Bertram bullet availability

[Wapiti]

Does anyone know of a gunshop with an online store that lists Bertram bullets in stock?
Bertrams website is does not do that, merely says call for latest production runs etc and has a list of calibres but no weights, unless I'm missing something.
The Barn has always sold a whole triple shelf of great Bertram brass, even great stuff like 300 SAUM and RUM, and the bigger Weatherbys and British hunting greats. But not projectiles - a counter bloke there said they were too difficult to keep in stock...

A learned and experienced member here dropped me off some 150gn Bertram "protected point" style flat based .30 projies, which I haven't been able to load yet. If the come out OK I'd love to try some 180 or 200gn as well, love to support Aussie stuff if I can.
Protected-point style 130's would be great too, a-la Woodleighs.
I love Aussie Atomic-29 copper bullets, but cup & core bullets are always good performers on your average larger feral animals.

[mchughcb]

You find his number on Facebook and you might be able to order direct.

[Wapiti]

Thanks for the tip, appreciated, but I'm not at all intending to get familiar with Facebook, outside of Messenger to talk to friends and the Mrs remotely via wifi because it's all we have out here.
The wife uses it for the business elsewhere, but not me. She tells me "it's where everyone is now, get with the times"

[bigrich]

Thanks for the tip, appreciated, but I'm not at all intending to get familiar with Facebook, outside of Messenger to talk to friends and the Mrs remotely via wifi because it's all we have out here.
The wife uses it for the business elsewhere, but not me. She tells me "it's where everyone is now, get with the times"

I’m not on Facebook, except to check what’s going on with my local gun club. That’s their only way of posting range times and comps. I’ve contacted woodleigh directly via email and got a quick reply. Bertram would be the same surely, or a phone call as others suggested. Cheers

[mchughcb]

Contact - Bertram Bullets Co https://share.google/QHciuLi5BGzOyEYl7

[Damo300]

Thanks for the tip, appreciated, but I'm not at all intending to get familiar with Facebook, outside of Messenger to talk to friends and the Mrs remotely via wifi because it's all we have out here.
The wife uses it for the business elsewhere, but not me. She tells me "it's where everyone is now, get with the times"

I've never signed up to any social media, ever.
This forum and a fishing forum is my internerding, and the gunsales sites.
I love to try and stay in the 80s/90s.

[Fester]

The best procedure seems to be contacting him to get info on what's in stock and what he's making.

Then order it if it's available.

I would just get the socials, or email info, then a direct phone call order, if that's how he does things.
Someone may sell his stuff, but I don't buy it, so only know what I hear from others.

[Wapiti]

Contact - Bertram Bullets Co https://share.google/QHciuLi5BGzOyEYl7

Thanks for taking the time to put this up, CB. I've sent off a message on that form template.

And thanks to the rest of you for your input.
I'm going to have another go with Woodleighs too, for the .300 hunting rifles. This isn't for target stuff.
Looking forward to it.

[Wapiti]

Geeze it's difficult to get availabilities on Woodleighs too!
The stockists list is so out of date, it has gunshops still up that have been extinct for 10 years, like Qld Gun Exchange.
The closest I can get to someone who sends by post reliably and has a list is The Barn, but it lists 0 stock. A quick phone call with counter-staff on the end of the line said supply is always haphazard and unreliable.

But then, I've been waiting for nearly a year now for certain .338 Sierra projectiles to get to Aus to fill an order.

Niche businesses here in Aus have a bloody hard time with the political push to smash small businesses, but when you are popular I don't understand the lack of will to have a great online shop and listings... Bullets being non-dangerous items with no post restrictions.
Or is it just that hunting bullets are not popular enough with the latest crazes of long range, looks and appearances, and fickle buyers? Good on them, but maybe I'm too insulated from where shooting sports are going, and hunting suppliers are dwindling?

[Wapiti]

Mansfield Hunting and Fishing have a nice range, showing stock too, so problem solved for now for Woodleighs !
For those looking for hunting bullets and a mob that post.

[bladeracer]

When I need more Bertram Bullets I just call them.

If you had needed them last month I could have gone through Seymour and delivered them to you

[mchughcb]

Geeze it's difficult to get availabilities on Woodleighs too!
The stockists list is so out of date, it has gunshops still up that have been extinct for 10 years, like Qld Gun Exchange.
The closest I can get to someone who sends by post reliably and has a list is The Barn, but it lists 0 stock. A quick phone call with counter-staff on the end of the line said supply is always haphazard and unreliable.

But then, I've been waiting for nearly a year now for certain .338 Sierra projectiles to get to Aus to fill an order.

Niche businesses here in Aus have a bloody hard time with the political push to smash small businesses, but when you are popular I don't understand the lack of will to have a great online shop and listings... Bullets being non-dangerous items with no post restrictions.
Or is it just that hunting bullets are not popular enough with the latest crazes of long range, looks and appearances, and fickle buyers? Good on them, but maybe I'm too insulated from where shooting sports are going, and hunting suppliers are dwindling?

Ive had many drinks with Bruce and Geoff. They are small businesses. Yes they dont have online shops, but they generally sell through shops or door sales. If you buy in bulk with cash you can get some bargains.

[bigrich]

Geeze it's difficult to get availabilities on Woodleighs too!
The stockists list is so out of date, it has gunshops still up that have been extinct for 10 years, like Qld Gun Exchange.
The closest I can get to someone who sends by post reliably and has a list is The Barn, but it lists 0 stock. A quick phone call with counter-staff on the end of the line said supply is always haphazard and unreliable.

But then, I've been waiting for nearly a year now for certain .338 Sierra projectiles to get to Aus to fill an order.

Niche businesses here in Aus have a bloody hard time with the political push to smash small businesses, but when you are popular I don't understand the lack of will to have a great online shop and listings... Bullets being non-dangerous items with no post restrictions.
Or is it just that hunting bullets are not popular enough with the latest crazes of long range, looks and appearances, and fickle buyers? Good on them, but maybe I'm too insulated from where shooting sports are going, and hunting suppliers are dwindling?

if your quick , rebel gun works have woodleigh ,1 box of 150's , 3 boxes of 130's and 3 boxes of 165's . they have heavier projectiles in 30 cal , but i'm guessing that's not what your looking for . rebels website is usually pretty accurate on their stock , unlike the big C . cheers

[Wapiti]

Thanks Rich, I'll have a look!
Been pretty busy and sore and sorry preparing for a big event, I will check it out now.
Thank you for checking. Rebels are quick and considerate with their online store gear.

[Wapiti]

hey what do you reckon would be a good weight of bullet in the Woodleighs? Protected points.
I've got the 308 covered, with 150, but in 300's? Impact velocity of a few 2-300fps more?
Rich you have a lot of experience experimenting with this stuff. It's for on-foot hunting on larger pigs?


Edit: because of the strange predictive text changes upon posting

[Wapiti]

Holy crap, look at these!
For the 300 RUM...

Woodleigh.jpg (225.05 KiB) Viewed 133 times

There's also a great 6.5mm 160gn in the same design, would be terribly slow in the Manbun and may just pencil, but in the PRC? Would solve the match bullet craze that's available in factory ammo.
Imagine in a 6.5x55 !!!!!!
That beautiful Sako 90 Hunter in that great cartridge is calling me...

[bigrich]

hey what do you reckon would be a good weight of bullet in the Woodleighs? Protected points.
I've got the 308 covered, with 150, but in 300's? Impact velocity of a few 2-300fps more?
Rich you have a lot of experience experimenting with this stuff. It's for on-foot hunting on larger pigs?


Edit: because of the strange predictive text changes upon posting

well mate , i'm flattered you seeking my opinion . i'd be inclined to say 150's are a safe bet , but with the extra velocity of a win mag i reckon 165's might be the bee's knee's in terms of ballistic performance/energy dump . especially on larger pigs and larger game up to reds . i had a quick look at ADI load data , and i reckon a 165gn going 2900-3000fps would be devastating . i noticed a difference between the same projectiles out of a 308 to a 30-06 . not huge , but noticeable . IMHO ballistic performance is optimum with a 308 running 150's to a 30-06 with 165's due to relative bullet speed . but the 30-06/165gn combo is a good one . yeah , i'll double down , 165's in the win mag , hell yeah should be hammer of thor type stuff the variable is we have a lot of choice in projectiles these days . "soft" 165 speer boat tails , hornady sst's up to barnes copper . the woodleigh being what they are, should work well without blowing up or fragmentating. just really fast moving mushrooms let us know how you go. cheers

[Wapiti]

Thanks for the reply Big Rich, 165's would be a real hammer, would be easy to get 3000fps in the WM b ut I see that they have listed ones especially for 300WM, I guess to match the construction to the speed obtainable?
I know this from the 300RUM, it's great fun to use in the open areas, the whole experience, but on any boar with a shoulder shield the speed causes normal projectiles to blow up in the shield, no pencilling ever happens with this thing. First I tried 150gn Accubonds at 3500fps and they just blew up, even 165gn Accubonds were blowing up and I ended up with 180's but they are just on the edge. 200's were better but now, last time I bought 180's I paid $120 for a 50 piece box, that's stupid.
I also tried the Hornady Inter-Bond but they didn't shoot well at all when testing.
2217 seems to go well, but 2225 is something else, speed man.
Why the hell I never thought of Woodleighs before, I just gave myself an uppercut. I got sucked in by the marketing and the sleek boat-tail and white tips of the yank stuff.
So, 165's for the 300WM, 180's for the RUM?
Nobody's been able to get that big black and white boar that's fathering all the marauders in my exclusion fence areas. He actually dug out all the roots of a eucalypt and it fell over, just over the hill from the house. The rocks he pushed out are up to the size of a 20L oil drum.

[Wapiti]

So Mr.Rich, I just put in an order for 2 x 50pc boxes of 165's, and 2 x 50pc of the 180's meant for .300's from Rebels. Plus, another Ian Skennerton book, can't help myself.
Can't wait to try them, going to grab the Rum out too, and have some rock n rolling.
Plus, your donated Bertram 150's mate, for one of the Sako 308's.
I will update you Rich, with what the outcome is but along with the copper Atomic 29's, it'll be great just shooting Aussie bullets, wirth Aussie powder !

[mchughcb]

Holy crap, look at these!
For the 300 RUM...

Woodleigh.jpg

There's also a great 6.5mm 160gn in the same design, would be terribly slow in the Manbun and may just pencil, but in the PRC? Would solve the match bullet craze that's available in factory ammo.
Imagine in a 6.5x55 !!!!!!
That beautiful Sako 90 Hunter in that great cartridge is calling me...

My mate has been using the 240gr woodies in his 300 weatherby for many years. Super accurate and kills pigs.

[bigrich]

Thanks for the reply Big Rich, 165's would be a real hammer, would be easy to get 3000fps in the WM b ut I see that they have listed ones especially for 300WM, I guess to match the construction to the speed obtainable?
I know this from the 300RUM, it's great fun to use in the open areas, the whole experience, but on any boar with a shoulder shield the speed causes normal projectiles to blow up in the shield, no pencilling ever happens with this thing. First I tried 150gn Accubonds at 3500fps and they just blew up, even 165gn Accubonds were blowing up and I ended up with 180's but they are just on the edge. 200's were better but now, last time I bought 180's I paid $120 for a 50 piece box, that's stupid.
I also tried the Hornady Inter-Bond but they didn't shoot well at all when testing.
2217 seems to go well, but 2225 is something else, speed man.
Why the hell I never thought of Woodleighs before, I just gave myself an uppercut. I got sucked in by the marketing and the sleek boat-tail and white tips of the yank stuff.
So, 165's for the 300WM, 180's for the RUM?
Nobody's been able to get that big black and white boar that's fathering all the marauders in my exclusion fence areas. He actually dug out all the roots of a eucalypt and it fell over, just over the hill from the house. The rocks he pushed out are up to the size of a 20L oil drum.

no worries mate . from what you've said about bullet performance in your 300 win mag and tour 300 RUM , it only reinforces my opinions on tailoring the right bullet to relative speed for optimum performance . and yes, woodleigh bullets are tailored to specific calibre and their speeds in some calibres . the introduction of the 338 federal has been a good thing for bullet choice with regards to my 338-06 , as it gives me the choice of "soft" bullets for 338 fed velocity, or "hard" bullets for 338 win mag velocity for penetration on heavy game out of my 338-06 . woodleigh make specific bullets for 338 fed/338-06 and 338 win mag because of their different speeds . i contacted them regarding bullet choice and was advised to use 200gn PP bullets for the game i hunt . old mate who emailed me back (can't remember his name ) told me he had a 338-06 built years ago and was mighty impressed with it . this sort of recommendation reinforced my desire to build one . he shot everything from roo's to buff and reckoned with selecting the right woodleigh bullet it would do it all . sorry i'm digressing , but the example of bullets and ballistic performance in this calibre is a interesting one . perhaps contact Woodleigh and ask for advice ? the big thing about woodleigh is their bullets have been extensively feild tested . i also have heard sako and some yank ammo makers have or will be using woodleighs in premium factory ammo . great news for a good aussie company i'll continue with the 200 sst's in my 338-06 for the time being as i've got more testing on game to do , and i've still got about 65 projectiles to get through , but from what i've seen so far the accuracy and energy dump is impressive . might try the 200gn woodleigh once i've got through these .

okay , i was curious , made a fresh coffee , and jumped onto woodleigh website and made some discoveries . there's different listings for 30 cal bullets , due to differences in ogive design for the 300win mag regarding pressure regulation . the jackets are the same apparently , with optimum velocity listed as 2000fps to 2900fps . so a nice mild accurate load under the max speeds should see these bullets perform great . woodleigh is the first manufacturer i've heard of that makes a different ogive for the 300win mag . pretty thorough hey ? aussie ingenuity , just like a winged keel on a racing yacht . i'd probably email woodleigh for some advice anyway . no such thing as too much knowledge IMHO . cheers

[Wapiti]

Thanks Rich, good advice,
This ogive thing being different, new to me.
I suppose it's something the long range crowd get into, but I've never thought about that, I've just picked the most common projectiles used and marketed to do that kind of thing, and we just try and make it as practical as possible real-life wise as we see it - no uteload of tripods, clamps and all that stuff, not at all interested in those gizmos, we would simulate going to get to a target on foot with suitable rifle, bipod, pack and camo gear and hike to a hill and observe, range and shoot. After doing the load development, getting the velocities, putting out gongs at every 100 yards - and even 50 yards between from 500 or so - out to even 1500 to check against the programs (which were always completely wrong). That was what I bought the Sako TRG's for in .300 and .338L. As if we were going to go hunting at an unknown range, except not for animals. Day before, we'd set up 10" gong targets at a spot where lets say, objects would gather. But we'd do it completely without consideration to range or what cover we'd have, we'd work that out on the morning we set out. Real life stuff, not range type shooting. We found that the usual range-type shooters with everything set up were completely thrown off and could not get a first, even second shot hit without excuses. Walk? Carry a tripod? Can I take my uteload of gear? That's stupid, guys! All the talk about BC's was irrelevant, we got all our info from the shots taken, and comparing that to the apps, which were scarily incorrect. Then there was the wind. We knew, what we were simulating was a first round hit only...
But a terrible accident my mate had on his KTM 450, leaving him with lifelong affects from head injury, put a brake on that. We used to walk half a day around my place here, pack and rifle with water and gear on our backs. The way we felt it was the whole experience.
But I digress also, the bullets were what was popular to do that. The Matchking lines were the ones we could usually get reliably.

I might compose an email to Woodleigh, and ask what they reckon. Calibre, speed achieved and desired target?
At any rate, I've got these bullets coming and will see how they shoot first. That will take awhile with the stuff coming up for me in life.

It's becoming difficult to separate the type of shooting we do all the time here, the gear that is best at that, from just stopping for awhile and just using real hunting rifles and doing the real hunting thing, not the "shooting" aspect. That's a chore.

[Fester]

I would be interested in any info, and replies from Woodleigh as I only shoot the 140gr 6.5 projies in my 6.5x55.
You hear of some blokes getting good accuracy from some calibres, but they were definitely no target bullet for me.
I just stoked the load up a bit to get them grouping at around 1" or a bit more.

The yanks love them for what they do in terminal performance, and I found the same results.
Where my cup and cores, both factory Federals, and Game Kings loaded at about the same would stay in the fallow deer, admittedly, most were shot around 200yd ranges.

The Woodleigs would exit the deer, including a much bigger old buck at about 130 yd.
It is indeed a controlled expansion, as the exit wound was about thumb-sized, rather than a huge hole.
Much the same on a smaller doe at closer range.

I once asked a bloke who knows and shoots far more than me, and he said he would just use Hotcors to shoot critters in general, but take the Woodleigs out for that trophy of a lifetime; that makes real good sense to me.

I would buy 1 pack first, and develope a load, if it shoots well, buy the rest.

I am now shooting 140 Hotcores loaded up warm like the Woodeighs and a yearling buck at around 100yds was just devastated.
It was like the 6.5 was just too much gun.

I am a believer in an ideal weight of projectile for most cals, despite some being more versatile than others.
140gr is said to be ideal for the 7mm-08.
I think 120-130gr is likely to be the ideal for the 6.5 cals.

The Manbuns do shoot target 140s fine, and the BC is great for longer range, but terminal performance doesn't come into play when hitting steel plates. That Hrndy match ammo that shot so well for blokes was 147gr.
Loading those different-weight ELDMs, due to Cleaver's sales, I found that I did have to fine-tune to get the best from them.

[bigrich]

I am a believer in an ideal weight of projectile for most cals, despite some being more versatile than others.
140gr is said to be ideal for the 7mm-08.
I think 120-130gr is likely to be the ideal for the 6.5 cals.

The Manbuns do shoot target 140s fine, and the BC is great for longer range, but terminal performance doesn't come into play when hitting steel plates. That Hrndy match ammo that shot so well for blokes was 147gr.
Loading those different-weight ELDMs, due to Cleaver's sales, I found that I did have to fine-tune to get the best from them.

i reckon your spot on with this assessment. 7-08/7x57 do punch above their weight with 150's a little more than 140's , with better penetration and long range accuracy/energy retention . hand loaded with 140's their good on stuff under 80kg . i took a red with a front quartering shot with a 150 accubond at 2625fps at 180 meters out of a 7-08 T3, complete penetration with a 1" exit and lots of lung damage. that bullet weight and 160's follow trumps saying, "drill baby, drill"

my ideal bullet weights , 150's in 7x57 and 308, 165's out of 30-06 . 6.5x55 will do well with hand loaded 140sst's , but i think 130gn would've been better . the man bun seemed to perform better on game with 120 nosler bt's and lighter . my bread and butter these days is 150 sst's out of my 308 at 2750 fps . i'm trialling 150 game kings , but even on goat i didn't get a exit . i'll persevere with the loaded rounds i still have as this bullet is super accurate

[Wapiti]

Holy crap, look at these!
For the 300 RUM...

Woodleigh.jpg

There's also a great 6.5mm 160gn in the same design, would be terribly slow in the Manbun and may just pencil, but in the PRC? Would solve the match bullet craze that's available in factory ammo.
Imagine in a 6.5x55 !!!!!!
That beautiful Sako 90 Hunter in that great cartridge is calling me...

My mate has been using the 240gr woodies in his 300 weatherby for many years. Super accurate and kills pigs.

Forgetting all the reminiscing about toy guns unrelated to the topic and back to the Woodleighs and Aussie bullets,

Good info Mc.CB, I'm keen to try them in the Rum. Should do the same thing, if a little faster that the Weatherby is. But the sheer weight of the things, combined with the wicked speed for weight, should be great fun.
I have only loaded 240gn Matchkings in a different RUM, a super heavy John Giles made Stiller Predator actioned, Lilja bull barreled monster.
From memory I got 2850fps easy with 2225 powder, but I'm going to have fun with the 700 sporter I have, it's only 8lbs scoped with a 26" barrel, and no brake.
This is going to be a ball. I must remember not to crowd the scope, it's cut the eyebrows of two hunting mates and they won't shoot it again.

Issue is, I'm not sure where I got the loading info from, a quick look at the ADI site only lists up to 220gn with the RUM. In the US, Hodgdon calls it Retumbo I believe, so there will be some info there on their site.
I want to stay away from personalised crazy stuff some people post up online.

Fu*k it, I'm buying 50 to try.
This is about fun, and keeping the interest going, not looking for stuff that is "efficient, adequate, economical". Have some fun!

Edits: what is this predictive text doing to me, it's a conspiracy

[mchughcb]

I use betram bullets all the time from 285gr 9.3 to 580gr 500NE. They can be a bit tapered so it pays to crimp them with the Lee die.

Ive shot over a lot of sambar with the 220gr woodies in the 30-06. Ive shot more with 165gr ballistic tips. They both kill. Woodies do less damage, ballistic tips kill faster and ruin more meat.

[bigrich]

I use betram bullets all the time from 285gr 9.3 to 580gr 500NE. They can be a bit tapered so it pays to crimp them with the Lee die.

Ive shot over a lot of sambar with the 220gr woodies in the 30-06. Ive shot more with 165gr ballistic tips. They both kill. Woodies do less damage, ballistic tips kill faster and ruin more meat.

ain't that the truth . ballistic tips can generate impressive energy dump and damage , which drops game on the spot , but it's not that great if you want to eat what your shooting . from what i've read on USA forums , woodleighs behave the same as nosler partitions , forming a big classic mushroom without breaking up . woodleigh are a lot cheaper than partitions . dunno why partitions are still being sold in gun shops in oz as nobody can afford them .

your experience confirms my belief that the 30-06 is THE great calibre for flexibility on a variety of game . saw a hunter in the territory use 180 barnes on scrub bulls . with good shot placement very effective . when that load was used on big pigs it got 2 pigs at a time went clean through the first and took out the one behind it 30-06 , from mice to moose....

[Wapiti]

The big problem for me with the ballistic tips, or all tipped bullets when hunting, is that they can be very erratic especially when driven faster than average.

But I agree, at the end of the day, dead is dead and it's great to get input from experienced hunters.

On the killing of multiple animals, how many times has this happened to me too, even with the humble 308 and cup and core projectiles.
My wife will back that up, how many times has she said to me, or me to her, "what are you waiting for" and the answer will be - "No, there's a bloody 'xxxx' behind the one I'm taking and I don't want it down too". How true and skillful to consider that I reckon.
There have been a few times when culling roos on DM permit on newly fenced paddocks, that three kangaroos go down from a mob from bullet fragments from the target animal, with the ones behind either needing to be chased up or popped with a handgun. To me, that's not good and avoidable with a bit of thought. I always look now and will take a shot at something elsewhere in a mob. And that's with a humble 308 with 135gn hollowpoint Sierras.
Imagine the penetration power of a 240gn Weldcore from a 300RUM.

[Wapiti]

Back on the topic of Aussie stuff,
A reason I have purchased these 240gn Woodleighs, and the RUM, was to try them on scrub bulls.

A mate of mine helping me with fencing has some great opportunities with trouble from scrub bulls on his place down the road. The family has bought a neighbouring place where the owner has thrown in the towel, just can't afford to operate anymore.
The place had Brahman cattle, and in the last 15 years the place kind of got out of control and many cattle got over old fences and got up into the big scrubby hills there. The bulls have bred with cows up in there and have never been yarded, he reckons the bulls especially are mixed breed now and extremely aggressive. He was baled up by one when out doing box spotlighting recently.
He's offered me a go whenever I wish, but he's actually going to contact a hunting club and offer their services to have a go too, there's a cottage there and honestly, what a great opportunity for hunters. This hopefully doesn't end in grief with inexperienced wallys getting gored.

Would these heavy penetrating bullets be good for an 800kg obnoxiously aggressive bull?
Tell you what, and i don't want to bring up this Ballistic Tip thread-creep in again myself, but these bullets? A very poor choice.
Perhaps 220, 200gn even, Weldcores would be better? remembering the speed that the RUM has, even the Weatherby 300 below that.

I have no experience with this, has anyone here hunted scrub bulls seriously before? Maybe Buff, but remembering that these scrubbers are completely insane.