Advice on powder for 12 gauge brass shells

[bigpete]

Gday I'm currently loading magtech 12 gauge brass shells with a 575 grain round ball,2 half inch circle fly cushion wads andb90 grains of 2f black powder using CCI large magnum pistol primers for ignition. I'd dearly like to change to a smokeless powder but have no real idea what to use. I have on hand Trailboss, W748,AR 2208,AR 2206,and Reloader 7. I have used Trailboss as a substitute in regular shot shells with the regular primer but when I tried it in the brass ones it didn't light up,mind you that was using standards lrp . Do any more advanced reloaders have any advice ? Cheers Pete

[No1Mk3]

G'day bigpete,
If you are firing an old firearm, such as a Damascus barrell shotgun or a Snider, I would only use Trail Boss. Some people have loaded AR2205 in exchange for black, but I wouldn't. As for ignition, Trail Boss really doesn't like compression, and can have variable pressure spikes, so if I use it in shotshells I only lightly push the wads in by hand, seat the slug by hand also, then use a magnum primer. Have not yet looked at firing slugs or ball with T/B from the shotgun without any wads at all, maybe some light filler, but it will happen in the future when I have more time to play, Cheers.

[bigpete]

Sorry I haven't loaded Trailboss in the brass shells yet, only in plastic. In them I was running about 22 grains under a wad with the petals cut off and a 510 grain homemade hollow base flat nose slug held in with wax. They were pretty mild to shoot.
I know that you can't crush Trailboss,that's why I'm hesitant to use it with my round ball loads,but maybe I can load the powder then wheat germ as a buffer to prevent crushing the powder then the 2 fibre wads ? I suppose I could even just measure how much room all the components take up in the case and seat the round ball accordingly ? What do you think ?

[bigpete]

Oh and sorry again I did load Trailboss in the brass cases but they wouldn't go off. And I'm getting my balls from Green River Rifle Works

[bigpete]

IMG_20160626_124848.jpg (571.33 KiB) Viewed 10983 times

here's some loaded up here. They look the part hey

[newsteadvic]

As others have said, smokeless is only appropriate if you have a modern gun, proofed for smokeless. I would not use Trailboss in a older damascus or BP only gun, YMMV.

The loads look great. I presume they are around .732inch diameter for that weight?

ADI does have some cowboy shotgun data in the back pages of their reloading pdf, however the data is all for plastic cases and standard wads. They suggest using the pistol/shotgun powders AS50N (called Hodgdon International in the USA) and AP70N (called Hodgdon Universal in the USA).

There is a bit of information in this June/July Handloader about general reloading tips but no data:
https://www.riflemagazine.com/magazine/ ... artial.pdf

Castboolits forum would be worth a try, like this thread:
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthr ... -Smokeless

Good luck

[bigpete]

The gun I'm using them through at the moment is a steven 311 so its plenty strong enough cheers for the links

[newsteadvic]

The gun I'm using them through at the moment is a steven 311 so its plenty strong enough cheers for the links

yes, they are excellent, this is the same shotgun I own. Mine has been cut to 20", full cylinder so I have been using full bore slugs, loaded in regular plastic hulls however.

This is my shotgun and thread from castboolits:
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthr ... rst-result

[newsteadvic]

There is a book purely about brass shotshell reloading:
http://www.ballisticproducts.com/Reload ... /00MBRASS/

[bigpete]

Cool ! I've loaded a shell and replaced the 2f with 25gn of Trailboss just need to test it

[bigpete]

OK so I test fired 2 Trailboss loads today,one was 25gn Trailboss,leather over powder wad,2 cushion wads,1.6cc scoop of wheat germ,.725 RB with 2 patches and dipped in beeswax/canola oil lube. Second was 25gn Trailboss ,1 leather over powder wad,1 cushion wad,6 .38 round balls with wheat germ buffer,and a.glued in card overshot wad. Both shot nicely and recoiled about on par with a 28gm target load. I'm going to leave it at that

[bigpete]

Yeah mate sure is,love the stuff

[bigpete]

IMG_20160706_132006.jpg (1.2 MiB) Viewed 10856 times

here's a couple of shots from about 15m right and left barrels. My sights need to be filed down. I pulled the ball out with my fingers but it still went into fairly hard wood about an inch and a half. Might need to tweak the charge a little but I'm erring on the safe side. Let's face it, a .725 RB weighing in at 575gn travelling over 1100fps is going to some serious damage on thin skinned game. Would love to chronograph the load

[bigpete]

Yeah not greatly impressive so far I'll have to try shooting some groups from one barrel at a longer distance,once I file down the rear sight that is. Obviously neither barrel shoots close to the same poi so I'm flogging a dead horse in one sense.

[bigpete]

Actually the round balls are patched

[Noisydad]

You've got me interested to experiment with my old Mossberg bolt action - another project was just what I needed

[bigpete]

Hmmm we'll see I'm of the opinion that because they're a sphere they won't suffer the same instability issues as a cylindrical bullet, which needs more weight up front to stop them tumbling if they're not being spun on their axis I've made some hollow base slugs that work well as a shot replacement in 28 gram loads,funny,they shoot exactly the same as my round balls I.e. first barrel low,second barrel higher and slightly right. Maybe I'll go all out this weekend and punch holes in some paper

[Oldbloke]

You've got me interested to experiment with my old Mossberg bolt action - another project was just what I needed

Yeh, me too. I have an old SB 12g I use as a camp gun. Cant find my old sinker mould now. Must have lent it out and never returned.

[bigpete]

I'm tossing up whether to buy an old sportco bolt action the local shop has,that way I only have a single barrel to worry about but I don't really want to buy another gun after inheriting 5 in the last 6 months,and I'm not sure about the adjustable choke on the end

[bigpete]

Ooh I know where one of those is too ! You and I must have similar tastes ! What sort of barrel do you have for it ?

[bigpete]

What's the twist rate on one of them? You wouldn't also happen to be on nitro forums would you ?

[bigpete]

No worries, I only asked as I had seen a thread on there discussing almost the exact same topic concerning a martini and a pacnor barrel

[bigpete]

Ha ha not really I don't have the technical skill to do that ,plus for some reason nitro forums has closed its doors to non members so you can't read any of its threads. Pain in the arse really

[bigpete]

Let me know how you go. I tried but gave up once I saw the questionnaire about why you want to join nitro forums and what credentials you have at least that's how it came across

[bigpete]

OK so I tried to shoot a group today with my last 6 round ball loads from 25m using both barrels. Here it is

IMG_20160708_103807.jpg (1000.01 KiB) Viewed 9715 times

I'm pointing at the point of aim as you can see they're shooting way high and I need to file the rear sight down more

IMG_20160708_103821.jpg (1001.77 KiB) Viewed 9715 times

three out of 6 balls hit here but they were out of both barrels so its not like one barrel shoots good groups,more like they both shoot crap

IMG_20160708_103402.jpg (806.87 KiB) Viewed 9715 times

here's my hunting knife and pouch with my double gun lol

[bigpete]

Actually a couple of shells have kinda had a hangfire , not sure why but if anyone has any ideas feel free to pass them on.

[bigpete]

Well I learned something today. I'd loaded some 8 ball buckshot yesterday which is 8 .38 80gn balls total 640gn on top of 22gn Trailboss figuring I needed to drop the charge a little to compensate for the extra weight. When I got around to trying them I got 2 fizz pops in a row,exactly what was happening when I first tried trailboss at that amount of charge. But when there's 25gn they go off fine,with maybena slight delay occasionally. My theory is that in this large a diameter case maybe the depth of powder with the lighter load is shallow enough that the primer spark blows through the powder column too easily and only lights a little bit of powder before the pressure from the primer itself pushes the load out ?

[bigpete]

Hmmm that's an idea, I was just thinking increase the charge back up to 25gn but your idea is definitely worth trying first. Cheers !

[Baronvonrort]

Well I learned something today. I'd loaded some 8 ball buckshot yesterday which is 8 .38 80gn balls total 640gn on top of 22gn Trailboss figuring I needed to drop the charge a little to compensate for the extra weight. When I got around to trying them I got 2 fizz pops in a row,exactly what was happening when I first tried trailboss at that amount of charge. But when there's 25gn they go off fine,with maybena slight delay occasionally. My theory is that in this large a diameter case maybe the depth of powder with the lighter load is shallow enough that the primer spark blows through the powder column too easily and only lights a little bit of powder before the pressure from the primer itself pushes the load out ?

I just had a look at the ADI reloading data they have nothing for Trailboss, I would try a different powder.

Cool thread great pics.

[bigpete]

Yeah adi don't have data for it