Sign of the times

[straightshooter]

This is how it works.
The representatives of the green woke left conspiracy have a list of demands and those who purport to represent us negotiate on our behalf and give away something of ours' that is tangible in return for a slight decrease in demands and a temporary cessation of public tirades.
Rinse and repeat ad nauseam.
And there is why we are where we are.
wanneroo
It's an error to attribute the US election result solely to one or another favoured personal issue even though they may have had some influence in the result.
Whether one lives in a microappartment or a mansion what people are waking up to is a tangible decline in present and expectations of future affluence of the sub elite classes in the US. As is the case in much of the rest of the western world.
Essentially that is the underlying driver of any political change irrespective of any professed ideological predisposition.
Only time will tell if the Orange Messiah lives up to the general expectation.

[mickb]

Shame to see you blokes all caning one another. Both side have good points and make extremely good observations.

As I've said, the people I've called "Fudds" let me down in 1996 and 2003 despite my attempts to make them stand to take a p*ss. It made me abandon my club shooting entirely, why? Because is was infested with self interest and jealousy. That's a fact. The reason we are continuing to get hits now is exactly the same.

Is it those old blokes that looked after their single shots? Target rifles? Clay shotties? The ones who set up a system so as to force you all into clubs and memberships? It was. The ones the young people complain about. The ones that run the clubs.

What about the generations now? The ones who say, I can't have semi-auto rifles and bush pistols, so I don't care about you farmers. Except when I want someone to let me roam over their joint, shoot stuff and not pay for the privilege.
I can't see why someone would want suppressors, so I won't join in on their attempts to make them available. I hunt so I don't care about targets. I don't hunt so I won't support hunters. Blah blah.

Yeah, you're all to blame.

It's time EVERYBODY looked past their nose and stuck together.
Who is it now? Isn't this joint a smattering of all generations?

A couple of observations I made at the time, 96. It was not just Aussie shooters versus our anti's/ government. It was Australia versus the UN, they rolled out fullscale and made an example of us. The yanks were flying in protesters by the plane load, left wing billionaires from a dozen countries lined up all the way across the pacific to pressure everything from our media( which they owned realistically), electorals, universities, the whole kit and kaboodle.

The contract protesters would be told which constituents were pro gun and they were going door to door pretending to represent them and acting drunk and belligerant, there were death threats and blokes kids got visits at school too from shady characters. This was in all major cities btw. The funding behind it musy have been a billion bucks, who knows.

It seemed surreal at the time but all too common now with contract groups like Antifa, BLM etc using the same tactics. For the record some blokes did did fight, people seem to forget they wanted ALL guns, however through a thousand different meetings, counter protests, farmers getting involved, ground was won back.

[Wapiti]

The UN had been putting pressure on any country they could at the time, and still do, on the possession and use of what they call "small arms".
When the reasoning for such is explored, it is not a secret that it is mostly about being control - but what Australians seem to forget that the government is there to represent our views, amongst the obvious. NOT do some unelected bodies world domination fantasies.
Despite all the reasons given why we now, what I call, suffer under these circumstances, we could've prevented them.
At worst, had to accept some things definitely helpful negotiation-wise, such as secure storage within reason, and perhaps "genuine need", which I definitely know could be fairly applied without unfairly affecting any of us.

For example, their bullsh*t of categories and different action types on a scale of difficulty on some perverse ideals designed to basically rank users against proof of need, and against each other. Completely unnecessary and should be the first thing to go.
And if you need proof that the above causes jealousy and divides us, you need to get out more.
Perfectly thought out to pit us against one another and make excuses to separate us, and this is just one of the restrictions designed to do this. A look through the pages of this forum shows this as obvious.

How many protestors, shooters and sportspeople. and their families, could have stood up and said "NO" if the MYTH that Aussies won't be screwed over was actually true?
500,000? The country could've been shut down.
There was NO WAY that collectively the people could've been resisted on this without complete civil unrest. And for those who reckon that this is ridiculous, it is, and it wouldn't have happened.
This is why I used the strong words like Aussies "sit down to p*ss", because the Aussie rebel myth is just garbage, and the weak, soft handed flaccid university-only educated politicians can rely on this, can't they?

So this argument, and the belittling of both sides here by the very attitudes that find us in this position right now by our supposed "peers", is counterproductive and disappointing. The fact is, this could've been prevented if people actually stood up for themselves. Absolutely no question.

I know my views, strong to some, offend some people. But I refuse to be held back by the inabilities and standards of others. What's disappointing to me is, ultimately their influence affects my world.

[mickb]

Part of the problem too mate is gunowners are 'anti' as we used to say in plenty of other ways, most people are. anti being anti general freedoms or if you prefer pro censorship, pro cancel, pro-safety-oversight etc. One bloke wants guns gone, but happy not to have eperbs mandatory, another bloke loves guns but thinks pitbulls should be banned. etc etc. For example you or I could probably get into a heated debate on a range of freedom related subjects. Did you believe in Covid or get the jabs, I didnt. Just an example there, not a new debate

When the gun arguments were going on in 96 a bloke I know who was at the forefront, Mike Mcguire, had a debate with Rebecca Peters of gun control fame, who was saying to him that gunowners are going to accept the laws in the end. Mike challenged her as to why they would accept Anti sentiments. She replied 'Because gunowners are just anti's who happen to own guns" I asked him what he said back to her. He said there was nothing he could say, she was right.

[on_one_wheel]

Wapiti, dwelling on the past achieves nothing.
We know and what we've lost, what we have left to loose.

I was taught not to complain unless I had a solution to the problem.

What do you think the solution is?

[bigrich]

Wapiti, dwelling on the past achieves nothing.
We know and what we've lost, what we have left to loose.

I was taught not to complain unless I had a solution to the problem.

What do you think the solution is?

I agree. This topic has turned sour, blaming various people, generations for everything from housing to where we’re at with gun laws. I think we need to stop being divisive and move forward. Use the lessons of the past to not repeat past mistakes.
JMHO

[Bugman]

Wapiti, dwelling on the past achieves nothing.
We know and what we've lost, what we have left to loose.

I was taught not to complain unless I had a solution to the problem.

What do you think the solution is?

I agree. This topic has turned sour, blaming various people, generations for everything from housing to where we’re at with gun laws. I think we need to stop being divisive and move forward. Use the lessons of the past to not repeat past mistakes.
JMHO

Yes. Totally agree. Just move on.

[Wyliecoyote]

The one thing that didn't help back then is those that ranted and raved whilst being members of associations that then left said associations in a 'Ill show them" manner is exactly the people we don't want doing our negotiating. Instead of pulling together we fragmented, some sold up, others never came back, but the end result is the anti gunners had achieved their goal of divide and conquer. Sending emails as an individual instead of a solid block like the SSAA that has over 300k members only helps those plotting against us where to adjust gerrymanders. The long game is a block group of memberships, not individuals scattered across the country that fades into the white noise.
While i personally know of the failings of the SSAA and NRAA, i also know it would be a lot worse without their national support.

[on_one_wheel]

It's also worth remembering that at the time (96) the Vietnam war was still clearly remembered by the majority of firearms owners in Australia.
The SKK in the closest didn't give many people warm fuzzy vibes, in their minds they were doing the right thing.

[Oldbloke]

The one thing that didn't help back then is those that ranted and raved whilst being members of associations that then left said associations in a 'Ill show them" manner is exactly the people we don't want doing our negotiating. Instead of pulling together we fragmented, some sold up, others never came back, but the end result is the anti gunners had achieved their goal of divide and conquer. Sending emails as an individual instead of a solid block like the SSAA that has over 300k members only helps those plotting against us where to adjust gerrymanders. The long game is a block group of memberships, not individuals scattered across the country that fades into the white noise.
While i personally know of the failings of the SSAA and NRAA, i also know it would be a lot worse without their national support.

Nailed it!

[Oldbloke]

Did you blokes know there will be a rally in Perth . 8th February I think.

Personally think it's a good thing. (Some don't) But they better behave themselves. No nutters.

[wanneroo]

Much has changed in 30 years in regards to communication. I think today with things like X around, it's harder for the left to peddle their emotional hysteria when autistic nerds can then dump a bunch of facts, video and audio evidence and other stuff on them. Increasingly even the left here in the USA is seeing pursuing "gun control" is a waste of time as people have figured out that barrel length and magazine size is not the problem, it's a people and crime problem. As we just saw in New Orleans when an ISIS terrorist used an electric pick up truck to kill 10 people and planned to kill more with homemade explosives. No gun law was stopping that.

Keep in mind here in the USA 30 years ago the gun industry was nothing what it is now. It was on it's hind foot with an "assault rifle" ban in place. Democrats had controlled the Congress and Senate for the most part of 60 years and Republicans had only just started making gains. I think people started to get more involved politically and we turned things around.

[bigrich]

The one thing that didn't help back then is those that ranted and raved whilst being members of associations that then left said associations in a 'Ill show them" manner is exactly the people we don't want doing our negotiating. Instead of pulling together we fragmented, some sold up, others never came back, but the end result is the anti gunners had achieved their goal of divide and conquer. Sending emails as an individual instead of a solid block like the SSAA that has over 300k members only helps those plotting against us where to adjust gerrymanders. The long game is a block group of memberships, not individuals scattered across the country that fades into the white noise.
While i personally know of the failings of the SSAA and NRAA, i also know it would be a lot worse without their national support.

Exactly. The mindset of individuals and our representatives has to change and shooting associations have to change. Shooters union is much more openly political and trying to rally shooters than ssaa. I’m a member of both and the firearms industry has to come on board as well.

[Wapiti]

Wapiti, dwelling on the past achieves nothing.
We know and what we've lost, what we have left to loose.

I was taught not to complain unless I had a solution to the problem.

What do you think the solution is?

Hey, all I've been saying, right the way along is that yes my generation, whatever you call it, WAS to blame because we collectively didn't stand up. I for one don't have my head stuck in the sand, nor am I offended when others talk about it.
If we recognise that and remember to learn from these mistakes, we must try not to repeat them.

We can blame social media for today's ills (whilst we congregate here and do the same thing - deny and blame), today's generation, who cares. What's important now though?

Someone asked, basically if I'm such a smart-arse what would I do about it?
What I've been saying all along here is to contact your associations, tell them you want more political action, identify what you want and stop taking it.
Please read back on what I've written for all the detail.

I dont need to come on here and offend the easily offended, I'm in a situation where I've got it pretty good, can get everything I want and won't let others hold me back. In my position, I'll be the last to lose my firearms (unless I do something dumb), in fact, I'll probably be in a nursing home by then. So why give a sh*t about others?
But if I can gee up the quiet ones here, the ones who won't bend over and take it, great. The ones who just want to complain about their lot, whilst on the same hand, do nothing, too bad for your future.
Enough of this roundabout. I'm sure you've all got a plan.