Anchors for gun safes - new WA regulations

[animalpest]

So the new WA firearms regulations require a "compliant secure room" such as a shipping container to be anchored. The same applies to safes ("cabinets and containers).

The requirement is that the room or safe must be anchored by steel anchors "capable of withstanding 100 kN of force". Looking at sleeve anchors in concrete, the previous requirement was for an 8mm x 75mm (?) fastener, now it is one that must hold 100 kN.

Looking at fasteners, I see that a 1/2” (13mm) that is embedded 1-1/2” (37mm) will only withstand 1676 lb which only equates to a mere 7.4 kN pull out value. Even if you double the depth it is embedded, it will fall well short of required. Even 20mm Dynabolts are only one third of the strength thats required.

What on earth would be required to be "capable of withstanding 100 kN of force" then?
Nothing I have found will come anywhere near 100kN in an 100mm concrete floor.

[alexjones]

And most people will think F it and just turn in their licence because complying it is so arduous. Guns will be kept at the range in a communal safe and not in peoples homes which is what some people want.

[on_one_wheel]

22,500 lb
That's one way to ensure 90% of firearms owners won't comply

[stihl88]

This may help

Anchors.jpg (116.99 KiB) Viewed 5074 times

[on_one_wheel]

You won't find many 30mpa house slabs.

[stihl88]

You won't find many 30mpa house slabs.

Good point, they're typically between 20~25mpa and 100~200mm thick in which case one would likely have to pour their own footings/slab from the start, may as well go to higher MPa to reduce the specs even further if going to this trouble. Following is for 55MPa concrete, with a noticeable reduction in anchoring depth and edge distance. https://www.bunnings.com.au/dingo-20kg- ... e_p0760378

Anchoring 55MPa.jpg (120.1 KiB) Viewed 5042 times

[stihl88]

Looks like M16 might get you closest to the pin in 55MPa at 100kN, bonus is the M16 bolts appear to require less embedment depth than M20 bolts...

Anchoring 55MPa_M16Anchor.jpg (122.76 KiB) Viewed 5027 times

[on_one_wheel]

And imagine the excitement when you tell Chief Wiggum you have four M16's in the safe.

[stihl88]

And imagine the excitement when you tell Chief Wiggum you have four M16's in the safe.

Haha... in WA they'd send the Soggy's around.

[Wapiti]

There must be a spec for 25MPA to allow compliance with chemsets. Either the number required in a set dimensional area or an acceptable process.
If these people want to make laws that include specs, then the must provide an acceptable minimum process so people can comply.

The problem with shipping containers is a real one, a tilt tray can back up to one and pull it on. If the pulling force of the winch of the tilt-tray exceeds the anchor strength, it will be in and out in 15 minutes. Of course the truck has to be able to get to the container. 4 75nb stubs chemset into the concrete ao that they slip into the corner castings and cover the mounting points. Welding through the casting side holes will secure it from nearly any attack. It would be way easier to just show up with a good Hikoki 5" battery grinder, two batteries and a handful of 1mm skinnies.

[Wapiti]

You blokes are completely screwed. Whoever is making this sh*t up is positively evil.
You must all get onto your SSAA, tell these timid squeakers to seek support from and join with the farming organisations in WA (the farmers will be copping this insanity too) to throw this government into a state of fear.
And when/if the farmers march on these unflushable t*rds and where they suck their taxpayer blood, make sure the supposed 90,000 WA shooters turn up at the same time.
Or just hand your guns in.

[on_one_wheel]

Wapiti
You've made the mistake of believing WA is a democracy,
I'd wave a nazi flag or pitch a nazi salute in their general direction to make a point but apparently their both illegal.

[Wapiti]

Doesn't (and didn't) mean that it has to be so, as they're whinging, copping it pretty unfairly and some of us tried to tell them to join forces with like-affected groups and stand up. But they all (well, most) said, "we're just a minority, so there's no point". Sure, WA is a dictatorship, but the voters made it so.

I'm just saying, constructively, that if they don't now join together with the like-affected that won't take it up the ring, they should just take up golf. The sport of the oppressed and boring.

[geoff]

This has been a focus of mine as well. I have no idea what those with stud walls are going to do.

Some engineer is going to make a fortune selling details. How practicable they are going to be is another question entirely

[ballisticsenjoyer]

And imagine the excitement when you tell Chief Wiggum you have four M16's in the safe.

Haha... in WA they'd send the Soggy's around.

I laughed way to hard at that, good work 1wheel.

Stihl88 your dataset's are great.
Blows my mind we're actually talking about using such large anchors for a SAFE. INSIDE YOUR HOUSE.

A shipping container, I get the requirement for it to be some what Stationary.

But again, unless they ban portable angler grinders with cut off wheels...., straight through the side/top/whatever if they are motivated.....

[Wapiti]

This has been a focus of mine as well. I have no idea what those with stud walls are going to do.

Some engineer is going to make a fortune selling details. How practicable they are going to be is another question entirely

Nothing most likely. That's the plan.

Kill off your ability to comply with ridiculous rules, so they don't have to be accused of really banning guns. Which will have the same effect.

The socialist lefy plan of complete disarmament.

[geoff]

This has been a focus of mine as well. I have no idea what those with stud walls are going to do.

Some engineer is going to make a fortune selling details. How practicable they are going to be is another question entirely

Nothing most likely. That's the plan.

Kill off your ability to comply with ridiculous rules, so they don't have to be accused of really banning guns. Which will have the same effect.

The socialist lefy plan of complete disarmament.

Yeah unfortunately that is quite transparent

Were safes getting ripped out of the wall under the previous bolting arrangement? Doubtful

[alexjones]

Anyone here old enough to remember the implementation of secure storage was never about stopping criminals stealing them but just to stop kids getting them?

However over time this so called "spirit of the law" gets lost and they keep snowballing more and more regulations onto people.


They always start with something small that most people will say "oh that makes sense" then the snowballing continues.

[Wapiti]

This has been a focus of mine as well. I have no idea what those with stud walls are going to do.

Some engineer is going to make a fortune selling details. How practicable they are going to be is another question entirely

Nothing most likely. That's the plan.

Kill off your ability to comply with ridiculous rules, so they don't have to be accused of really banning guns. Which will have the same effect.

The socialist lefy plan of complete disarmament.

Yeah unfortunately that is quite transparent

Were safes getting ripped out of the wall under the previous bolting arrangement? Doubtful

A year or so ago, the Darling Downs (Qld) Police Command sent out an email about storage, pretty much insinuating that on-farm storage was of a concern.
It was said that thieves, quite organised low-lifes in utes with chains and straps were snatch-strapping safes out of sun rooms and sheds, and making off with them to be cut open elsewhere. Pretty much making huge damage in the process.
Also big on the list were quality quad bikes, no longer sold here because of nanny-laws, fuel and tools.
Whole containers were also being dragged onto tilt-trays and disappearing.

Weekender-types were storing their guns and toys on their leisure properties, so they didn't have to drag all their stuff with them when doing the Friday arvo city rat run to get away from the sh*t show.

Thieves noticed this, and immediately responded to the opportunities.

The

[Oldbloke]

Anyone here old enough to remember the implementation of secure storage was never about stopping criminals stealing them but just to stop kids getting them?

However over time this so called "spirit of the law" gets lost and they keep snowballing more and more regulations onto people.


They always start with something small that most people will say "oh that makes sense" then the snowballing continues.

I remember it very well.

Your right. Those requirements are totally stupid, designed to just make it difficult.
There will be zero proof that it's required due to past thefts.

[on_one_wheel]

I also remember the advertising campaign, a kid sitting on his parents bed inspecting the firearm he'd found in the wardrobe....

Think about the children.

Now that ratbag kid has grown up, he's pulling safes from houses with a pair of D9T bulldozers, that's why we'll soon need safes made from at least...
1m thick M60 grade concrete with 6 layers of 20mm high tensile reinforcing bar woven to 100mm x 100mm, and solid pilon footing base that extends to a depth no less than 3.5m in to suitable bedrock.

[alexjones]

This is why I refuse to support any form of gun control. Because of the endless snowballing.

I could get on board with a simple safe designed to stop kids from playing with them. However it just does not stop and they keep moving the goal post so I will never support a single gun law because it just never ends.

It did not end with the semi autos and it never will.

[stihl88]

What's next, transport to site via Armoured vehicle.

[Faedy]

NOIA now no longer ship to WA
We are rooted

[Oldbloke]

Speaking of NIOA.

BIG business always looks after big business.


https://www.thesaturdaypaper.com.au/new ... rs-son-law

[Wapiti]

And what's wrong with that? Absolutely jack s***.
Big business operating in Australia employs the people that produce products for both here and to sell abroad, in turn paying the wages of the people who actually produce to be able to buy the food, goods and housing that employs everybody else.

That article was pathetically anti-Nioa, anti-Trump and anti-capitalist.

[alexjones]

NIOA is Australia's biggest gun dealer. It is advantageous that they are friendly with the most powerful man on the planet(President of the USA).

I just wish they did more to use their influence to get Australia some freedoms back.

Elon has commented about tyranny in Australia during the scamdemic, so I hope NIOA somehow get onto Elon and he pumps money into freedom causes for us Australians.

I will buy a Tesla and a starlink just pump billions into a Australian freedom lobby please Elon.

[bumpy1976]

I wonder if they get away with this in WA, how long before the other states will soon follow?

[alexjones]

I wonder if they get away with this in WA, how long before the other states will soon follow?

Who knows when. However WA has always seemed to be different. So the other states might just implement the number of guns you can own and not much else.

Queensland still allows wooden safes for cat A,B and C guns and lets you ship a gun from anywhere inside Queensland to you your home which is good because you don't have to go to the dealer to pick up your new gun. The postman drops it off.

[alexjones]

Limiting the number of guns people can own to a set number goes against peoples humans rights and is a communist value of oppression.

Started with the number of guns you can own. Then they will tell you how many cars you can own. How many houses you can own and it will just keep continuing until you can only own one of everything.

It sets a bad precedent which like everything the government touches will snowball.