List of dirty Ammo

[Die Judicii]

The recent topic regarding barrel fouling and possible causes (Centerfire rifles, "Barrel bore cleaning") has prompted this post.
The resultant discussion on PPU Ammunition as being very dirty is a good starting point.

Maybe we could compile a list of ammunition that is considered "dirty" and which presents the need for EXTRA diligence in cleaning.

So,,,,, We start off with PPU,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

[bigrich]

i don't shoot factory ammo much , besides 22LR . PPU has always been horrendously dirty burning , i reckon it's key ingredient is coal or diesel . or maybe both

[Wapiti]

Never found PPU ever dirty, it's all BS and an excuse for poor procedures, cleaning product choice or technique. Shot 223, 243 and 308 by the case, and even with my slack cleaning procedures, every few months or so, have never seen rust or excess carbon, copper whatever. Dream on.
I won't be surprised if someone jumps in and says they have, but then I'll know what rating to give any further advice from that person.

Another thing that's BS is the rubbish that 2205 is "dirty".
WTF? Shot it for years in a 357 and even more in full-power loads in a 44 magnum farm handgun, and every time I hear it I ask for an explanation why and all I get is all the repeat internet and passed down scuttlebutt "Granddads mates cousins' wifes brother-in-law reckons it is"


Some powders seem to be generate more black patches when cleaning guns between group testing, I seem to remember 748 and 760 doing that, but it's only another solvent-wetted patch and it's all gone. Big deal.

[Tinker]

2205 is "dirty" in my .310 cadet, lots of fouling and unburnt powder, but it cleans up very easily. By comparison the 2205 burns clean as a whistle in my 22 Hornet.
I've never found PPU ammo "dirty", and the brass is excellent for reloading (especially 303).
Ex military 303 ammo is usually corrosive, and barrels are best cleaned by pouring hot water down them from the breech end to remove the corrosive salts.

[No1Mk3]

I've shot PPU in everything from 32ACP to 8x57, 9 handgun and 12 rifle calibers and i haven't found it to be any worse than most other brands, but I've never used their rimfire ammo, the Highland brand which used PPU for their centrefire got their rimfire from Armscor. I can't actually recall anything centrefire I though particularly dirty. I find among rimfire that some brands can be quite dirty but even then it depends on what I'm shooting it in and amongst the same brand their Subs may be dirtier than their HV.

[Wapiti]

2205 is "dirty" in my .310 cadet, lots of fouling and unburnt powder, but it cleans up very easily. By comparison the 2205 burns clean as a whistle in my 22 Hornet.
I've never found PPU ammo "dirty", and the brass is excellent for reloading (especially 303).
Ex military 303 ammo is usually corrosive, and barrels are best cleaned by pouring hot water down them from the breech end to remove the corrosive salts.

Hey Tinker, regarding the unburned powder in the .310, do you think that might be due to a lighter load?
I ask because, as you have found, in the Hornet it's clean.
I have found this before with a few powders, when mucking about trying to make light loads to go subsonic and there was quite a mess. A mess that wasn't there with loads from the mid to high side from the ADI reloading manual. This was with 2206H, BTW.

Over the years, I have seen a lot of rubbishing on PPU ammo, which I don't understand at all because that's not what I found.
What I DID find was that it can be pretty fast... scarily quick.
The PPU I bought in 338 Lapua with the 250gn match HP bullet clocked over 3000fps in my rifle, 150 fps more than I can get with any ADI powder.
And the 308 hits like a hammer.

[bigrich]

2205 is "dirty" in my .310 cadet, lots of fouling and unburnt powder, but it cleans up very easily. By comparison the 2205 burns clean as a whistle in my 22 Hornet.
I've never found PPU ammo "dirty", and the brass is excellent for reloading (especially 303).
Ex military 303 ammo is usually corrosive, and barrels are best cleaned by pouring hot water down them from the breech end to remove the corrosive salts.

Hey Tinker, regarding the unburned powder in the .310, do you think that might be due to a lighter load?
I ask because, as you have found, in the Hornet it's clean.
I have found this before with a few powders, when mucking about trying to make light loads to go subsonic and there was quite a mess. A mess that wasn't there with loads from the mid to high side from the ADI reloading manual. This was with 2206H, BTW.

Over the years, I have seen a lot of rubbishing on PPU ammo, which I don't understand at all because that's not what I found.
What I DID find was that it can be pretty fast... scarily quick.
The PPU I bought in 338 Lapua with the 250gn match HP bullet clocked over 3000fps in my rifle, 150 fps more than I can get with any ADI powder.
And the 308 hits like a hammer.

european ammo in general is loaded hotter than american made ammo for older calibres like 6.5x55, 7x57 , ect , because the yanks "lawyer-ise" everything regarding old guns blowing up . never heard of a mauser 96 exploding , but yanks factor in getting sued if such a thing did happen and load to lower pressures than the european ammo. compared to my handloads PPU is dirty . this has been my experience with their 22 hornet , 7x57 and 6.5x55 ammo . the amount of coal dust i've had to patch out is quite noticeable . i still have a 7x57 case to show you that's got a oversized rim , won't fit a standard shell holder and bent the extractor on my MK1 ruger . for some i'm sure PPU works great , but i'll decline thanks . i've used winchester deer season factory ammo in a 270 and 308 and found it quite accurate , and patched out about the same as my hand loads in terms of "dirtiness" . barrel length can have a lot to do with powder residue , as well as the burn speed of the powder naturally . i've switched from BM2 to 2206h in my 223 tikka a year ago , and found near max loads of 2206h burn cleaner in this rifle than the faster BM2 . go figure . as far as ammo being dirty , i think it's relevant to barrel length and how hot your loading influencing the burn rate more than anything

[Damo300]

To be fair, I've never had a PPU round group well in any of my rifles.
This is the reason I don't rate it as factory ammo, but the brass is great.

I also notice a black sealant used in PPU to seal the pill in the neck. This was discussed in another thread and I'm told this is for the wetter climates. Another reason I don't shoot it from the box. Over time, this sealant cannot be beneficial to the firearm. I do not have first hand evidence that it is in fact detrimental to the firearm, OCD just likes to clean it off first. Rules it out of the equation should any fouling occure.


Reasons PPU is rubbished on imo....
It's cheaper.
Box is smaller than the other brands.
Flimsy box and cartridge dividers.
The box doesn't have fancy colourful animal pictures.
Starts with P.
Status quo says so.


Sellier and bellot in my 30/30 is "smelly" and takes a while to clean the rifle afterwards.
Again, I pull all my factory stuff and just go for the brass. No sealant in them like PPU though.

[bigrich]

To be fair, I've never had a PPU round group well in any of my rifles.
This is the reason I don't rate it as factory ammo, but the brass is great.

I also notice a black sealant used in PPU to seal the pill in the neck. This was discussed in another thread and I'm told this is for the wetter climates. Another reason I don't shoot it from the box. Over time, this sealant cannot be beneficial to the firearm. I do not have first hand evidence that it is in fact detrimental to the firearm, OCD just likes to clean it off first. Rules it out of the equation should any fouling occure.


Reasons PPU is rubbished on imo....
It's cheaper.
Box is smaller than the other brands.
Flimsy box and cartridge dividers.
The box doesn't have fancy colourful animal pictures.
Starts with P.
Status quo says so.


Sellier and bellot in my 30/30 is "smelly" and takes a while to clean the rifle afterwards.
Again, I pull all my factory stuff and just go for the brass. No sealant in them like PPU though.

morning damo , your up early too mate status quo , "wok'n'woll" mate

if people are content to use PPU good for them . i've had negative experiences at times myself . i've had S&B brass with primer flash holes off centre which resulted in snapped decapping pin in my sizing die . i've had 6.5x55 and 22 hornet brass with this issue . easy to see with the naked eye too

[Damo300]

To be fair, I've never had a PPU round group well in any of my rifles.
This is the reason I don't rate it as factory ammo, but the brass is great.

I also notice a black sealant used in PPU to seal the pill in the neck. This was discussed in another thread and I'm told this is for the wetter climates. Another reason I don't shoot it from the box. Over time, this sealant cannot be beneficial to the firearm. I do not have first hand evidence that it is in fact detrimental to the firearm, OCD just likes to clean it off first. Rules it out of the equation should any fouling occure.


Reasons PPU is rubbished on imo....
It's cheaper.
Box is smaller than the other brands.
Flimsy box and cartridge dividers.
The box doesn't have fancy colourful animal pictures.
Starts with P.
Status quo says so.


Sellier and bellot in my 30/30 is "smelly" and takes a while to clean the rifle afterwards.
Again, I pull all my factory stuff and just go for the brass. No sealant in them like PPU though.

morning damo , your up early too mate status quo , "wok'n'woll" mate

if people are content to use PPU good for them . i've had negative experiences at times myself . i've had S&B brass with primer flash holes off centre which resulted in snapped decapping pin in my sizing die . i've had 6.5x55 and 22 hornet brass with this issue . easy to see with the naked eye too

Top of the morning Rich.

Best time of the day.
Had willy the wagtail up this morning (there's no easy way to write that..haha). Gonna be a clear day.
Magpies, noisey minors, lorikeets, and the hint of light traffic in the background..haha....ahh the serenity.

[CJRBOLTGUN1]

Hornady Precision hunter, shoots great, but lots of filthy black soot left behind

[Wapiti]

Pointless being a brand snob. Or small minded.

As the experienced blokes know, no matter what brand or quality the ammo apparent (how do you determine that? Flash colourful box, pictures of game animals?) guns are different and some will love it, some will be indifferent, some will hate it.

Then there's the powders used, some will have dirty ball powder, some might be at a pressure in some barrels that doesn't all burn up so leaves residue, really all powders doo to a degree, so what. We clean our guns. Maybe.

Then there's the complaints about brass left afterwards, for reloading.
The fact that some of this cheap ammo, including S&B, PPU, Magtech, Winchester etc has cases that might have off-centre flash holes or some other issue, is not a cause to complain. This ammo is cheap and is cheap for a reason. It is not a reason to complain.
Those that do, well if you buy a hundred Lapua, Norma, Nosler, Alpha Munitions etc, well you have a reason to whinge if you find those issues with those. If not, just suck it up and be thankful.

As an example, I bought 223 PPU loaded ammo on special for cheaper than empty ADI or Remington empty brass, which is not what I consider premium stuff.
Or, 338 Lapua PPU loaded ammo for $39.90/10... which has a 250gn match bullet at over 3000fps and in the TRG shoots clusters... that's $400/100 for loaded ammo, whereas Lapua cases on special right now are $500/100 - just for brass.
So stop whinging about quality, you get what you pay for and the brass left gets up to 10 reloads. Complain? No.

[bigrich]

To be fair, I've never had a PPU round group well in any of my rifles.
This is the reason I don't rate it as factory ammo, but the brass is great.

I also notice a black sealant used in PPU to seal the pill in the neck. This was discussed in another thread and I'm told this is for the wetter climates. Another reason I don't shoot it from the box. Over time, this sealant cannot be beneficial to the firearm. I do not have first hand evidence that it is in fact detrimental to the firearm, OCD just likes to clean it off first. Rules it out of the equation should any fouling occure.


Reasons PPU is rubbished on imo....
It's cheaper.
Box is smaller than the other brands.
Flimsy box and cartridge dividers.
The box doesn't have fancy colourful animal pictures.
Starts with P.
Status quo says so.


Sellier and bellot in my 30/30 is "smelly" and takes a while to clean the rifle afterwards.
Again, I pull all my factory stuff and just go for the brass. No sealant in them like PPU though.

morning damo , your up early too mate status quo , "wok'n'woll" mate

if people are content to use PPU good for them . i've had negative experiences at times myself . i've had S&B brass with primer flash holes off centre which resulted in snapped decapping pin in my sizing die . i've had 6.5x55 and 22 hornet brass with this issue . easy to see with the naked eye too

Top of the morning Rich.

Best time of the day.
Had willy the wagtail up this morning (there's no easy way to write that..haha). Gonna be a clear day.
Magpies, noisey minors, lorikeets, and the hint of light traffic in the background..haha....ahh the serenity.

not clear where i am , overcast , spotty showers , and just had a small but noisy thunderstorm roll through . as for birds , i've been hand feeding my local magpie family for over 15 years . and boy , don't they get the sh!ts if i don't open the front door and give them breakfast
ah, the serenity alright

[bigrich]

Pointless being a brand snob. Or small minded.

As the experienced blokes know, no matter what brand or quality the ammo apparent (how do you determine that? Flash colourful box, pictures of game animals?) guns are different and some will love it, some will be indifferent, some will hate it.

Then there's the powders used, some will have dirty ball powder, some might be at a pressure in some barrels that doesn't all burn up so leaves residue, really all powders doo to a degree, so what. We clean our guns. Maybe.

Then there's the complaints about brass left afterwards, for reloading.
The fact that some of this cheap ammo, including S&B, PPU, Magtech, Winchester etc has cases that might have off-centre flash holes or some other issue, is not a cause to complain. This ammo is cheap and is cheap for a reason. It is not a reason to complain.
Those that do, well if you buy a hundred Lapua, Norma, Nosler, Alpha Munitions etc, well you have a reason to whinge if you find those issues with those. If not, just suck it up and be thankful.

As an example, I bought 223 PPU loaded ammo on special for cheaper than empty ADI or Remington empty brass, which is not what I consider premium stuff.
Or, 338 Lapua PPU loaded ammo for $39.90/10... which has a 250gn match bullet at over 3000fps and in the TRG shoots clusters... that's $400/100 for loaded ammo, whereas Lapua cases on special right now are $500/100 - just for brass.
So stop whinging about quality, you get what you pay for and the brass left gets up to 10 reloads. Complain? No.

never had a issue with ADI, lapua, norma , garden variety remington, or starline . if i'm snapping decapping pins in my sizing die , or bending a extractor in my rifle , well that's a valid complaint . which is why i think you get what you pay for . as for dirty bores , it's relevant to the application and what the consumer is comfortable with i guess . if your doing bulk culling , then cheap ammo is the go so long as it functions properly i guess . each to their own , i anneal my brass and reload, so i like the higher end product for this reason . but also i won't buy or build a quality rifle to cheap out on rifle brass . i'm OCD like that
JMHO

[Fester]

I have never shot a pack of PPU, I just reload for all my centerfires, and get the savings that way, used to anyways.

Some guns are just dirty like the shotguns and 22 mag.

I avoid Remington ammo as the 22lr ammo always seemed to leave a lot of unburned powder in the barrel.
Can't say I have noticed any other brands that do that; I've shot a lot of brands of 22 and shotty ammo.
Some ammo leaves more plastic in the clay gun barrels than others.
I buy that on value, and I'm avoiding any brand that fails, Minns will give me a refund on the slab of shotty ammo that locks up my gun action, unless we dispose of this govt first, then I will cop the price of the slab, and not give that shop any more profit.

Beware of any light-shooting 7.5 target shotgun loads, as I have had 2 bad slabs. They are using real thin brass, or metal material, and it doesn't do the job. 2 different brands that worked fine in the past.

[CJRBOLTGUN1]

Pointless being a brand snob. Or small minded.

As the experienced blokes know, no matter what brand or quality the ammo apparent (how do you determine that? Flash colourful box, pictures of game animals?) guns are different and some will love it, some will be indifferent, some will hate it.

Then there's the powders used, some will have dirty ball powder, some might be at a pressure in some barrels that doesn't all burn up so leaves residue, really all powders doo to a degree, so what. We clean our guns. Maybe.

Then there's the complaints about brass left afterwards, for reloading.
The fact that some of this cheap ammo, including S&B, PPU, Magtech, Winchester etc has cases that might have off-centre flash holes or some other issue, is not a cause to complain. This ammo is cheap and is cheap for a reason. It is not a reason to complain.
Those that do, well if you buy a hundred Lapua, Norma, Nosler, Alpha Munitions etc, well you have a reason to whinge if you find those issues with those. If not, just suck it up and be thankful.

As an example, I bought 223 PPU loaded ammo on special for cheaper than empty ADI or Remington empty brass, which is not what I consider premium stuff.
Or, 338 Lapua PPU loaded ammo for $39.90/10... which has a 250gn match bullet at over 3000fps and in the TRG shoots clusters... that's $400/100 for loaded ammo, whereas Lapua cases on special right now are $500/100 - just for brass.
So stop whinging about quality, you get what you pay for and the brass left gets up to 10 reloads. Complain? No.

Totally agree, you get what you pay for, but paying upwards of $5 a shot for the fancy glossy packet stuff and find it is the worst for carbon fouling does get frustrating

[Die Judicii]

Well I for one am breathing easier now after seeing a lot of you are saying PPU is mostly ok to good.
I was a bit worried after seeing the barrel corrosion (in the other thread) because back before prices sky rocketed, I bought a sh!tload of PPU.
In 3 differing calibers, but have not had the need to use any of it yet.
I was thinking,,, had I wasted my cash.