Myth about warnings & chances issued for failed inspections

[Lorgar]

This won't come as a shock for most I'm sure but thought I'd throw it out there anyway since I have the information straight from the horses mouth in this case.

I've read more than once on other forums people suggesting that if you fail a safe inspection you may/will be given an informal warning and/or a chance to fix the situation before another inspection is performed to make sure you've brought things up to standards. People seem happy to accept that as fact.

None of the claims I've read seemed to stem from personal experience either. Never seen a "I was given a chance..." only comments like "They would", "You should" etc.

The other day I had a brief chat with a member of the fuzz about safe inspections and queried if/why he had failed anyone for their storage. He tells me that the only time he's personally had cause to fail someone was when they had a locker (from a tradies ute) sitting on the floor in a shed without being bolted down. When asked why the owner told him he was renting and didn't want to damage the floor. The officer told him he couldn't leave them here like that so they were confiscated and the guy lost his license etc. He just picked the box up and put it in the back of the car proving the point.

He made the (obvious and fair) point that if he gave the guy a chance and someone broke in and stole them the next day and killed someone he'd be partly responsible and held to account as the higher powers would see he did the inspection and didn't do anything about it at the time. Same would go for his colleagues doing inspections.

He told me he always calls and makes an appointment before an inspection, as he did for me. He was very open with the fact he has no right to enter your property without your permission so can't spring surprise inspections on people or anything like that. Given the phone call, agreed appointment etc. ample warning was given.

So there it is... As I said, just posting in case anyone is maybe skirting the line as far as bolting their safe down or whatever the case may be and has in their mind a second chance might be given if this aren't quite 100%. Straight from the horses mouth...

[Noisydad]

Given that we've had these requirements 20 years- no one can say they weren't warned!

[Jack V]

It has always been the case any Police officer has the right to confiscate incorrectly stored firearms.

In this case it sounds like the owner was not prepared to remove the guns to a licensed dealer for storage until he fixed his home storage. A lot of these things can be avoided by acting in a more reasonable manner.

I feel he could apply to have his licence reinstated and guns returned if he showed proof of proper storage. The only technicality is that are the guns in storage when the owner is present and in control of the guns? In a court of law one could argue that the guns were not insecure at the time because the licensed owner was present and in charge of the guns.

The safe may have been illegal but the guns were still secure at the time. Might give a Magistrate some wiggle room to allow reinstatement of licence. If he still wants his licence he should get a lawyer that knows the firearms act.

[Baldrick314]

Going back about a decade my brother in law had a safe inspection soon after he moved house. His safe was a large, heavy thing but didn't quite make the 150kg mark. The coppers gave him 24 hours to fix it and came back to reinspect.

Now I'm sure that's the exception not the rule but it does sometimes happen that they'll give you a small amount of leeway if they can see you're doing the right thing in general.

[Bark]

The only technicality is that are the guns in storage when the owner is present and in control of the guns? In a court of law one could argue that the guns were not insecure at the time because the licensed owner was present and in charge of the guns.

The safe may have been illegal but the guns were still secure at the time.

I doubt that would fly.

If you're arguing they were secured by his presence, the prosecutor would just ask if he's ever left the house during the time he owned the guns. Obviously he would have and he's back to square one.

2c.

[Lorgar]

Going back about a decade my brother in law had a safe inspection soon after he moved house. His safe was a large, heavy thing but didn't quite make the 150kg mark. The coppers gave him 24 hours to fix it and came back to reinspect.

Now I'm sure that's the exception not the rule but it does sometimes happen that they'll give you a small amount of leeway if they can see you're doing the right thing in general.

Like you say, it's possible there are exceptions.

Off the top of my head I think it's Lokaway that make a 143kg safe? If you had one of those not secured maybe someone gives you a second change, on the other hand it would be completely within there powers not to and you'd have no recourse.

I um'd and ah'd over whether to post this or not for a bit. Seems obvious enough that if you don't secure your guns as legally required you'll lose them so why post it?

In the comments I'd read elsewhere though it was far from stressed that warnings might be an exception. There were no absolute guarantees made but the way things were said it was heavily implied that warnings and seconds chances were pretty standard practice and that you needn't really worry.

Not that I'd ever chance it and I'm sure most others wouldn't either, but a lot of new guys ask questions and take the answers of the more experienced shooters as truth. It only takes one bit of bad advice to get someone in trouble so figured I might as well.

Better safe than sorry is the mentality around here, right?

[Baldrick314]

Better safe than sorry is the mentality around here, right?

Absolutely mate. Wasn't trying to contradict you, but now you've heard one of these stories second hand instead of down the line of fifty blokes

[lole]

"It's true. I got told it by a guy on the internet who knew a guy who it happened to 10 years ago."

That is rock solid

[Lorgar]

Absolutely mate. Wasn't trying to contradict you

Yep I got that. No drama.

[Arth]

I've read more than once on other forums people suggesting that if you fail a safe inspection you may/will be given an informal warning and/or a chance to fix the situation before another inspection is performed to make sure you've brought things up to standards. People seem happy to accept that as fact.

There is always someone giving out bad (if not really, really bad) advice.

I think it was Jenna here got told by some local "if you decide to get a gun safe..." the alternative being don't get anything, hide them in the cupboard somewhere and don't worry about an inspection because it probably won't happy.

That's an extreme case and Jenna obviously had the common sense to call him an idiot and do the right thing.

There's always someone...

[Point223]

The simplest thing would be to follow to a T what the Firearms registry and the police stipulate in their website. PERIOD.

[Vati]

The simplest thing would be to follow to a T what the Firearms registry and the police stipulate in their website. PERIOD.

Do what it says in writing, always sound advice.

I guess some people convince themselves the other advice is good if it's less hassle who knows.

[headspace]

I don't have a big safe but it has 4 rifles in it and I followed the instructions to the letter. I even went down to the Police station to ask their opinion about the best place to install it. My LGS bloke showed me a pile of reloading gear that some bloke had up for sae because he lost it all. he had a rifle safe and a pistol safe and both were not bolted down. he lost some nice guns but he was stupid. We may not always like it, but the law is the law.
JD

[chacka]

We may not always like it, but the law is the law.

Yeah it's a waste of time bitching about it like some do.

Just do it and forget about it, relax.

[Odo]

I am a renter and both my safes are bolted down.
When it comes time to leave I will fix up the holes I made, or forfeit some money.
Either way I know I have complied. I keep a print out of the safe storage fact sheet for my state IN the safes.

[ex_reven]

I prefer to point people to the legislation rather than the police website/fact sheets.
Legislation is legislation, the police fact sheet is a piece of paper some random wrote up - and can be changed at any time without much notice.

The bottom line is, the police make it REALLY easy to get it right, and our safe storage requirements are fairly flexible on the most part.
There really is no excuse for getting it wrong.

[VICHunter]

The bottom line is, the police make it REALLY easy to get it right, and our safe storage requirements are fairly flexible on the most part.
There really is no excuse for getting it wrong.

I'll just comment for Victoria as I don't know the other states, but assume it's the same.

I've had a few, as have mates, and they've called a week before each inspection.

On top of that, they have no authority to enter your property without invitation. If a call was missed or not made or whatever and they knocked on the door unexpectedly you could still turn them away until a more suitable time for you.

Plenty of notice (and that's forgetting the fact you're supposed to have it right regardless of the inspections).

The guys that get all that, then just have a tool box sitting in the shed not bolted down.... Idiots. Plain and simple.

Every opportunity and warning to get it done before the inspection, they just can't be bothered is the truth.

[tarnagulla]

Right on, VICHunter. I know of one (former!) licence holder who was approached for an inspection, by two members of VicPol. He complained about a lack of notice - they said OK, we will come back in a week's time.

They did - and found his ammo storage unlocked, loose ammo on work benches, in drawers etc., and unbelievably, THREE unregistered longarms in his otherwise compliant safe!

And he still thought he had been treated harshly, when they seized the lot, and charged him with the appropriate range of offences, which the magistrate found proved. Loss of licence, firearms, etc., and still he whinged.

Lots of morons still out there apparently, and no amount of advice, warnings, or anything else will help them...

(Source: VicPol member involved )

[inspector]

They did - and found his ammo storage unlocked, loose ammo on work benches, in drawers etc., and unbelievably, THREE unregistered longarms in his otherwise compliant safe!

Bit off topic... Strictly speaking, unlocked ammo storage & loose ammo etc. presumably not a breech of anything while he's home? Because it's under his supervision or control, whatever. That's assuming no one else there wandering around with access who shouldn't have had it.

Not arguing for/against the guy but curious about that point.

Obviously he got done for the unregistered firearms, but do you know if they pressed for the ammo?

[RealNick]

They did - and found his ammo storage unlocked, loose ammo on work benches, in drawers etc., and unbelievably, THREE unregistered longarms in his otherwise compliant safe!

I'm not suggesting he should have hidden them or anything but seriously... How f***ing dumb can you be. He could (theoretically) have stuck them under the mattress and kept them out of sight before taking them to a dealer the next day and get them on the books.

Couldn't even be f***ed moving them from the safe to another room though?

"3 unregistered guns? The Police are cool right, they'll just turn a blind eye them them all. Screw it I'll just leave the guns there."

Yeah, right.

[agentzero]

Lots of morons still out there apparently, and no amount of advice, warnings, or anything else will help them...

You can't teach stupid.

Lots of people figure it out for themselves though.