR's are way over-priced. They should be cheaper than bolt-action rifles in my opinion, not more expensive. I think the issue is trying to build them within Oz. They need to come up with a design that works, then hand it on to one of the overseas manufacturers to produce it at a realistic price. Otherwise they're always going to be aiming at a very limited niche market. These things are just novelty toys for me, especially in 9mm, which has virtually nothing to offer in a field rifle. Get them on the market for under $1000 though and I could see them selling like hotcakes to all those shooters that missed out on owning real semi-auto rifles.

Agree on the lever location, not sure why he settled with it on the right but in the .gif above it looks reasonably seamless to function. I'm sure an adapter could be made to change it to ambidextrous, maybe not.

I think in these Cat B - style AR's you get what you pay fort, i look at all the videos on the constant issues around the Eureka's and similar and i wouldn't touch one with a 10 foot pole and i think they look too bulky for my eyes, maybe it's the lack of lines... On the OP SP15 almost everything is interchangeable with an AR. It's just missing the Gas system... but that's what i like about this 9mm idiation.

One of the issues on the Eureka was users not being able to reach the lever comfortably, having to move their hand too far around to release the bolt, apparently they're providing a second lever for those with short thumbs

[Bugman]

Interesting design, but I'll stick with my bolt action

[stihl88]

Ambidextrous wouldn't help me, the lever is simply in the wrong place, it should be operated by the support hand, not the firing hand. If you've tried the Buckmaster shotgun you'll know what I mean about the button release being best-positioned under your left thumb - it's as close as you can get to having the benefits of semi-auto without being semi-auto.

For me, all of these faux-AR's are way over-priced. They should be cheaper than bolt-action rifles in my opinion, not more expensive. I think the issue is trying to build them within Oz. They need to come up with a design that works, then hand it on to one of the overseas manufacturers to produce it at a realistic price. Otherwise they're always going to be aiming at a very limited niche market. These things are just novelty toys for me, especially in 9mm, which has virtually nothing to offer in a field rifle. Get them on the market for under $1000 though and I could see them selling like hotcakes to all those shooters that missed out on owning real semi-auto rifles.

Yes he was aware of the different options of lever/button release including on the forend, not sure why he went with this final design.

They're not for everybody, I've got all the traditional stuff but the modularity and interchangeability of components of the AR platform can't be matched, they are by far the most versatile weapons system on the planet. I can do a full barrel swap in under 10 minutes, probably 5 min if i was on the clock, that's greased and torqued to spec and forend re-installed. Or about 10seconds with a simple upper receiver but that's the costly approach.

Yes the cost seems prohibitive at first, especially if you compare to the US market but that's comparing apples with oranges and we simply can't discount the R&D, tooling and one man show element in this cost and he certainly hasn't skimped on the end product unlike some in this class which IMO are CHEAP imitation garbage not even worth of the term "faux" as you say. By the time you purchase a Remington 700 and wack an Aluminium Chassis on it you're in for $3.5 -4k deep?

This probably wouldn't be my go to weapon for in the field, but if so it will still be useful inside 100yds. But there's several other boxes it does tick, some below to name a few, and if we applied most of these to most of my firearms then i'd have to rule out at least 2/3rd's of them;

- Juniors & the Missus can shoot
- Training
- H**e D*****e
- Interchangeability of mags/other platforrms
- Ammo & reloading cost

I see what you mean by "novelty", it would certainly be fun but still a very capable machine at the same time. At the end of the day it's each to their own and no one rifle ever fit's all. I'd have 5 of these over a single $20k shotgun, but that's just me.

[Wyliecoyote]

I have to agree with blade here that these are yet another faux AR novelty item. But i have to add, what niche beyond plinking do they fill? What is the selection of 9mm hunting ammo like? I find it odd that these AR platform rifles are sold in a country that doesn't allow semi autos, have short barrels for a country that has zero suppressor licencing beyond special needs contractors and are universally missing from any form of competition. i have never seen one of these type rifles in competition anywhere. So that assumes most are bought under the hunting provision of our licensing laws. So another AR style rifle in a useless caliber that is no longer cheap to feed, fills not one requirement of any form of competition and will be most likely bought to take to range days as a talking point. They should sell like hotcakes.

[bladeracer]

I'm certainly a fan of AR accessories, I have six Ruger Americans in MDT chassis, a spare chassis, and a big box of various AR bits to swap in and out of them as the whim takes me. But I don't need the complex machining required to make it look like an AR rifle, I'm much happier when they concentrate on making the best rifle they can rather than try to make it look like something it is not. My Chassis rifles were all bought as conventional rifles and I put them into their chassis, which made all of them (including the rimfires) cost me around $1600-$1800 each, including the rifle. If I travel interstate I can quickly drop them back into their conventional stocks.

I can't see any tangible value in the AR barrel system as I'm unlikely to be changing barrels, I'd rather have an additional rifle in the chambering I want so I can use either one whenever I want to. Conversion kits make great sense in handguns, not so much in rifles, for me at least.

The 9mm version would be great for 3-Gun, and for cheap practicing in the paddock, but I would have to fabricate a forend button-release for it. The Chimera should be on the market in weeks in .223 and that is a better design I think.

I agree that 9mm is great for training with, but .223 can be loaded down very cheaply as well, cheaper than I can load 9mm or .38 without casting my own bullets. I'm using 12-cent bullets in .223 and 24-cent bullets in .38 Special at the moment.

Yes he was aware of the different options of lever/button release including on the forend, not sure why he went with this final design.

They're not for everybody, I've got all the traditional stuff but the modularity and interchangeability of components of the AR platform can't be matched, they are by far the most versatile weapons system on the planet. I can do a full barrel swap in under 10 minutes, probably 5 min if i was on the clock, that's greased and torqued to spec and forend re-installed. Or about 10seconds with a simple upper receiver but that's the costly approach.

Yes the cost seems prohibitive at first, especially if you compare to the US market but that's comparing apples with oranges and we simply can't discount the R&D, tooling and one man show element in this cost and he certainly hasn't skimped on the end product unlike some in this class which IMO are CHEAP imitation garbage not even worth of the term "faux" as you say. By the time you purchase a Remington 700 and wack an Aluminium Chassis on it you're in for $3.5 -4k deep?

This probably wouldn't be my go to weapon for in the field, but if so it will still be useful inside 100yds. But there's several other boxes it does tick, some below to name a few, and if we applied most of these to most of my firearms then i'd have to rule out at least 2/3rd's of them;

- Juniors & the Missus can shoot
- Training
- H**e D*****e
- Interchangeability of mags/other platforrms
- Ammo & reloading cost

I see what you mean by "novelty", it would certainly be fun but still a very capable machine at the same time. At the end of the day it's each to their own and no one rifle ever fit's all. I'd have 5 of these over a single $20k shotgun, but that's just me.

[bladeracer]

I have to agree with blade here that these are yet another faux AR novelty item. But i have to add, what niche beyond plinking do they fill? What is the selection of 9mm hunting ammo like? I find it odd that these AR platform rifles are sold in a country that doesn't allow semi autos, have short barrels for a country that has zero suppressor licencing beyond special needs contractors and are universally missing from any form of competition. i have never seen one of these type rifles in competition anywhere. So that assumes most are bought under the hunting provision of our licensing laws. So another AR style rifle in a useless caliber that is no longer cheap to feed, fills not one requirement of any form of competition and will be most likely bought to take to range days as a talking point. They should sell like hotcakes.

They're very handy for 3-Gun competition, and I would consider them a great option for honing your speed abilities with larger chamberings. Engaging small plates scattered around a paddock with 9mm would be great training for doing the same thing with rifle chamberings, with reduced noise, cost and property size. But I think there is more value in training with the same platform, just use reduced loads for those same benefits.

I really dislike all the effort they go to to try to make them look like AR's, which just makes them ridiculously expensive for no benefit.

[stihl88]

I have to agree with blade here that these are yet another faux AR novelty item. But i have to add, what niche beyond plinking do they fill? What is the selection of 9mm hunting ammo like? I find it odd that these AR platform rifles are sold in a country that doesn't allow semi autos, have short barrels for a country that has zero suppressor licencing beyond special needs contractors and are universally missing from any form of competition. i have never seen one of these type rifles in competition anywhere. So that assumes most are bought under the hunting provision of our licensing laws. So another AR style rifle in a useless caliber that is no longer cheap to feed, fills not one requirement of any form of competition and will be most likely bought to take to range days as a talking point. They should sell like hotcakes.

I love seeing Aussie manufacturers have a go, too many people piss and moan about not having access to stuff like this and when they finally bring it to the market in the best possible format to with in an inch of the law or in excess of in some states we find excuses to not own one.

Wouldn't be my go to hunting rifle but the followng video shows It's more than capable of doing the job if needed https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1AHNWgrFnY

As for short barrel, 14" seems to be where peak performance is at.

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There's a Pistol Caliber Carbine discipline which this platform meets minimum requirement of 9mm (9x19mm), IPSC Australia includes this discipline.

I agree, the lack of semi-auto is a definate drawback but I don't think it's the drawcard of the AR platform either. The rifle's modularity which allows for extensive customisation to suit individual needs without the need for a gunsmith in my opinion is it's drawcard otherwise they'd be making faux AK's, the most popular firearm on the planet!

A peron i know wondered the same thing about the AR platform, was dead against them but something caught his eye and he ended up getting one after a while (the Wedgetail) and absolutely loves it and fully appreciates it's modularity.

[bladeracer]

I would love to see an Aussie manufacturer bring something worthwhile to market as well, but at a reasonable price. I signed up for the Yarra Sheila purely because they were trying to bring it to market for under $2000, I thought that goal was worth supporting despite having little interest in the rifle itself. But it got bogged down in trying to look like an AR and failed. I love the AR platform for what it is, not what it looks like. The rifle doesn't have to aesthetically imitate an AR to offer the same benefits, I'd much rather the rifle be designed to best do the job. You get the same AR component modularity and ergonomics in chassis bolt-action rifles that actually make great rifles, without the quality getting washed out in complexities that only try to give the appearance of being something they aren't. These compromises are why they should be cheaper than bolt-action rifles in my opinion, and yet they put ridiculous prices on them.

The cartridge has some potential, I consider it pretty much equivalent to .357Mag, but the .357 is far more versatile. I don't know if this design of rifle is as pressure-fussy as a semi-auto but the magazine and feed system probably greatly restricts bullet choices anyway. The 9mm lacks accuracy, in my experience, for realistic hunting situations. The cartridge is marginal so the bullet needs to be well placed, but I don't know what sort of accuracy this rifle is actually capable of in the field.

I love seeing Aussie manufacturers have a go, too many people piss and moan about not having access to stuff like this and when they finally bring it to the market in the best possible format to with in an inch of the law or in excess of in some states we find excuses to not own one.

Wouldn't be my go to hunting rifle but the followng video shows It's more than capable of doing the job if needed https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1AHNWgrFnY

As for short barrel, 14" seems to be where peak performance is at.

9mmluger.png

There's a Pistol Caliber Carbine discipline which this platform meets minimum requirement of 9mm (9x19mm), IPSC Australia includes this discipline.

I agree, the lack of semi-auto is a definate drawback but I don't think it's the drawcard of the AR platform either. The rifle's modularity which allows for extensive customisation to suit individual needs without the need for a gunsmith in my opinion is it's drawcard otherwise they'd be making faux AK's, the most popular firearm on the planet!

A person i know wondered the same thing about the AR platform, was dead against them but something caught his eye and he ended up getting one after a while (the Wedgetail) and absolutely loves it and fully appreciates it's modularity.

[stihl88]

I'm certainly a fan of AR accessories, I have six Ruger Americans in MDT chassis, a spare chassis, and a big box of various AR bits to swap in and out of them as the whim takes me. But I don't need the complex machining required to make it look like an AR rifle, I'm much happier when they concentrate on making the best rifle they can rather than try to make it look like something it is not. My Chassis rifles were all bought as conventional rifles and I put them into their chassis, which made all of them (including the rimfires) cost me around $1600-$1800 each, including the rifle. If I travel interstate I can quickly drop them back into their conventional stocks.

I can't see any tangible value in the AR barrel system as I'm unlikely to be changing barrels, I'd rather have an additional rifle in the chambering I want so I can use either one whenever I want to. Conversion kits make great sense in handguns, not so much in rifles, for me at least.

The 9mm version would be great for 3-Gun, and for cheap practicing in the paddock, but I would have to fabricate a forend button-release for it. The Chimera should be on the market in weeks in .223 and that is a better design I think.

I agree that 9mm is great for training with, but .223 can be loaded down very cheaply as well, cheaper than I can load 9mm or .38 without casting my own bullets. I'm using 12-cent bullets in .223 and 24-cent bullets in .38 Special at the moment.

The chassis are a great alternative to deliver on the AR modularity front. I was at a crossroads of purchasing chassis for a few of mine but decided to go down the OP SP15 path instead as it delivers a more on the modularity front that i wanted. I've since added the FABA kit to mine and it's great but i think the next step up on these is the button/lever release to keep you on target more. I should think a button mod up front on this 9mm wouldn't be too difficult to design...

Biggest tangible benefit of barrel swap is cost whilst running the chambering you're after without outlaying $$$, second is being able to maintain your current platform with all your modular components to suit. Though not as convenient the cost of a new upper isn't much less than a complete unit, about $1k less on memory and if i need a different caliber/chambering in a pinch then that's easily solved but it just won't be kitted out like the AR platform, I'd then need adjust all other surrounding elements to suit depending on the situation. Other benefit is minimum calibre requirements for hunting Deer, can't do that with .223 so that's where the .350L steps in for this platform, even this 9mm is compliant vs .223

Keep in mind at night i'm running mine in conjunction with NOD's, IR weapon mounted torch and an NGAL WML. If i want I can RTZ hotswap between the NV Eotech & Magnifier (1 - 4) an LPVO and Thermal scope in a pinch. If all goes to s**t then the BUIS and LEP WM torch is good for out to 500yds... No way i can match this setup and modularity in a pinch.

Yep saw the Chimera announcement a while back, it looks like it may be a winner, ticks quite a few boxes althogh still not enough boxes as the SP15 ticked for me so it wouldn't interest me other than the button release function, maybe.

Reloading
.223 - Currently $2 p/round (approx) makes sense to reload at $0.24c p/round but this doesn't factor in your time of course.
9mm - At about 50-60c p/round I think reloads would make sense only if pumping out large numbers or desire speacilty ammo and have time spare.

Just looking at some rough numbers on the net and in theory, general consensus is 9mm is roughly 25% cheaper to reload than .223.

[stihl88]

Looks like the Wayback machine has the webpage captured on the Yarra Sheila still: https://web.archive.org/web/20190305063 ... heila.html

[bladeracer]

Reloading
.223 - Currently $2 p/round (approx) makes sense to reload at $0.24c p/round but this doesn't factor in your time of course.
9mm - At about 50-60c p/round I think reloads would make sense only if pumping out large numbers or desire speacilty ammo and have time spare.

Just looking at some rough numbers on the net and in theory, general consensus is 9mm is roughly 25% cheaper to reload than .223.

24c nowadays will barely buy the primer

I haven't found commercial 9mm bullets as cheap as the bulk .224" 55gn, 62gn and 69gn bullets offered by Cleaver. I can load 9mm with commercial bullets as cheaply as I'm loading .223, but only because Cleaver has a special on at the moment for cast bullets at 14c apiece, more than I paid for jacketed .224" bullets. I can definitely load 9mm for less than jacketed .223 if I cast the 9mm bullets myself. Using commercial bullets I'm loading .38 Special for 33c a round now, but I've discovered cheaper bullets that should get it down to 23c a round. But when I run out of primers the price will go up by at least 14c a round. I don't see 9mm being significantly different, it just uses a couple more grains of powder. And I'm making around 200rds per hour.

I'll continue loading my own pistol ammo. I don't need particularly large amounts of 9mm. I'm hoping to regularly do four pistol matches per month, two IPSC and two Cowboy, plus matches at my local club so I'm allowing maybe 300rds of centrefire a month next year. I enjoy practicing more than competing so I'll be burning more than that on my own, but I would do most of my practicing with .22LR.

[stihl88]

Reloading
.223 - Currently $2 p/round (approx) makes sense to reload at $0.24c p/round but this doesn't factor in your time of course.
9mm - At about 50-60c p/round I think reloads would make sense only if pumping out large numbers or desire speacilty ammo and have time spare.

Just looking at some rough numbers on the net and in theory, general consensus is 9mm is roughly 25% cheaper to reload than .223.

24c nowadays will barely buy the primer

I haven't found commercial 9mm bullets as cheap as the bulk .224" 55gn, 62gn and 69gn bullets offered by Cleaver. I can load 9mm with commercial bullets as cheaply as I'm loading .223, but only because Cleaver has a special on at the moment for cast bullets at 14c apiece, more than I paid for jacketed .224" bullets. I can definitely load 9mm for less than jacketed .223 if I cast the 9mm bullets myself. Using commercial bullets I'm loading .38 Special for 33c a round now, but I've discovered cheaper bullets that should get it down to 23c a round. But when I run out of primers the price will go up by at least 14c a round. I don't see 9mm being significantly different, it just uses a couple more grains of powder. And I'm making around 200rds per hour.

I'll continue loading my own pistol ammo. I don't need particularly large amounts of 9mm. I'm hoping to regularly do four pistol matches per month, two IPSC and two Cowboy, plus matches at my local club so I'm allowing maybe 300rds of centrefire a month next year. I enjoy practicing more than competing so I'll be burning more than that on my own, but I would do most of my practicing with .22LR.

My bad, that didn't come out the way i typed it... $0.24 per any reload in anything would be nice

Looks like cleavers has the following prices per 1000 so pretty even across the board. Theres also un jacketed from Hawkesbury River BC and Black Widow projectiles (coated) and the likes for slightly less $ per 500/1000.

9mm
115Gr = $0.135c ea
124 = $0.155c ea
147Gr = $0.155c ea

38/357
125Gr = $0.14c ea
158Gr = $0.179c ea

.224 (Hornady SP)
55Gr = $0.17c ea (special)
The Barn does 6000 for $0.20c ea or 600 for $0.21ea if this special price doesn't hold.

[Wyliecoyote]

A mate i saw over Christmas rang Oceania about cost and availability. He went no further when told $5k retail for the rifle.

[alexjones]

I do like pistol calibre carbines(PCC). Something like this would be good for sports. IPSC, 3 gun etc. Would also be good to use at pistol ranges.

Something like this could be used for hunting small game at close distances but I would 100% bet the people who buy this will use it as a range toy or backyard plinker. Nothing wrong with that. The more guns on the market the better.

I like the fake AR guns such as Warricks, Oceanias, Wedgetails etc because it gets a lot of younger people into shooting because the guns look "cool". And the more younger people we get into guns the better our chances are at changing the laws to get real ARs back into the hands of the people of Queensland if not the Commonwealth. Children are the key to getting better gun laws. Get them whilst they are young into liking guns and freedom before they become commies.

[alexjones]

I'll continue loading my own pistol ammo. I don't need particularly large amounts of 9mm. I'm hoping to regularly do four pistol matches per month, two IPSC and two Cowboy, plus matches at my local club so I'm allowing maybe 300rds of centrefire a month next year. I enjoy practicing more than competing so I'll be burning more than that on my own, but I would do most of my practicing with .22LR.

Yeah mate. 22 pistols are awesome. So easy to shoot a CCI standard brick in a range visit. Not long ago that was only about $50 but a bit more now.

22lr conversion kit for a 1911 is what I like to use.

[bladeracer]

I do like pistol calibre carbines(PCC). Something like this would be good for sports. IPSC, 3 gun etc. Would also be good to use at pistol ranges.

Something like this could be used for hunting small game at close distances but I would 100% bet the people who buy this will use it as a range toy or backyard plinker. Nothing wrong with that. The more guns on the market the better.

I like the fake AR guns such as Warricks, Oceanias, Wedgetails etc because it gets a lot of younger people into shooting because the guns look "cool". And the more younger people we get into guns the better our chances are at changing the laws to get real ARs back into the hands of the people of Queensland if not the Commonwealth. Children are the key to getting better gun laws. Get them whilst they are young into liking guns and freedom before they become commies.

A 9mm PCC would be just as much fun as the .22's for our weekly practicing, but .22 eats the 9mm because because I don't have to load 400rds of 9mm every week to do it. And I don't see any significant difference between using .22 and 9mm for this. Handguns would be different because the 9mm has a lot more recoil, but I can't do that at home anyway.

I agree with this, and the Police and government know it too, that's why most states no longer allow us to teach children about firearms.

[stihl88]

A mate i saw over Christmas rang Oceania about cost and availability. He went no further when told $5k retail for the rifle.

The Renegade was added to the website yesterday, $4995 is the confirmed price. https://www.oceaniaprecision.com.au/rifles/renegade/

It says there are more caliber options being tested, maybe 45 ACP or even 10mm Auto would be nice but that will likely need radial delayed blowback if so.
Some rifle calibers would be nice, would need to run gas blowback though.