Red dots - are they relevant any more?

[Wapiti]

Recently I dragged out an old 30-30 I had that had a scout rail on it, and a red dot, with back-up Ghost Ring sights.
It was a Sig red dot, with the motion sensor which was a good feature. I also have a few others in the stash, including vortex ones, of different models.
I never took to the thing, I mean it worked well, but when looking through it, the sight itself was just a black blob with a hole in it with a little dot. Or doughnut, or both. I wondered what the craze was of these things, and yeah I could take fast shots. Sort of. But far out, the field of view was obscured badly.

Here is a pic of the damn thing. it came with a pair of stilts so it could be used on an AR style straight-line rifle, but on a normal rifle it's too high so I tossed that over my left shoulder. But anyone with a nice rifle like a Wedgetail will need it to get high enough to see through it.

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It was only when putting a reflex sight (a Leupold Delta-Point) on a pistol so it could be used for longer shots accurately when around the farm, I noticed how small these things are, how tough they are (ones designed to military use with a steel guard at least), and that they did not have the awful black blob surrounding such a narrow field or view - like the red-dots I possessed.
I went as far as to go and look at some expensive Aimpoints down at a big gunshop, but same thing, big field of view obscuring blob with hole in it with a dot.

So my question is, why do these things still exist, when "reflex sights" do the same thing, smaller, so light they don't even matter, are tough as nails, and have the same features. Without the big black blob taking your field of view?
Anyone comparing the two things together will see the huge difference here.
This is a new model of reflex O-Sight, from Olight, I haven't fitted it yet, but it's got some amazing features too that others do not.

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And here's the comparison of the two, again, why bother with those red dots? What do they offer?

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You can't really get the comparison between the two types here until you have them on a rifle or shotgun, when you do it is enormous.
My wife has a tiny green-dot reflex sight on her shorty 16" Magazine-fed Buckmaster for around the house when I'm at the other place, and it makes the old tube-type red dots seem ridiculous.

So what does the red dot offer today, and why would they be any kind of better than the incredibly small yet super-fast bomb-proof professional reflex sights?

[mchughcb]

I use both. The aimpoint can be wound down quickly with 2 moa dot when im shooting at 100m with the 416 or 500NE. The adjustment for windage and elevation is more precise. Using the burriss fast fire on the 30-06 for hound hunting keeps weight down and I don't mind it either.

[bigrich]

i don't own either , but have had the opportunity to plink with the 2 different types . a mate of mine has a reflex sight set up on a custom winchester 92 in 32-20 , and it was a joy to use . my old gunsmith mate reckons scout scopes and red dots are "like trying to aim through a keyhole..."

horses for courses i guess , but i like a good field of vision with optics when i'm hunting

[Wapiti]

i don't own either , but have had the opportunity to plink with the 2 different types . a mate of mine has a reflex sight set up on a custom winchester 92 in 32-20 , and it was a joy to use . my old gunsmith mate reckons scout scopes and red dots are "like trying to aim through a keyhole..."

horses for courses i guess , but i like a good field of vision with optics when i'm hunting

Yes, that's what I reckon it's like, what a cheeky description! But one that's bloody true, especially when comparing these to a reflex sight.
Is it just that the reflex sight is a newer, lighter, more unobtrusive way of doing things?

[Wapiti]

I use both. The aimpoint can be wound down quickly with 2 moa dot when im shooting at 100m with the 416 or 500NE. The adjustment for windage and elevation is more precise. Using the burriss fast fire on the 30-06 for hound hunting keeps weight down and I don't mind it either.

Appreciate the input CB. I envy your rifle/cartridge choices, must be a blast and great fun. Especially the rifles so chambered.

I will say though, and I'm hoping for others input, that having to look through the "keyhole" as Rich puts it, does force your eye to quickly find the red reticle, because it makes you have to line up looking through it when you face is on the stock.

The reflex however, it can take a bit of practice finding the reticle in the middle of nowhere, but once you get used to it, it's fast and natural. Not at first though, I will admit. I think Rich will remember that.
I'm used to it and it has made my shorter than normal 9mm pistol extremely accurate for culling shots, for fast stuff like an obnoxious animal I have ignored it.

I dunno, to some it might be a strange discussion, but it's super interesting hearing others point of view because our circumstances can be so different.

[bigrich]

i don't own either , but have had the opportunity to plink with the 2 different types . a mate of mine has a reflex sight set up on a custom winchester 92 in 32-20 , and it was a joy to use . my old gunsmith mate reckons scout scopes and red dots are "like trying to aim through a keyhole..."

horses for courses i guess , but i like a good field of vision with optics when i'm hunting

Yes, that's what I reckon it's like, what a cheeky description! But one that's bloody true, especially when comparing these to a reflex sight.
Is it just that the reflex sight is a newer, lighter, more unobtrusive way of doing things?

reflex sight unobtrusive to field of vision , absolutely . the outer frame just became a thin , furry , hardly noticeable, slight fuzz , like a thin peep sight . on a rifle and set up correctly , i had no problem getting the little red dot in vision due to cheek weld . this was the case with old mate's 92 winnie . i imagine on a pistol it takes a bit more practice and familiarity

after using my mate's 32-20 , if i ever set up a lever rifle for scrub hunting a reflex sight is my first choice . but that's me

[Fester]

It looks like the reflex type can also eliminate the problem I have with a normal-sized, old-style red dot, which wrecks the cheek weld.
A shotty needs a good fit, but mine's a banned one, so there's no point worrying about sights now.

The red dot is the smaller-sized Bushnell one, maybe made for pistols.
It still gives a half-decent cheek weld, but the dot gets near invisible in bright sunlight.

[bigpete]

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I used to absolutely love my Konus reflex sight on my model 70 featherweight in 358w. The iron sights were really crap,and I didn't really like having a scope on it. The only issue I have with ANY red dot style sight is the astigmatism in my eyes causes the dot to flare. Still worked more than fine at the ranges I shot,and I shot these 2 goats inside of 3 seconds of each other at around 40m. Just whack the dot on,boom,work bolt,boom,2 dead goats

[Wapiti]

Hey that looks awesome BigPete.
Nice rifle, looks like one that belongs to a bloke who gets outside a bit...
Any reason you sat it on the rear bridge, instead of further up the front on the receiver ring?

I just ask because, around the traps the scuttlebutt is to mount it further forward, even on a scout rail if there was one. I wonder why, I think the way you have it mounted might be better.

[bigpete]

Thats just where I wanted it for some reason. People used to say it should have been on the front but it didn't seem to matter much to me

[Wapiti]

I bet it's bloody fast to get a bead like that.

[bigpete]

It absolutely was.