Reloading press

[Fester]

Hard to go past the current sales on the RCBS Rockchucker kit for $600 as it's buy once for life.

I went a Hrdy kit as RCBS were about $800 and that was 10 years back.
Sowly, bit by bit everything bar the press went green.
Then I scored a Rock chucker press used, much the same as the Hrdy but about twice as heavy.
When I found the lost bits, I sold the Lock and load and recouped $ as no need for 2 presses as every die is set and fitted into the Hrdy quick change sleeves, just slot in by hand and never adjust the die again.

I wore out my Lee sizing dies and found those basic Redding 2 die sets for about $95. They are a step above the rest in both design and quality. 2nd choice is RCBS.

All those special-purpose dies from Lee are fine, factory crimping, de-capper, neck expanding dies, etc.
It's a rabbit hole but now have all the machines to do the work and not bought much for a couple of years so it slowly pays off as I shoot a lot.

[wanneroo]

Forster stuff sems well made. Might have to take a closer look, for reloading my 243.

I only have one Forster die set but it is high quality. The co ax press I don't know if it would be my thing but a lot of people like em.

[Oldbloke]

Robin,
How did you go?

[GQshayne]

This topic has me thinking about my equipment. I have always used an O Frame Lyman press for re-sizing, and I also have a 6 position turret press, which is good for seating dies that do not need to be touched, or neck sizing. But I do not use it for full length re-sizing as I prefer the feel of the O Frame.

However, the O frame means that the relevent die needs to be adjusted each time it is used. This never bothered me for 30 years, but now I have a need for accurate shoulder bump for one die, and probably should be more accurate with the others now too. So being able to set them permanently is an advantage.

So I am thinking that the Hornady Lock N Load or the Lee Breech lock, would be a nice addition to my equipment. The Lee is a very cheap item in my opinion, and even the Hornady is not overly expensive given they never wear out. I did not see a Lyman or RCBS press that has this type of die fitting.

For those of you that have used the Lee, is it a good press? I have read it has a bit of tolerance in it.
How about the Hornady??

Have I overlooked any issues with them?

[Oldbloke]

I know 2 blokes with lee press. They are happy with them.
Haven't used one myself.

"However, the O frame means that the relevent die needs to be adjusted each time it is used"

Don't understating why?

[bladeracer]

I know 2 blokes with lee press. They are happy with them.
Haven't used one myself.

"However, the O frame means that the relevant die needs to be adjusted each time it is used"

Don't understating why?

I'm with you, OB, I don't see the issue. Once I have my bump set I leave the die set, it never changes. With several firearms in the same chambering I set the shoulder bump to the deepest so the ammo will fit all the firearms okay, but I still try to keep separate brass if they're significantly different. I have two o-frame presses and can swap the dies in them without requiring any adjustment. I haven't used the C-Frame press for a little while and can't recall, but I think that also retains the positions. The Handpress is different, if I want to use that then I'll have to adjust the dies.

[bladeracer]

This topic has me thinking about my equipment. I have always used an O Frame Lyman press for re-sizing, and I also have a 6 position turret press, which is good for seating dies that do not need to be touched, or neck sizing. But I do not use it for full length re-sizing as I prefer the feel of the O Frame.

However, the O frame means that the relevent die needs to be adjusted each time it is used. This never bothered me for 30 years, but now I have a need for accurate shoulder bump for one die, and probably should be more accurate with the others now too. So being able to set them permanently is an advantage.

So I am thinking that the Hornady Lock N Load or the Lee Breech lock, would be a nice addition to my equipment. The Lee is a very cheap item in my opinion, and even the Hornady is not overly expensive given they never wear out. I did not see a Lyman or RCBS press that has this type of die fitting.

For those of you that have used the Lee, is it a good press? I have read it has a bit of tolerance in it.
How about the Hornady??

Have I overlooked any issues with them?

I'm not sure what you're saying here. Do you mean that you normally use one press and then when you want to use the other press you have to adjust the dies? If I want a die set "permanently" I would just buy another die from Lee, set it, and mark it so it never gets changed. But I haven't needed such a setup. If you use a collet to measure the shoulder position and record it you can simply set the die up any time to that same position, though it does require lubing the brass each time you run it into the die to bump the shoulder incrementally to the point you want it. I generally don't bother recording the shoulder length, I just run the brass through the chamber and if it's tight I run it into the die, adjusting it until the bolt closes on the case, then set the die there.

I very often think I'd like more powder throwers so I can set some up "permanently" for the common loads I do, but the setup time is pretty much nothing, and the charges will vary over time with different powder lots, and probably internal wear in the system. And if I'm using the powder thrower it means I'm making ammo that isn't fussy if it's a tenth or two out anyway.

As for a comparison I don't know, I've only used the Lee gear and it works just fine for me. I know people that use other gear that works just fine for them, but I've never sat down with both and tried to determine whether one is "better" than another. It's probably a case of it works fine so why change. I would assume all presses will wear over time, but my primary press has done thousands of rounds and while there may be wear in it I've never noticed any. Just keep the main ram cleaned and oiled and it should last a lifetime.

[Oldbloke]

It's confusing. Lee seem to call both the portable and the little C press by same name. "Breech Lock"

I think Shayn is asking about the breech lock "quick change" fittings. (Will would need a new press.)

I did have issues with the Lee dies because the lock nut is crappy. I bought a couple of these:
A few brands about.

Screenshot_20241226-215513_Samsung Internet.jpg (248.54 KiB) Viewed 1280 times

[bladeracer]

It's confusing. Lee seem to call bothe the portable and the little C press by same name. "Breech Lock"

I think wm is asking about the breech lock "quick change" fittings.
I did have issues with the Lee dies because the lock nut is crappy. I bought a couple of these:
A few brands about.

Screenshot_20241226-215513_Samsung Internet.jpg

Breechlock refers to the interrupted thread design as opposed to the old design that you have to screw the dies all the way into.
Those are good but I bought a pile of the Lee locking bushings out of the US years ago, need more of the bushings now though. Mine are the old style, not the new "spline drive" ones.

[Fester]

Although you can set your dies up and just lock up the screw on the locking ring, then just screw the die down to the ring, the Hrdy quick change sleeves are just too easy, change die with 2 fingers in about 2 seconds.

I was going to keep my Hrdy press when I scored a Rockchucker but why, 2 presses a a big bench space loss and every die I use is adjusted and in a quick change sleeve.

For me, high use and buy once ruled out Lee.
Even the presses have known failure points that will show up when used heaps.
An O-Frame press is a strong design for a strong job if you full size big old school cartridges.

The Hrdy would have done me as I don't shoot any real big cals but the RCBS is overkill and a bit smoother and tighter tollerances.

I did use 2 sets of Lee FLRSing dies and killed them with my high use.
The other brands are all still going fine.
I also had 2 neck sizing collet dies jam up as I didn't know they needed grease for the collet fingers to not jam up and fail.
When I first set up the Lee FLRS dies, I noticed the decaping pin would be pushed in every usage and I would have to lock them up so tight that the threads would gaul up and damage more every time I had to adjust them.
The other brands all worked fine but the Redding design makes all those issues gone as well as easily replacing or removing de-capping pins, un-like other brand designs.

All those special purpose Lee dies seem fine and I would be lost without some of them.
I also set up a Lee benchtop auto primer set up for safety and not wrecking my RCBS universal hand primer with all these diff brand tight primers. If it breaks, I will fix it with new parts as it's a good thing.

There is often a much cheaper alternative to the good gear but it costs way more to buy twice.

[GQshayne]

Although you can set your dies up and just lock up the screw on the locking ring, then just screw the die down to the ring, the Hrdy quick change sleeves are just too easy, change die with 2 fingers in about 2 seconds.

I was going to keep my Hrdy press when I scored a Rockchucker but why, 2 presses a a big bench space loss and every die I use is adjusted and in a quick change sleeve.

So are you saying that RCBS have a similar system??? I could not find it.

[GQshayne]

To Blade and OB,

I my experience with my equipment I have now, any die I put in the O frame press is not fully secure unless I re-tighten the lock ring. If I leave the lock ring in position to set the die seating depth in the press, I have seen them move and come loose. If I re-tighten the lock ring, then in a small way I have changed the adjustment. This is why I am looking at the Breech Lock and Lock N Load systems. The die is fitted into the holder, the lock ring set, and from then on is not touched again.

[bladeracer]

To Blade and OB,

I my experience with my equipment I have now, any die I put in the O frame press is not fully secure unless I re-tighten the lock ring. If I leave the lock ring in position to set the die seating depth in the press, I have seen them move and come loose. If I re-tighten the lock ring, then in a small way I have changed the adjustment. This is why I am looking at the Breech Lock and Lock N Load systems. The die is fitted into the holder, the lock ring set, and from then on is not touched again.

Oh, yours is the old-style screw-in, not the interrupted thread system? Have you tried using two lockrings against each other?

[GQshayne]

To Blade and OB,

I my experience with my equipment I have now, any die I put in the O frame press is not fully secure unless I re-tighten the lock ring. If I leave the lock ring in position to set the die seating depth in the press, I have seen them move and come loose. If I re-tighten the lock ring, then in a small way I have changed the adjustment. This is why I am looking at the Breech Lock and Lock N Load systems. The die is fitted into the holder, the lock ring set, and from then on is not touched again.

Oh, yours is the old-style screw-in, not the interrupted thread system? Have you tried using two lockrings against each other?

I do not even know what that is!!! My dies screw into the press (1980's Lyman), lock ring tightened, and then the grub screw done up tp prevent movement. In some way, not re-doing the grub screw each time means it is not secure. That means the die can move.

I have not tried two lock rings, but not sure how that would help the issue, as whichever one is against the press, would need to be tightened each time.

The Breech Lock and Lock N Load systems look great, so thought I would seek opinion from people that had used them. In regards to the Lee, they have a C Frame unit, which I think I would overlook for the O Frame Challenger 3. Aussie shops still have the previous model byu the looks, as the 3 is a newish version. The old one had a button to be pushed to release the die holder and the new one does not. I read a few comments that the button was not favoured by users.

I have not looked closer at the Hornady yet.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oqZMqEjq_Oo

[Oldbloke]

To Blade and OB,

I my experience with my equipment I have now, any die I put in the O frame press is not fully secure unless I re-tighten the lock ring. If I leave the lock ring in position to set the die seating depth in the press, I have seen them move and come loose. If I re-tighten the lock ring, then in a small way I have changed the adjustment. This is why I am looking at the Breech Lock and Lock N Load systems. The die is fitted into the holder, the lock ring set, and from then on is not touched again.

Oh, yours is the old-style screw-in, not the interrupted thread system? Have you tried using two lockrings against each other?

Yes using the allun key and lock ring.

I tried using two "lock nuts" but didn't work well as flats never seem to align.

What I'm using seems ok so far. Better at least.
I have e written down the distance to shoulder and check a couple now.

Another thing I discovered is if you change the sizing lube the amount of bump changes a tad,,, believe it or not.

[bladeracer]

I do not even know what that is!!! My dies screw into the press (1980's Lyman), lock ring tightened, and then the grub screw done up tp prevent movement. In some way, not re-doing the grub screw each time means it is not secure. That means the die can move.

I have not tried two lock rings, but not sure how that would help the issue, as whichever one is against the press, would need to be tightened each time.

The Breech Lock and Lock N Load systems look great, so thought I would seek opinion from people that had used them. In regards to the Lee, they have a C Frame unit, which I think I would overlook for the O Frame Challenger 3. Aussie shops still have the previous model by the looks, as the 3 is a newish version. The old one had a button to be pushed to release the die holder and the new one does not. I read a few comments that the button was not favoured by users.

I have not looked closer at the Hornady yet.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oqZMqEjq_Oo

The Breechlock system is an interrupted-thread bushing so it takes a third of a turn to remove the die from the press. Similar to the other interrupted thread systems used by other press manufacturers. The Breechlock system is in the O-Frame, C-Frame and the Handpress. I bought my first Breechlock press kit at the end of 2014 so they've been available for at least that long.

When I run short of locking bushings I just use two lockrings with the standard bushings. Two lockrings locked together do not move, the die position won't change. The locking bushings do away with the lockrings so I have a box full of them.

[bladeracer]

Yes using the allun key and lock ring.

I tried using two "lock nuts" but didn't work well as flats never seem to align.

What I'm using seems ok so far. Better at least.
I have e written down the distance to shoulder and check a couple now.

Another thing I discovered is if you change the sizing lube the amount of bump changes a tad,,, believe it or not.

The flats don't need to align, just lock them together. You're only screwing the die hand-tight into the press, you shouldn't need a spanner to remove it.

Interesting, I've only ever used the Lee sizing lube, though I used graphite powder when I was a kid.

[Oldbloke]

I found if I only hand tighten the dies they seem to work loose after a while. So,, I like to "nip" them up with a spanner.

Because I never really had a mentor it was learn by your mistakes.
Yrs ago got told just use 90 diff oil. (FLS)
Well it works. All was well for 30yrs. About a year ago I was convinced to try coconut oil. It's great for your skin. Well it works too. No issues for some time. But I discovered few weeks ago it only works if its cool weather and solid. If you use it on a hot day it's a very thin oil and it's sh1t. Two stuck 223 cases later I realised what was going on.
Tried std engine oil, not much better.
Tried 90 diff oil, better, worked.
Soo, then tried some lanolin based grease I had. (Been thinking grease might work for some time)

Well, lanolin grease was great. 223 & 30.06 cases slipped in like a groom on his wedding night. (FLS)

Later I did some measuring, seemed the bump increased a tad so had to adjust the die out.
So,, press must have been stretching a tiny tad using coconut oil.
It's a Simplex master "O" press, cast steel I think.

As an aside ADI suggest in one of their old manuals to use the old STP oil.

[Oldbloke]

Here it is. STP oil and a tube of hand cream.

IMG_20241228_000128.jpg (175.28 KiB) Viewed 1132 times

[Fester]

Although you can set your dies up and just lock up the screw on the locking ring, then just screw the die down to the ring, the Hrdy quick change sleeves are just too easy, change die with 2 fingers in about 2 seconds.

I was going to keep my Hrdy press when I scored a Rockchucker but why, 2 presses a a big bench space loss and every die I use is adjusted and in a quick change sleeve.

So are you saying that RCBS have a similar system??? I could not find it.

Because most dies and presses have that same thread 7/8 or whatever, you just screw the Hrdy Q/C press fitting into the RCBS press, screw your diff brand dies into the Hrndy sleeves and put them into the press by hand.
Simplex use a hole different system so dies are not like Lee, Hrdy, Lyman, and RCBS etc.

[Oldbloke]

I have the O press. It's same as any other 7/8" thread. It isn't the super simplex turret.

[Fester]

One of the best tricks I found was forget lube concoctions and just get the best.
Redding Imperial Sizing Wax, using very sparingly like the old cans state, it will last many years and if you just use One-shot or graphite for inside the necks, everything will go smooth and slick.
Also never get stuck cases.

Hrdy Oneshot is clean and convenient but you will end up with a stuck case sooner or later.
The press also feels like it's struggling and something could break.
I raced down to the chemist and bought a $10 tube of lanalon based cream and the press felt slick and smooth.
Sizing wax felt even smoother.

[Jorlcrin]

Although you can set your dies up and just lock up the screw on the locking ring, then just screw the die down to the ring, the Hrdy quick change sleeves are just too easy, change die with 2 fingers in about 2 seconds.

I was going to keep my Hrdy press when I scored a Rockchucker but why, 2 presses a a big bench space loss and every die I use is adjusted and in a quick change sleeve.

So are you saying that RCBS have a similar system??? I could not find it.

Because most dies and presses have that same thread 7/8 or whatever, you just screw the Hrdy Q/C press fitting into the RCBS press, screw your diff brand dies into the Hrndy sleeves and put them into the press by hand.
Simplex use a hole different system so dies are not like Lee, Hrdy, Lyman, and RCBS etc.

As mentioned in a number of other threads in the past few months, SUPER Simplex, is different to the other presses commonly available.

Simplex Master presses use the same thread as the other commonly available presses(7/8"x14??).
Some people make adapters for using Super Simplex dies in a 7/8x14 thread press, but unless you are loading something out of the ordinary, it's usually simpler to buy the 7/8 dies.

[Jorlcrin]

One of the best tricks I found was forget lube concoctions and just get the best.
Redding Imperial Sizing Wax, using very sparingly like the old cans state, it will last many years and if you just use One-shot or graphite for inside the necks, everything will go smooth and slick.
Also never get stuck cases.

Hrdy Oneshot is clean and convenient but you will end up with a stuck case sooner or later.
The press also feels like it's struggling and something could break.
I raced down to the chemist and bought a $10 tube of lanalon based cream and the press felt slick and smooth.
Sizing wax felt even smoother.

I use the imperial Die Sizing wax; find it hard to beat.
And as mentioned; a tin lasts a freaking lifetime.

[Robin]

Robin,
How did you go?

Sorry for the late reply,

My wife got me a voucher for Cleavers , so I'm going to head there maybe next week and get a few things to start with , I was thinking of the Hornaby
LOCK-N-LOAD® CLASSIC™ KIT DELUXE as it looks to have most of the things I need, and there is alot of stuff I'll get from the 2nd hand sites also.

[Fester]

Robin,
How did you go?

Sorry for the late reply,

My wife got me a voucher for Cleavers , so I'm going to head there maybe next week and get a few things to start with , I was thinking of the Hornaby
LOCK-N-LOAD® CLASSIC™ KIT DELUXE as it looks to have most of the things I need, and there is alot of stuff I'll get from the 2nd hand sites also.

The Lock and load press is fine and the plastic bits and thrower seemed as good as anything.
The cheapo Hrndy scales were to be my first upgrade as when they are bad, they are shocking and had to be re-set every few fills.

The only way to go with with that set-up is to throw just under and trickle up to the accurate weight.
Unfortunately those scales are not really up to trickling up and drift off, hence re-zeroing a lot.
May as well just be trickling up on a beam scale that is even slower.

I decided that a good electronic scale like a Gem Pro would cost several hundred bucks so got a RCBS Chargmaster lite as the scales (load cell) were said to be very good.
I could never go back to trickling up and scored a cheap set of old RCBS beam scales to check the chargemaster. Turns out it is so accurate, I never touch the beam scales.
All it does is the usual odd .1gr overthrows, but when you hear the finished beep and look at the readout, it tells you. I just tip 3 or 4 granuals into the spare pan and re-weigh to be sure.

Next upgrade was also a beauty as I pretty much wore out the Hrdy hand primer but was going to keep it set up for SR primers.
When I got the RCBS Universal hand priming tool, it was so superior and no shell holders needed as the spring claws just take any diff case sizes, I just threw the old hand primer in the bin.
It had done a lot of work as I shot a lot in those first 4-5 years, a couple of barrels worth.

It's a rabbit hole so I would have save by buying the RCBS kit first and not upgrading any of that original stuff. The cheaper sale prices now make it the choice, few hundred more but save many hundreds in upgrades. If you can't stretch the budget, Hrndy over Lee FOR SURE.

[Robin]

Robin,
How did you go?

Sorry for the late reply,

My wife got me a voucher for Cleavers , so I'm going to head there maybe next week and get a few things to start with , I was thinking of the Hornaby
LOCK-N-LOAD® CLASSIC™ KIT DELUXE as it looks to have most of the things I need, and there is alot of stuff I'll get from the 2nd hand sites also.

The Lock and load press is fine and the plastic bits and thrower seemed as good as anything.
The cheapo Hrndy scales were to be my first upgrade as when they are bad, they are shocking and had to be re-set every few fills.

The only way to go with with that set-up is to throw just under and trickle up to the accurate weight.
Unfortunately those scales are not really up to trickling up and drift off, hence re-zeroing a lot.
May as well just be trickling up on a beam scale that is even slower.

I decided that a good electronic scale like a Gem Pro would cost several hundred bucks so got a RCBS Chargmaster lite as the scales (load cell) were said to be very good.
I could never go back to trickling up and scored a cheap set of old RCBS beam scales to check the chargemaster. Turns out it is so accurate, I never touch the beam scales.
All it does is the usual odd .1gr overthrows, but when you hear the finished beep and look at the readout, it tells you. I just tip 3 or 4 granuals into the spare pan and re-weigh to be sure.

Next upgrade was also a beauty as I pretty much wore out the Hrdy hand primer but was going to keep it set up for SR primers.
When I got the RCBS Universal hand priming tool, it was so superior and no shell holders needed as the spring claws just take any diff case sizes, I just threw the old hand primer in the bin.
It had done a lot of work as I shot a lot in those first 4-5 years, a couple of barrels worth.

It's a rabbit hole so I would have save by buying the RCBS kit first and not upgrading any of that original stuff. The cheaper sale prices now make it the choice, few hundred more but save many hundreds in upgrades. If you can't stretch the budget, Hrndy over Lee FOR SURE.

My plan is to get to kit to get started and to upgrade as I go, there are parts I'll probley keep and others I'll put aside as a backup and upgrade like the scales.

[GQshayne]

OK OB & Blade, so now we understand each other!!!!!

I have an old press, not one that takes the fancy twist lock die holders. That is why I am asking for opinions on thr Lock N Load or Breech Lock. Looks like a good upgrade.

Fester, I am going to assume your RCBS press has the larger die insert that can be rermoved, and then the Lock N Load adaptor fitted. I saw one on Youtube yesteday. My press cannot do this. It has no removeable piece, as the die screws directly into the press.

[GQshayne]

Robin,
How did you go?

Sorry for the late reply,

My wife got me a voucher for Cleavers , so I'm going to head there maybe next week and get a few things to start with , I was thinking of the Hornaby
LOCK-N-LOAD® CLASSIC™ KIT DELUXE as it looks to have most of the things I need, and there is alot of stuff I'll get from the 2nd hand sites also.

The Lock and load press is fine and the plastic bits and thrower seemed as good as anything.
The cheapo Hrndy scales were to be my first upgrade as when they are bad, they are shocking and had to be re-set every few fills.

The only way to go with with that set-up is to throw just under and trickle up to the accurate weight.
Unfortunately those scales are not really up to trickling up and drift off, hence re-zeroing a lot.
May as well just be trickling up on a beam scale that is even slower.

I decided that a good electronic scale like a Gem Pro would cost several hundred bucks so got a RCBS Chargmaster lite as the scales (load cell) were said to be very good.
I could never go back to trickling up and scored a cheap set of old RCBS beam scales to check the chargemaster. Turns out it is so accurate, I never touch the beam scales.
All it does is the usual odd .1gr overthrows, but when you hear the finished beep and look at the readout, it tells you. I just tip 3 or 4 granuals into the spare pan and re-weigh to be sure.

Next upgrade was also a beauty as I pretty much wore out the Hrdy hand primer but was going to keep it set up for SR primers.
When I got the RCBS Universal hand priming tool, it was so superior and no shell holders needed as the spring claws just take any diff case sizes, I just threw the old hand primer in the bin.
It had done a lot of work as I shot a lot in those first 4-5 years, a couple of barrels worth.

It's a rabbit hole so I would have save by buying the RCBS kit first and not upgrading any of that original stuff. The cheaper sale prices now make it the choice, few hundred more but save many hundreds in upgrades. If you can't stretch the budget, Hrndy over Lee FOR SURE.

My plan is to get to kit to get started and to upgrade as I go, there are parts I'll probley keep and others I'll put aside as a backup and upgrade like the scales.

I think that sounds like a good starting point for you. I may get a Lock N Load press myself one day.

I have been using a beam scale since the 1980's. I cannot see that I will ever change this. I cannot say ifthe Hornady one is any good as mine is a Lyman. But I use with with a trickler and will continue to do so.

[Fester]

The point I was getting at is with the current RCBS specials, it means for a couple of hundred more, you get a kit containing a rock chucker press and other components that you will keep for life so it's cheaper than spending hundreds on up-grades.

Rockchucker kits used to cost $800 or more depending on shops.
The press alone used to be about $450 so $600 for the kit is a bargain.

My brain can't do the sums right ATM, but those Hrdy quick change sleeves work by fitting the press attachment into that std 7/8" press thread.
Then the dies, fitted into their sleeves just slot into the press sleeve.

I lost count on how many times I bought 4 and 6 packs of the dei sleeves so best look for a 20 pack to start with lol.

Some say because the sleeves seat on an o-ring that it will have slack rather than being solid.
I can assure you that every stroke my presses made were consistent and consistency is all that's needed to load accurate under 1/2 MOA ammo.
I have never used any exy bushing dies or other machines like Eric Cortina or the other top end F-class Fudds use.

I did shoot with a few of the old hands shooting their scoped .308s to teach myself LR doping and wind holds.
I was competitive with my Howa varmint and 6-9" Harris bipod with my ammo.
Sierra projies were a bit better grouping than Hrdy but that's just for F-class groups and I was not really into that as shooting a plate is more reactive and fun so cheaper ELDms are fine.