PTA rejection. Anyone had it happen?

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PTA rejection. Anyone had it happen?

Post by MalleeFarmer » 08 Jan 2016, 1:06 pm

Hi just sent away a application for PTA. Got me thinking has anyone ever had their application rejected? I'm just curious that's all. If so what reasoning was issued?
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Re: PTA rejection. Anyone had it happen?

Post by Die Judicii » 08 Jan 2016, 4:01 pm

Not to me it hasn't,,
But a friend of mine was rejected (just after the PTA system was introduced) and he was told that his application was knocked back because he already had a firearm of that particular caliber and brand.
That was in NSW, and I don't know what the outcome was because I lost contact with him shortly after.

As well it was a long time ago now,,,,,, maybe it was just a pedantic prick flexing his puny muscles. :wtf:
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Re: PTA rejection. Anyone had it happen?

Post by KWhorenet » 08 Jan 2016, 9:59 pm

MalleeFarmer wrote:Hi just sent away a application for PTA. Got me thinking has anyone ever had their application rejected? I'm just curious that's all. If so what reasoning was issued?


Ive had x4 of the same cal/action/brand and never got knocked. PTA reasons were something along the lines of 1- what ever my LGS said, 2- ditto, 3- ditto, 4- Parts donor.

I think they just say hunting, farm pests etc etc
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Re: PTA rejection. Anyone had it happen?

Post by David Brown » 09 Jan 2016, 10:29 am

I expect this is the same in other states, but in Qld they are required to send you a rejection letter. They will try to phone you "off the written record" but they must by law write to you. Then if you are being rejected for reasons that are not lawful, and WLB do this, you have every opportunity to take them to QCAT or similar.

Usually just the fact that you refuse to accept the verbal rejection and insist on a written one, will be enough to get them thinking. If they ask why explain the law requires them to do so and if you are lawfully entitled to it, you will pursue the matter in court. PTA in the mail within days is what i would expect. It has happened before.

Just remember the law applies to everyone, even the stupid laws, so work the system as built.
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Re: PTA rejection. Anyone had it happen?

Post by Die Judicii » 09 Jan 2016, 3:57 pm

bentaz wrote:Ive had no troubles getting multiple permits through at the same time, ive got about 15 s/b 12ga shotties, i think the most ive put in on the one day is 3.
Might be of less concern to them than if i was "stockpiling " .338 laps or AR's or something scary.


You mean like that single barrel one that you showed me that's been converted to fire ICBMs ?????

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Re: PTA rejection. Anyone had it happen?

Post by No1Mk3 » 09 Jan 2016, 7:42 pm

G'day MalleeFarmer,
Had plenty rejected. If you have not filled out every required field in the manner they like it may be sent back to you for correction, but they will not actually reject it. A Cat A permit is usually approved without question but I have had a permit for a 22 rejected recently, and had to explain my "Genuine Reason" by phone and re-submit. I believe this was only due to the recent change in staff and the new people not being familiar with the Act. You may only apply for 3 Cat B permits for the same calibre, ie: 3x303, 3x308 etc, before you will be required to support your application with a written letter detailing why you need a 4th Cat B firearm. Cheers.
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Re: PTA rejection. Anyone had it happen?

Post by tom604 » 09 Jan 2016, 8:09 pm

happened to me once,,the missus said no :lol: :lol: :thumbsup:
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Re: PTA rejection. Anyone had it happen?

Post by southeast varmiter » 09 Jan 2016, 8:21 pm

No1Mk3 wrote:G'day MalleeFarmer,
Had plenty rejected. If you have not filled out every required field in the manner they like it may be sent back to you for correction, but they will not actually reject it. A Cat A permit is usually approved without question but I have had a permit for a 22 rejected recently, and had to explain my "Genuine Reason" by phone and re-submit. I believe this was only due to the recent change in staff and the new people not being familiar with the Act. You may only apply for 3 Cat B permits for the same calibre, ie: 3x303, 3x308 etc, before you will be required to support your application with a written letter detailing why you need a 4th Cat B firearm. Cheers.

Only if the calibers have the same action.
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Re: PTA rejection. Anyone had it happen?

Post by No1Mk3 » 09 Jan 2016, 8:34 pm

G'day southeast varmiter,
They are not considering actions in determining approvals, only calibre. Action type is part of the "genuine need" that you can put in your support letter. For instance, the last 2 PTA's I submitted for 303 were rejected based on the number of 303 I already had quoting S.104(2) of the Act, even though S104(2) specifies "Type & Calibre" they only apply calibre. My support letter pointed out that my current 303's were bolt action rifles for hunting and specific competition, and the new ones were for carbines for specific competition. They then wanted proof of my using them in competition. The previous Sgt knew all this, his replacements don't. Cheers.
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Re: PTA rejection. Anyone had it happen?

Post by pomemax » 10 Jan 2016, 2:44 pm

In nsw we only put type of firearm applied for .
IE: centerfire B or Rim fire A any type of action Shotguns come under A too but Pump action shotty and semis C
A handgun is a different pta No calibur or serial numbers on pta
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Re: PTA rejection. Anyone had it happen?

Post by juststarting » 10 Jan 2016, 2:58 pm

Fwiw - I've never filed one. I am in VIC. I just call the LGS, ask them to fill it, it's filed electronically, I get a call an hour later to come down and pick "it" up. So far 4 PTA's - 2 out of 4 for 308/7.62 - no issues at all. Like clock work.

Also, can fill the PTA for a caliber, I suppose rifle type/details is registered at time of an actual purchase.
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Re: PTA rejection. Anyone had it happen?

Post by vexesus » 14 Jan 2016, 12:32 pm

Only when people had 3-4 of the same calibre and only in the more nannyish of our states.

VIC gets what they want pretty much.
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Re: PTA rejection. Anyone had it happen?

Post by MalleeFarmer » 15 Jan 2016, 1:35 pm

Well mine was just returned in the mail about a week after sending it off. Awesome. SxS .410 here we come.
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Re: PTA rejection. Anyone had it happen?

Post by No1Mk3 » 16 Jan 2016, 7:10 am

Good stuff, 20" Stoeger coach gun? Or one of the longer barrel 410's?
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Re: PTA rejection. Anyone had it happen?

Post by MalleeFarmer » 16 Jan 2016, 8:44 am

I ended up going for the 26" SxS uplander model. 20 just seemed way too short for a shotty even a .410 a short SG is not much good to anyone other than for a defence weapon which I can't have and if I could it wouldn't be a .410 anyway it should be a nice handy rabbit/snake gun.
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Re: PTA rejection. Anyone had it happen?

Post by <<Genesis93>> » 16 Jan 2016, 10:45 am

MalleeFarmer wrote:I ended up going for the 26" SxS uplander model. 20 just seemed way too short for a shotty even a .410 a short SG is not much good to anyone other than for a defence weapon which I can't have and if I could it wouldn't be a .410 anyway it should be a nice handy rabbit/snake gun.

That's right MalleeFarmer, you can NOT have a defensive weapon.... :silent:
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:thumbsup:

This is similar to the NZ firearm licensing process, where you're interviewed during the process and asked whether you want the firearm licence and firearms, for self defence..... so you need to remember to say "No.".... No Officer, target practice and hunting".. :thumbsup: :allegedly:
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Re: PTA rejection. Anyone had it happen?

Post by Title_II » 17 Jan 2016, 6:43 am

In the US they make us fill out a form to buy or make "sawed off shotguns," silencers, machineguns, explosive weapons, poison gas weapons, etc., known as "NFA."


For the newer guys, they also ask us for a reason we need or intend to make the weapon. I like this one, see Section i






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Re: PTA rejection. Anyone had it happen?

Post by Title_II » 17 Jan 2016, 12:50 pm

bentaz wrote:Seems legit to me :thumbsup:


It's a real approved Form 1. They will approve anything that doesn't say "Death to America!" in Section i. The question is an anachronism, no justification is actually required for approval.
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Re: PTA rejection. Anyone had it happen?

Post by anthillinside » 17 Jan 2016, 6:48 pm

That would make perfect sense in Aus, the Weapons Licensing Branch is fully staffed by living dead. :allegedly:
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Re: PTA rejection. Anyone had it happen?

Post by MalleeFarmer » 17 Jan 2016, 9:12 pm

That is awesome. :clap: Here any thought of modifying a firearm is taboo. Only in Victoria I can change the caliber of any of my rifles as much as I want as long as I let the licensing and regulation division of Vicpol know.
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Re: PTA rejection. Anyone had it happen?

Post by Title_II » 18 Jan 2016, 3:05 am

Just to be clear, you can do anything you want to firearms here at will, no forms. Just that full autos, rifles with barrels shorter than 16", shotguns bbls shorter than 18", and a few other things not related to common arms are NFA and require the form and tax. So it's not the modification, it's that you're making something that is regulated.
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Re: PTA rejection. Anyone had it happen?

Post by <<Genesis93>> » 18 Jan 2016, 8:32 am

Title_II wrote:Just to be clear, you can do anything you want to firearms here at will, no forms. Just that full autos, rifles with barrels shorter than 16", shotguns bbls shorter than 18", and a few other things not related to common arms are NFA and require the form and tax. So it's not the modification, it's that you're making something that is regulated.


Autos must be grandfathered? Or can you take your upper, lower, auto bolt carrier and associated parts then pay the ATFE fees (maybe before the exercise) and you're good to go??,

Is there a restriction on where you can use an auto?

As far as the form up there^, its much like the PTA forms here, redundant waster of resources on both sides....achieving nothing whatsoever considering the applicants are already licensed for the arms they seek to acquire....
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Re: PTA rejection. Anyone had it happen?

Post by Vati » 18 Jan 2016, 10:04 am

Title_II wrote:I like this one, see Section i


Ha ha.
Reach out and touch...
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Re: PTA rejection. Anyone had it happen?

Post by Title_II » 18 Jan 2016, 11:08 am

<<Genesis93>> wrote:
Title_II wrote:Just to be clear, you can do anything you want to firearms here at will, no forms. Just that full autos, rifles with barrels shorter than 16", shotguns bbls shorter than 18", and a few other things not related to common arms are NFA and require the form and tax. So it's not the modification, it's that you're making something that is regulated.


Autos must be grandfathered? Or can you take your upper, lower, auto bolt carrier and associated parts then pay the ATFE fees (maybe before the exercise) and you're good to go??,


Civilian full autos were made by May 1986. You can change them any way you want. So, for instance, it you bought an M16, and wanted to make an M4 (which did not exist in 1986), you can do that. An MP-5 sear can go into a new HK-91/G3 or HK43/51/etc. etc. etc. M16s can get brand new belt fed uppers. Even MAC-10s, the bastard child on the cheap end of nfa, can be converted to fire .223 full auto.

If you want entirely new full autos you start a gun shop (or gun manufacturing business) and pay a $500 tax per year. People do run them out of their houses, but ATF will cancel your license if you are not actually selling guns and obviously in the business at least a little on a regular basis. It's really not hard, but most people don;t want to deal with it. Just like most people don't want to deal with starting any kind of business.

Is there a restriction on where you can use an auto?


No resitrctions on where, why, or how.

As far as the form up there^, its much like the PTA forms here, redundant waster of resources on both sides....achieving nothing whatsoever considering the applicants are already licensed for the arms they seek to acquire....


People who file that form are not licensed in the US. Yes, it achieves nothing. Again, this is only for NFA weapons. Short barrel shotguns/rifles, machineguns, AOWs (hard to explain), explosive weapons/explosive rockets, poison gas weapons, rifled guns over .50 (except shotguns, "sporting purpouse, black power, or smooth bore such as the M1 Abrams 120 mm :) )
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Re: PTA rejection. Anyone had it happen?

Post by Yelp » 20 Jan 2016, 2:15 pm

What is considered a "short barrel" long arm there?

Just curious how it compares to Aus.
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Re: PTA rejection. Anyone had it happen?

Post by Title_II » 20 Jan 2016, 4:14 pm

Yelp wrote:What is considered a "short barrel" long arm there?

Just curious how it compares to Aus.


Handguns are unregulated, any barrel length is fine.

Rifles must have 16" and shotguns must have 18" If it is shorter, it is NFA and you file the form and pay the tax. Which is pretty much automatically approved. And I love things automatic.
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Re: PTA rejection. Anyone had it happen?

Post by Harts » 29 Jan 2016, 8:07 am

Do you need to provide a reason why it's shorter or are you basically just notifying them?
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Re: PTA rejection. Anyone had it happen?

Post by Title_II » 29 Jan 2016, 9:23 am

Harts wrote:Do you need to provide a reason why it's shorter or are you basically just notifying them?


See above, they ask for a reason. You can tell them, "Zombies." It doesn't matter what reason you give, the question is archaic. They don't care.

Take a machinegun. Machineguns can have any barrel length, but they are already subject to NFA. The only regulated part (in most cases) is the receiver OR trigger group. You can replace the rest of it with an Apache Helicopter. No forms required. Just the form when you obtained the receiver.

Again, handguns have no length restrictions. No forms, no registration, no nothing. Same as ordinary long guns.

Rifles. You can do anything you want with a rifle. Turn an AR-15 into an M4 clone but just keep the TOTAL barrel length 16". Change out all the p[arts, modify it, change the caliber, doesn't matter. Heck, turn it into a different gun if you are that skilled. Heck, MAKE YOUR OWN from scratch. You can make your own guns in the US, including buying unregulated flats and billets, or starting from a block or metal. No forms, no registration, no nothing.

If you want the rifle length below 16" it becomes NFA and you have to file that form and pay the tax. Now it is Short Barreled Rifle (SBR). Now you can have unlimited barrel lengths, no more forms to file. And you can still change everything else on it as well, of course.
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Re: PTA rejection. Anyone had it happen?

Post by <<Genesis93>> » 29 Jan 2016, 10:04 am

Title_II wrote:
Yelp wrote:What is considered a "short barrel" long arm there?

Just curious how it compares to Aus.


Handguns are unregulated, any barrel length is fine.

Rifles must have 16" and shotguns must have 18" If it is shorter, it is NFA and you file the form and pay the tax. Which is pretty much automatically approved. And I love things automatic.


Handguns are regulated with certain features, silencers threaded bbl.... or is that only the proposed AWB??
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Re: PTA rejection. Anyone had it happen?

Post by Title_II » 29 Jan 2016, 11:19 am

<<Genesis93>> wrote:
Title_II wrote:
Yelp wrote:What is considered a "short barrel" long arm there?

Just curious how it compares to Aus.


Handguns are unregulated, any barrel length is fine.

Rifles must have 16" and shotguns must have 18" If it is shorter, it is NFA and you file the form and pay the tax. Which is pretty much automatically approved. And I love things automatic.


Handguns are regulated with certain features, silencers threaded bbl.... or is that only the proposed AWB??


Unregulated.

There is no proposed AWB, those are the same as the proposed Unicorn Extermination Act. Or a proposed put a man on Saturn act. None of that is remotely serious.

Thread your barrels, do it yourself, do whatever you want. If you look online, most US handguns have threaded barrels as a basic option. Because they know we like cans (silencers).

Silencers are not part of the gun (99% of the time), but they are subject to the NFA. You must send in the one page form and the tax to get a silencer, or to build one yourself, unfortunately. Of course, this is assuming you have no license. No license is required to buy or own any of these weapons, but if you have a license you can just buy or make them at will without the tax. Silencer has nothing to do with the gun, you can use it on 100 different guns.
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