My first Trail Boss Loads for 223rem

[brett1868]

Since the .257 Weatherby has been mentioned I'll share a load...

Sierra #1628 100Gr HPBT, CCI 250 Primer, 68Gr of AR2213SC seated to an OAL of 2.754" (0.001 off the rifling) using the #25 insert in the Hornady Comparator. Shoots 1/4MOA @100 with a measured 3328fps at the muzzle and absolutely devastates anything it hits. This is my favourite 100gr load for the Weatherby, I have 2 others for Hornady 75 & 117gr projectiles that deliver results but the Sierra's are easier to come by and a fraction cheaper.

If this is a pissing contest, I will join in, my 250AI loaded with a good charge of AR2209, CCI BR2 primers will push Berger 115grn VLD's seated 20 thou off the lands at around 3000-3100fps into tiny one hole groups at 100yds all day,

395gr custom VLD @ 3178Fps for .3 MOA, 5 shot 5" group at 1000M....cant wait to see how it shoots the 450Gr JHP's I just got. If velocity is king according to Mr Weatherby then velocity + mass has to be way cool

Pity I can't get Berger in .416 as they are a great projectile and no surprise you're getting single hole groups. I use the 185Gr Berger in my 300 Weatherby Magnum and managed a .25MOA group. Shame they are not more readily available though BRT and QA Store are a good source of pills.

How do the BR2 primers compare to the Federal 215M's? I haven't tried BR2's yet but I hear good things about them.

[Strikey]

Alright Brett, you win as you are probably burning more powder in one shot then I do in 5, , I have been using the CCI's for awhile now, started a few years ago in my .308 F Class rifle and they just seem to be more consistent so have stuck with them, only downside is if you are reading pressure signs by looking at the primer the CCI's don't flatten out easily, my experience anyhow. The Bergers are an excellent projectile, when you work out the results that you can achieve with them I think they are better value than some other offerings especially in .25 calibre with the limited choices of projectile types.

[Gwion]

Started out as a thread about downloading a 223rem for quieter shooting that out performs 22lr terminal result.....
Ends up being about shooting 416 barret out to 1000yards!

[brett1868]

My apologies for the sidejack...

We can get back to .223's now , This morning after visiting my 2 babies currently in storage in Magnum sports safe awaiting PTA's I wandered out to HPGS to buy some brass and primers. Ended up walking out with a Howa Mini Action Stainless Varmint .223 packaged rifle. I've been looking for a .223 for a while as a first centre fire for my son and this fits the requirements quite nicely.

Any recommendations on projectiles / powder / primers? I'm assuming it'll be similar to .204 and 22-250

[brett1868]

I meant to offer you yesterday the use of a Magneto Speed chronograph for a couple weeks if you like. Just pay the return postage to Sydney and share your load / result data

[Strikey]

Sorry about that ,Gwion, we got a bit carried away

Brett, I recently acquired a .223 from a fellow forum member as well with the idea that its a gentle calibre to introduce my young bloke to centrefires and it worked as he has claimed the rifle as his but I paid for it I may try some Trailboss loads at a later date but for now I am happy to feed it OSA Outback ammo with the 55grn Sierra Gamekings, shoots well under MOA and at $17 per 20 I am not in a hurry to reload

[brett1868]

This is the little Howa 223 I picked up this morning, short action 20" varmint S/S barrel on Hogue synthetic stock. Should be a perfect first centre fire for the young fella, after I sight it in, do some load development and shoot some rabbits with The trigger is fantastic, reasonably light and breaks very crisp with no hint of creep. Paid $880 which included, bases, rings and a Nikko Panamax 3-9x40 scope so a fairly reasonable price. Grabbed 200 rounds of ammo whose brand escapes me, packs of 20 rounds in a clear plastic shrink wrap type bag with no name. Was cheap enough and according to Justin at HPGS shoots well in this rifle. Might follow Gwion's lead and see if I can develop a light load for the boy, I have a baggie of 22 Hornet projectiles my cousin gave me so might give them a shot.

[bigfellascott]

I though you were getting the Mini Action Brett?

[brett1868]

I though you were getting the Mini Action Brett?

Dopey me, I did get the mini action but just typed the description I found with the pic...

This is the one I got but imagine it in stainless, I'm quite impressed so far. Will see how it shoots during the week.

[bigfellascott]

That's better - had me scratching the melon for a minute I look forward to hearing how it goes mate, I wonder how the ultra light version goes too.

[Gwion]

I meant to offer you yesterday the use of a Magneto Speed chronograph for a couple weeks if you like. Just pay the return postage to Sydney and share your load / result data

Mate, that would be very generous of you and much appreciated! I'd lov to get some solid data on my loads.

As for general 223rem; i am no expert but have developed a couple of loads that shoot pretty good. Best so far has given a reliable <0.4moa (pretty good for a relative beginner, like me). I started with Benchmark 2 but ended up with BM8208 and found this to give me better consistency with 50gn hornady bullets (Vmax/Zmax both about the same accuracy in my rifle). Now that i've gone to these custom made 40gn bullets (for longer MBR pest control shooting on light bodied animals) i am getting a lot of muzzle flash with the BM8208 that i don't recall getting previously. I am about to trial AR2207 for a faster burn in my short barrel (18") and eliminate the muzzle flash.

[Gwion]

Strikey, this OSA ammo seems to be pretty bloody good and a great price.

Those dies you sent me have been a great saviour in getting the 7-08 up and running. Thanks a heap! I'm looking at getting a micrometer seating head for it, as i believe they are available.

[Strikey]

Only too happy to help,Gwion, I am about to try a couple of hundred OSA 223 on some roos very shortly as I am currently on a Farmer Assist job out near Longreach

[brett1868]

Checked the ammo I bought and it's 2006 OSA 55Gr BlitzKing using ADI brass and powder. I usually shoot Tuesday nights but I have a meeting with my solicitor and a QC that can't be missed. I'll try and hit the range tomorrow night and see how they perform and I'll get some chronograph data as a base to compare Gwion's numbers against.

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[brett1868]

Made it to the range this afternoon and put 30 rounds through the Howa 223 Mini Action. Below is the chronograph series summary followed by he groups. First 2 groups were @ 25M so I could zero the scope, 3 & 4 were @ 50M. I removed the bayonet sensor and shot 2 more groups of 5 with the best being the 5th group. I've got the chronograph packed up and Gwion should hopefully have it by Thursday. Will be interesting to see how the lighter loads compare for velocity & accuracy.

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Series 1

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Series 2

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Series 3

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Series 4

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Best group

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Howa 1500 Mini Action .223

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[Gwion]

Looking good, Brett. Interesting that the velocities are under 3000fps. Also notice the ES is all over the place as well. Never heard of that ammo, wonder how it compares to the current OSA stuff.

[Oldbloke]

I reload my 223 with 55g sp and get an estimated 2950 if I recall correctly. Sounds about right to me. Do you think the rabbits or foxes realy care about 50fps one way or the other ?

[Gwion]

Not that I care, OB. Just my data for 55gn at full load was estimating 3300+... Might be mistaken; could have been 50gn loads with BM8208 estimated our of 24" barrel. If Brett's barrel is 20", makes sense it slips under 3000 from factory loads... Could be losing 80-120fps with 4" shorter barrel.

[bigfellascott]

She should go alright with some handloads Brett - I look forward to seeing how it all goes.

[brett1868]

The 20" barrel will drop the velocity a bit compared to a 24" but as this rifle won't be used past 200m it doesn't matter. I'm very impressed with group 5 considering it's factory ammo from a 20" $850 rifle package, proof positive you don't have to spend a fortune to achieve accuracy. I'm sure with a little load development this thing will shoot just as good as my Sako's / Weatherby's and was 1/3 their cost. I think Howa have found a new fan
The S-D is the critical number I look at and this ammo isn't bad but it's not perfect, I try to get a S-D of 10 or less. For general hunting / plinking this ammo is perfectly fine and reasonably good value and great value if buying in bulk with the added bonus of being made in Australia.

[bigfellascott]

She will do the job fine for the young fella to learn on and they can certainly be made to shoot well from my experience with em.

[Gwion]

I'll say it again, just in case there is someone listening in Japan:

PLEASE make left handed option for Howa!!!

ok... back to load development i go...

[Oldbloke]

Gwion, "Just my data for 55gn at full load was estimating 3300+... " There are a few loads close to that speed in the ADI Manual.
My estimate is about 3000fps less 50 for 24" barrel. Yes it is a mild load & my other Marlin BA rifle seems to like a mild load too. But I don't think many foxes carry chronograph.

[Strikey]

I am fairly certain that OSA ammo is loaded to around 3300fps from a 24 inch barrel, going by the tables for my sighting points out to 200yds I reckon it might be close to that, will run it over a Chrony one day but all the roos I shot in the last couple of nights didn't know the difference and I am well pleased with this ammo's performance, and for the price I can buy it for I won't be reloading for this particular rifle as it shoots groups like Brett's at 100yds, that's all you need for culling

[Gwion]

Gwion, "Just my data for 55gn at full load was estimating 3300+... " There are a few loads close to that speed in the ADI Manual.
My estimate is about 3000fps less 50 for 24" barrel. Yes it is a mild load & my other Marlin BA rifle seems to like a mild load too. But I don't think many foxes carry chronograph.

Don't mind a mild load myself, OB; was just commenting that i was expecting over 3000fps from most factory offerings for 223rem.

Never seen a chrony set up in the paddock of an evening, either!

[Gwion]

Well, good news and bad news.

Good news is that Brett's very generous loan of his chronograph has come in handy so far. I'll post some data when I have more time.

The bad news is, consistent is not a word I would use for the velocity of the trail boss loads I have tested. I think it has to do with the bullets I am using and seating depth as well. The load i previously tested as being pretty accurate has gone to poo since I had to seat the bullets in deeper due to poor feeding from the mag. I may have to ditch the bullets all together and try a load with 50gn bullets instead of 40gn. Even in the full charge load they aren't performing well and a few are keyholing at 100m.

Back to the drawing board. Frustrating, as these bullets were working fine in the same barrel when it was on the other action.

[Gwion]

Series 1 Shots: 5
Min 1947 Max 2205
Avg 2075 S-D 114
ES 258 TrailBoss 8.9gn
---- ---- ---- ----
Series 2 Shots: 5
Min 1986 Max 2196
Avg 2076 S-D 100
ES 210 TrailBoss 9gn
---- ---- ---- ----
Series 3 Shots: 5
Min 1996 Max 2192
Avg 2063 S-D 77.7
ES 196 TrailBoss 9.1gn
---- ---- ---- ----
Series 4 Shots: 5
Min 1955 Max 2195
Avg 2106 S-D 90.1
ES 240 TrailBoss 9.2gn
---- ---- ---- ----
Series 5 Shots: 5
Min 1934 Max 2047
Avg 1991 S-D 51.9
ES 113 TrailBoss 9.3gn
---- ---- ---- ----

[Gwion]

So, the above table shows the data overview. The massive extreme spread and standard deviation shows why the accuracy is way off. Also, the increments of 0.1gn seems insignificant, but the change in such a small charge, coupled with the relatively large difference in volume with the TrailBoss actually makes a difference in visible accuracy, even if the data doesn't look remarkably different from series to series.

The last load was notably more consistent with accuracy and ES/SD data. This is consistent with information about TrailBoss performing best at max capacity for any given case. From my reading else where, consistency is best with a full but uncompressed load. I will try a few more loads creeping up but i think 9.5gn will be compressed and 9.4 will be max uncompressed.

Another issue i found was that my jump was miscalculated and was a massive 60thou! I have just spent some time re-evaluating my distance to lands on that rifle and am aiming for a 20thou jump.

I also spent some time evaluating the bullets i am using. They are less than consistent. Stupidly, i ordered them as a special order from a custom bullet maker and i am under the impression that the 40gn weight is too small to get the consistency he achieves with his 55gn bullets. The OAL of my loads varies 7thou (cart base to OG). This has also got to be having an impact, so i'll spend a bit of time sorting bullets and see how that goes.

This is all far more work than i intended for this project but now that i'm into it i'll keep going and see if i can get something consistent happening. I'll also try some loads with 50gn Zmax and see if they are more consistent but that will probably drop the velocity down to around 1800fps and reduce the MPBR. Might also buy some factory 40gn varmint bullets and see how they go by comparison.

[Oldbloke]

Thanks for taking the trouble to list the data. I have filed it away for possible use later

[Baronvonrort]

Good work Gwion it's something i'm sure many have considered trying, we are curious so keep informing us of your progress