Drinking a beer before hunting and "intoxication"

[Shorti85]

So when I went and done my safety course 14 months ago we were talking about having a beer before hunting, we were told by the firearms officer at Williamson cop shop it was ok to have a beer as long as you were not intoxicated. Your level of intoxication would be up to the officer/park ranger or what ever law enforcement officer at the time was speaking to you. If they thought you weren't capable of using a firearm then you would be in trouble and that there was no specific BAC level.
My father in law done his safety course a month ago and was told if they even smell alcohol you will have your firearms taken away.
Victorian Law states
"A person must not dispose of a firearm to a person whom the person disposing of the firearm reasonably believes to be under the influence of intoxicating liquor or a drug."
Does this mean pissed or not being able to have any alcohol at all??
When driving a car you are not classed as 'under the influence' until you reach .05

[sandgroperbill]

This, I understand, is the greatest of grey areas. It is pretty well open to interpretation. If the person who books you considers you may be under the influence, you can be in strife. Now, as far as I'm aware, there is no specific blood alcohol content, it's basically opinion.
If you were booked, you could obviously fight it in court, but having said that, this is still iffy at best. How would you prove you weren't under the influence. How would the other person prove you were, but after the end of the day, it's all about perception and being fit and proper and responsible.

Now, I know, I know, a firearms lawyer would be able to easily defend this in most cases (unless you were blind pissed), but the effort, stress, costs, etc... it's just not worth it.

If you're over .05 and driving with firearms in the boot, that's another matter.

The best advice? Have a beer after shooting, not before. And make sure your firearms are safely locked and/or packed away before having the beer.

[sandgroperbill]

The above is not legal advice, and different states may vary. But I consider it common sense.

[Shorti85]

Im not talking about drinking while shooting that could end real bad, but a beer or 2 with dinner then going bunny busting

[Modena]

And make sure your firearms are safely locked and/or packed away before having the beer.

Ah I think you mean "unloaded"

[happyhunter]

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[GLS_1956]

I was taught from day one that guns/gunpowder and alcohol do not mix, period. If you want a drink it is after the hunt or time at the range. Since I do have a carry permit I have a personal philosophy of "When I carry I don't drink, when I drink I don't carry."

[Squiddy]

Is it such a big deal just to wait and drink after you shoot when everything is safely packed away?

[Shorti85]

I'm not saying I want to drink before I go hunting, I'm asking if I have a beer or 2 after work and a mate rings me and invites me to go shoot bunnies, can I legally go and shoot bunnies?

[Squiddy]

Straight from the safety manual on the Vic Police website:

Rule 7: Avoid alcohol or drugs prior to and
while handling firearms

When handling a firearm you must be able to think clearly.
Alcohol and drugs (even those prescribed) dull and slow
your mental and physical reactions.
Alcohol and Firearms do not mix! Ever!
• Wait until your firearm has been safely locked away
before you consume alcohol.
• Do not shoot with others who are, or have been, drinking
alcohol or taking drugs.

My understanding of this is that you can't consume any alcohol legally then go shooting.

It doesn't mention quantities here (certain foods like Cherry Ripe bars, which contain alcohol and would theoretically make you blow a reading) so I know the debate is going to continue here anyway.

Safest bet is just to avoid alcohol at all costs prior to shooting and if you get a call after you've downed a few tinnys give it a miss that day.

The bunnies will always be there.

[<<Genesis93>>]

This issue here... in VIC, is that there is no black and white.
Who decides if you're under the influence?
If you had a drink the night before are you under the influence?
If you had a drink at lunch and you go out for a dusk/evening spotlight for Deer, are you under the influence?
If you had 3 drinks at lunch and you go out for a dusk/evening spotlight for Deer, are you under the influence?

In my forefather's culture alcohol was an important cultural component, they made wine and spirits, they consumed the spirits and wine for breakfast, lunch and dinner. Yes, thats right and when consumed responsibly it is a lot different to the Aussie culture of today where alcohol consumption is associated with domestic and street violence.....

So what is under the influence? st another rubbery term the po-lice will use to take your guns. Just like the buggers have done with the driving laws, outlawing the traveler in VIC... where you can get done for holding your car keys and if they SUSPECT you will drive your car you can get done.....if you've have 1 beer they may consider you under the influence and strip you of your licence and firearms.

[Shorti85]

I have sent an email to the Divisional Firearms officer and will post the response as soon as I get it

[<<Genesis93>>]

I have sent an email to the Divisional Firearms officer and will post the response as soon as I get it

What was the question you asked?

and what do you anticipate the answer might be

[Shorti85]

I have sent an email to the Divisional Firearms officer and will post the response as soon as I get it

What was the question you asked?

and what do you anticipate the answer might be

I have a question about alcohol and firearms. I'm new to owning firearms and hunting, it says in the safety booklet to avoid alcohol and in the rules it says that you can't be under the influence. So by having 1 beer am I under the influence and cannot use a firearm?
For example; if I were to have a beer after work then be invited to go hunting a little later, would that be illegal?

Thanks in advance

The only response I want is what is legal

[<<Genesis93>>]

The only answer they would / could ever give you is; you drink - you don't shoot/handle guns.
What the law say is "under the influence"... so if the police / rangers think you've had ANY drink - they will do you.

As far as I'm concerned, I am under the influence, as in the alcohol is influencing my judgement is not after one drink....it might be 4 or 5, but for the purposes of the law, that not really relevant.

By the time you get to the court room to argue the point, your guns are well gone and good luck getting them back

[Modena]

The safety manual is not the law. Just like it's up to the Police to decide if you are drunk on the street whether you are "intoxicated" or not, the same would apply here I would think, although if you are pissed and walking home from the pub they're unlikely to do anything (except maybe help you get home), whereas if you smell of alcohol (or worse) and you have a firearm you, I would think, are heading for the slammer.

[Oldbloke]

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Just my opinion. Best to avoid booze

[Heckler303]

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Just my opinion. Best to avoid booze

From a health perspective, yes, it is best to avoid booze.

[Apollo]

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Just my opinion. Best to avoid booze

From a health perspective, yes, it is best to avoid booze.

And you are ...??? How Old... ???

Hmm.

Sorry Youngster... I think you had better stick to playing with your iPod and Games.

[No1Mk3]

I don't drink for fun or pleasure. Actually dislike the stuff, but I imbibe purely for medicinal purposes. (If you believe that codswallop, I have a bridge I could sell you!) Just as the Mrs has a Rakia in her coffee everyday, I have a wee glass of malt whisky.

[Heckler303]

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Just my opinion. Best to avoid booze

From a health perspective, yes, it is best to avoid booze.

And you are ...??? How Old... ???

Hmm.

Sorry Youngster... I think you had better stick to playing with your iPod and Games.

I've got plenty of people my age drinking away and seeing how bad it got for them, really put me off trying anymore.

plus the fact beer, stout, wine e.t.c all taste like piss.

*dons flame-protected helmet*

[<<Genesis93>>]

You're confusing getting plastered with 'normal' responsible behavior. You're mates 'learned' that from seeing their mates do it, who learned from older kids, from the news, from the entertainment industry, sport industry where all there heroes are sponsored by the alcohol industry...... 'That what we do'


Alcoholic beverages are not toxic or inherently bad or unhealthy, just like most substances, until you consume high amounts.....
Between a class of Red wine, and a glass of Coke, which is better for your health? Thats right, it aint the glass of sugar saturated phosphoric acid... my doctor has never recommended I have a glass of coke with my meal.

[Gwion]

I can't believe this thread is still going, its pretty straight forward.
Piss=good
Guns=good
Piss+guns=bad
End of story.

Totally agree but my take on some of the questions posed by the OP are as follows.

On average, the 'average adult' liver can process one standard drink worth of ethanol in one hour, so: can i have a beer after work and then go shooting?
Well, one beer (being a pot or 10oz glass of 4.5%abv, for example) at 530 and then shooting at 7pm, you will most likely be back to 0.00BAC (blood alcohol content). If that beer is a pint, you will still be under 0.05BAC but will still have booze in your system. Let's say you share a bottle of red (wine) over lunch at 1pm on a Saturday. That's just under 4 standard drinks each,on average, between two people. If you don't drink any more and have your last sip at 3pm, you should be back to 0.00BAC by between 5-6pm. Of course, this depends on your metabolism, how much you have eaten, how tired you are, etc. but it is the standard calculation of what the average adult body can process.

From this you should be able to responsibly figure out if you are or are not doing the right thing. If in doubt, don't do it. If you are planning to go shooting, leave the beers until after. If you have had a beer (and your "A BEER" means 2-3 quick ones at the pub after work) and someone asks you out for a dusk bunny bustin' session; maybe suggest to your mate that tomorrow is better for you. What many people consider 'just one' may actually be 2-3 standard drinks.

YOU are the responsible adult with a firearms licence, it's up to YOU to make the responsible decision.

This is not legal advice, just my opinion on the matter.

Here is a list of what constitutes a standard drink in Australia:

Number of standard drinks - beer

Full strength 4.8% alc. vol
285 ml glass - 1.1 standard drinks
375 ml bottle or can - 1.4 standard drinks
425 ml glass - 1.6 standard drinks
24 x 375 ml case - 34 standard drinks

Mid strength 3.5% alc. vol
285 ml glass - 0.8 standard drinks
375 ml bottle or can - 1 standard drink
425 ml glass - 1.2 standard drinks
24 x 375 ml case - 24 standard drinks

Low strength 2.7% alc. vol
285 ml glass - 0.6 standard drinks
375 ml bottle or can - 0.8 standard drinks
425 ml glass - 0.9 standard drinks
24 x 375 ml case - 19 standard drinks

Number of standard drinks - wine
Red wine 13% alc. vol
[G: I'm calling this light red because a good Cab or Shiraz can be 15-16%]
100 ml standard serve - 1 standard drink
150 ml average restaurant serving - 1.5 standard drinks
750 ml bottle - 7.7 standard drinks
2 litre cask - 21 standard drinks
4 litre cask - 41 standard drinks

White wine 11.5% alc. vol
100 ml standard serve - 0.9 standard drink
150 ml average restaurant serving - 1.4 standard drinks
750 ml bottle - 6.8 standard drinks
2 litre cask - 18 standard drinks
4 litre cask - 36 standard drinks

Champagne 12% alc. vol
150 ml average restaurant serving - 1.4 standard drinks
750 ml bottle - 7.1 standard drinks

Port 17.5% alc. vol
60ml standard serve - 0.8 standard drinks
2 litre cask - 28 standard drinks

Number of standard drinks - spirits
High strength 40% alc. vol
30 ml nip - 1 standard drink
700 ml bottle - 22 standard drinks

Full strength ready-to-drink 5% alc. vol
275 ml bottle = 1.1 standard drinks
330ml bottle - 1.2 standard drinks
660 ml bottle - 2.6 standard drinks

High strength ready-to-drink 7% alc. vol
275 ml bottle - 1.5 standard drinks
330 ml bottle - 1.8 standard drinks
660 ml bottle - 3.6 standard drinks
Full strength pre-mix spirits 5% alc. vol

250 ml can - 1 standard drink
300 ml can - 1.2 standard drinks
375 ml can - 1.5 standard drinks
440 ml can - 1.7 standard drinks

High strength pre-mix spirits 7% - 10% alc. vol
250 ml can - 1.4 - 1.9 standard drinks

High strength pre-mix spirits 7% alc. vol
300 ml can - 1.6 standard drinks
375 ml can - 2.1 standard drinks
440 ml can - 2.4 standard drinks.

edit: BAC

[Shorti85]

I can't believe this thread is still going, its pretty straight forward.
Piss=good
Guns=good
Piss+guns=bad
End of story.

You can say that exact same thing about driving, but it not illegal to have a beer before driving!

[Shorti85]

To those of you that actually responded to the question I thank you
To the rest of you that just simply said alcohol and guns don't mix, why even bother writing anything? It's unhelpful people like you that ruin good forums

[<<Genesis93>>]

G, why are you using the 0.00 level as the baseline??
Although I agree, about waiting until after the shooting/working to have a relaxing cold beer or glass of wine, there is absolutely no reason to suggest that zero alcohol level is necessary....from either a safety or legal perspective..... if you have 1 beer does all your rational thinking and decision making brain compartment go haywire?? Are all your senses dulled?

If it was the case then ALL drivers on the road would also require zero BAC, as operating a motor vehicle on the public road can be just as, if not MORE hazardous than operating a firearm.

If you have a beer or 2 for lunch, or a glass of wine, you're most likely to have negligible BAC by the time you've got your gear packed in the car and left the range.... no doubt on arrival at your shooting spot.
If you're ok to drive - I think it's fair to say you'll be right to shoot.
Do I advise or recommend handling firearms with elevated BAC - No.
Would I suggest all firearm handling must be avoided if there is ANY reading of a BAC? - No

Everyone must make their own decisions on how/whether to mix any drinking with firearms, However the 'law' has been created to give the enforcers the discretion to interpret 'under the influence'....

[Gwion]

I'm not making any judgment calls, just giving the basic facts of the way alcohol is processed. As i said, from that information, a responsible individual should be able to figure it out for themselves.

As for the question of what level of blood alcohol is acceptable to police or constitutes being functionally impaired by booze, that is far too subjective with too wide a range of variables to make a call on. Under the influence, however, relates to having alcohol in your system; the rest is just a matter of degrees.

To reiterate: a responsible adult should be able to make the call if they are doing the right thing or not; if in doubt, don't do it.

EDIT: extract in relation to Driving Under the Influence, from: http://www.lawhandbook.sa.gov.au/ch12s06s03s05.php

"Driving under the influence

Elements of the offence
A person who drives, or who attempts to drive, a vehicle while so much under the influence of alcohol or a drug as to be incapable of exercising effective control of the vehicle is guilty of the offence of driving under the influence [Road Traffic Act 1961 (SA) s 47].
Can be charged with DUI even if under legal limit
The charge of driving under the influence is not the same as driving with the prescribed concentration of alcohol and it is possible to be convicted of driving under the influence of alcohol even if the blood alcohol level is less than the prescribed concentration. It is not unknown for people to be convicted of driving under the influence with a blood alcohol level of 0.04 of alcohol per 100mls of blood or even less. For the purposes of this offence, a person is deemed to be incapable of exercising effective control of a vehicle if any physical or mental faculty is lost or appreciably impaired. For the penalties, see alcohol and drug penalties."

Further links detailing the difference between 'intoxication' and 'under the influence' and factors that influence alcohol absorption:
http://www.findlaw.com.au/articles/4572 ... ition.aspx
http://www.druginfo.adf.org.au/topics/bac

[<<Genesis93>>]

Good info

[happyhunter]

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[Title_II]

I thought Aussies were always drunk.

You mean you guys are sober sometimes when you post on here?