Clueless about shotguns

Double barrel, side by side, over-under, semi-automatic, straight-pull and lever action shotguns.

Clueless about shotguns

Post by longneck75 » 04 Feb 2021, 7:37 pm

Have finally decided to get a cheap shotgun for bunny busting/general farm fun.
I really like the tactical look yes yes i know.. :P
I went into my local to look at an Adler B230 but they said they refuse to stock Adler.
They have a second hand Pardus BA 12 MF which looks the goods and is only $750 and comes with the standard stock and a AR style extendable number and a flash hider.

Problem is it doesn't have the chokes with it and looking around they are about $150 for a set of 4.
Q1, Can you still put chokes on with a flash hider?
Q2, would I be better to go and get the new Adler somewhere else for an extra $50 that will come with chokes and 5 year warranty but not as good looking?
Q3, Does anyone own one? I cant find anything on them. only lever versions.
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Re: Clueless about shotguns

Post by snag » 04 Feb 2021, 10:47 pm

Ummm.... for bunny busting and farm work, why are you worried about chokes? Most farm guns are just basic open choked things and work just fine. Maybe don't overthink this stuff if it's gunna be a work gun.
The pen may be mightier than the sword, but personally I prefer the .30/30 Winchester.
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Re: Clueless about shotguns

Post by Diamond Jim » 05 Feb 2021, 5:01 am

For taking a bunny or two you don't need the latest camo-tactical, multi-choke, lever, straight-pull, muzzle brake, flash hider gun. A single barrel, break action will do the job at about $150 second hand. If your dealer tells you otherwise I'd be looking for a different store. If you want to go up a notch or two, for $750 you can buy a pretty decent used U/O or SxS gun that will do everything you want to do until you decide just how much you want to spend. Cheap things (guns included) tend to break and tend to be expensive to fix. Err on the side of simple and quality.
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Re: Clueless about shotguns

Post by Patriot » 05 Feb 2021, 6:26 am

Depending on what your definition of cheap is the TAC-12 is an excellent option for about $1300.Straight pull bolt action, 7 round tube mag, 5 chokes and it looks really cool, a direct copy of the Benelli m4.
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Re: Clueless about shotguns

Post by Oldbloke » 05 Feb 2021, 7:26 am

Diamond Jim wrote:For taking a bunny or two you don't need the latest camo-tactical, multi-choke, lever, straight-pull, muzzle brake, flash hider gun. A single barrel, break action will do the job at about $150 second hand. If your dealer tells you otherwise I'd be looking for a different store. If you want to go up a notch or two, for $750 you can buy a pretty decent used U/O or SxS gun that will do everything you want to do until you decide just how much you want to spend. Cheap things (guns included) tend to break and tend to be expensive to fix. Err on the side of simple and quality.


Agree. I have an u/o and single barrel. 9 times out of 10 I take the single. Nice open choke too.
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Re: Clueless about shotguns

Post by longneck75 » 05 Feb 2021, 8:45 am

I appreciate the replies, but I like the look of it. It was either this or a 17 HMR.
My question in regard to chokes is because I have read that if you don't use a choke in a gun that has the threads you will damage it, even running a brass brush can damage the threads.
I'm happy to not use them just need to know if I should buy some to not damage it.
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Re: Clueless about shotguns

Post by Oldbloke » 05 Feb 2021, 9:13 am

longneck75 wrote:I appreciate the replies, but I like the look of it. It was either this or a 17 HMR.
My question in regard to chokes is because I have read that if you don't use a choke in a gun that has the threads you will damage it, even running a brass brush can damage the threads.
I'm happy to not use them just need to know if I should buy some to not damage it.


I would expect that to be true.
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Re: Clueless about shotguns

Post by womble » 05 Feb 2021, 3:30 pm

You couldn’t have a choke with the flash hider or door breacher or whatever.
It would have cylinder bore plus come with a set of chokes for narrower patterns at longer ranges.
I have a side by side with I think the first shot is modified choke so I get a narrower pattern more concentrated area of shot, but if I miss then the second barrel is a wider pattern. I do like this gun, very natural and quick to to point, but she does hurt me with affectionate bruises.
Despite all the tactical add ons you see with new shot guns, nothing will ever improve on simply putting that brass bead on the target and boom. It works.
(Or leading the fleeing target, as in, it’s grapeshot, your enemy is trying to evade, you will give sir rabbit no quarter)
Nothing beats it. No lasers or red dots or bipods with lasers and lights and more red dots and s**t will ever improve on the front bead.
The only thing I envy about new fancy tactical shotguns is I could fit a bayonet. And frankly, why wouldn’t you.

There are better offerings on the market than Adler and pardus now. You want one with a return spring for fast follow ups.
Benellis patent expired so you have offerings based on that design which don’t fail, the above mentioned sulan arms and the stoeger due here later this year, same gun really. The berika rates well, huglu, most people seem happy with their dickensons. These are a different design. All are based on inertia driven semi autos with a couple of missing parts and they can’t be retro fitted.
There’s like 2 maybe 3 factories in Turkey that make all of them. They are built to a price, some get better parts and furniture than others, so you get what you pay for like anything else. There is one assembled here from their parts, the sks shs. They are popular and hard to find. I think they have nicer timber.
I would personally be considering something based on the benelli. I would not touch an Adler with a 10 foot pole. Allthough a short stout pole would would be good for hitting it I suppose., but I digress.
Anyway. All shotguns should be called boom sticks and they are a crapload of fun.
Personal choice, under over with ejectors every time for the win.
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Re: Clueless about shotguns

Post by longneck75 » 05 Feb 2021, 4:20 pm

Thanks Womble, I went back in today and had a chat.
It has a fixed choke.
It has a return spring I think.
Given they have openly said they will not sell an Adler due to being s**t but say this particular firearm is not too bad I trust them.
I agree with the no need for lasers and dots and night vison goggles etc lol, I just like the extendable stock and box mag.
Plus it will look good sitting next to the RPR in the safe :D
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Re: Clueless about shotguns

Post by womble » 05 Feb 2021, 4:56 pm

Nice mate, whatever your heart desires.
Just give me all the bacon and eggs you have.
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Re: Clueless about shotguns

Post by Diamond Jim » 05 Feb 2021, 5:46 pm

Whatever floats your boat. Personally, if I can't have a real pump or semi-auto, I prefer walnut and blued steel but it's your hard-earned cash.
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Re: Clueless about shotguns

Post by Benevision » 06 Feb 2021, 8:47 am

Gonna be a little contrary and say that as far as a farm/fun gun goes, I love my Adler. Mechanically, it's very solid. The finish leaves a bit to be desired and it's a little too light in its stock form but it's still a lot of fun. Also it has a return spring.
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Re: Clueless about shotguns

Post by Diamond Jim » 06 Feb 2021, 10:08 pm

Benevision wrote:Gonna be a little contrary and say that as far as a farm/fun gun goes, I love my Adler. Mechanically, it's very solid. The finish leaves a bit to be desired and it's a little too light in its stock form but it's still a lot of fun. Also it has a return spring.

Totally understand - we all have different tastes - the world would be pretty boring if we were all the same. My nephew has an Adler lever gun and it functions flawlessly but when we get together he reaches for my old double gun. In my immediate family we had to hand in a Browning Auto-5, Winchester 1200, Mossberg 500 and a semi-auto .22LR back in 1996. It has left a bad taste in my mouth.
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Re: Clueless about shotguns

Post by boingk » 06 Feb 2021, 11:32 pm

If you're after a 'practical tactical' look into the Stoeger Outback Tactical / Double Defence:

Image

20" barrels, extractors, pic rails for lights/dots/whatever, blackened wood stock.

Love mine.
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Re: Clueless about shotguns

Post by womble » 07 Feb 2021, 4:04 am

I never really like pump actions, just the looseness of the forend i guess. Don’t like them in rifles either.
Given a choice I’d take a straight pull shotgun over a pump action shotgun.
Not having that choice though without any given reason.
I’m compliant in everything they want from me, but that is a difficult one to justify. And i’m trying to look at it from their point of view. But i don’t know what their point of view is.
If they want that compromise, surely it’s fair and reasonable to explain why.

Semi-auto is simply the right tool for the job. There’s nothing more to it than that.
If you want to help reduce vermin and pests.

Wood vs plastic. For me it’s the smell, as weird as that may sound. But it has to be wood. Otherwise something is just missing.
And I’ve put that down to smell.
Just give me all the bacon and eggs you have.
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Re: Clueless about shotguns

Post by CAVEMAN » 07 Feb 2021, 6:54 am

The realm of the cheap Turkish shotgun is murky. I bought a brand new Pardus lever action for $250, and that was without haggling. Its had two trips to the manufacturer plus a fair bit of internal work by me. Accompanied by a we wont fix this again letter on return. I personally wouldn't recommend a Pardus

But i also have a cheapish Turkish double barrel. Now its not the fanciest or smoothest but it does work.

Now don't get caught up in the flash hider and such stuff. Yeah its cool. But not necessary for the role you want. Our forefathers did pretty well with a muzzle loading scatter gun.
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Re: Clueless about shotguns

Post by longneck75 » 07 Feb 2021, 10:04 am

boingk wrote:If you're after a 'practical tactical' look into the Stoeger Outback Tactical / Double Defence:

Image

20" barrels, extractors, pic rails for lights/dots/whatever, blackened wood stock.

Love mine.



I still see a double barrel lol, BUT it is a sexy double barrel.
I also saw a double barrel straight pull but thought that was just silly.
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Re: Clueless about shotguns

Post by longneck75 » 07 Feb 2021, 10:15 am

CAVEMAN wrote:The realm of the cheap Turkish shotgun is murky. I bought a brand new Pardus lever action for $250, and that was without haggling. Its had two trips to the manufacturer plus a fair bit of internal work by me. Accompanied by a we wont fix this again letter on return. I personally wouldn't recommend a Pardus

But i also have a cheapish Turkish double barrel. Now its not the fanciest or smoothest but it does work.

Now don't get caught up in the flash hider and such stuff. Yeah its cool. But not necessary for the role you want. Our forefathers did pretty well with a muzzle loading scatter gun.

I get in the world of shotguns that it is cheap, hell lets be honest any firearm that is under $5,000 is cheap given the crazy prices out there, but this is second hand, actually its third hand, found an old add for it, it sold for $1,100 as a second hand gun a few years ago.

Do I need a flash hider? no but it comes with the gun, do I need a collapsible stock? no, Do I want one? yes. Do I want a mag? Yes, I don't like tube feed, to me its not wise to load a live round then have to mess around loading the rest of your rounds.
Do I need Pic rails? No, wont be putting sights on it but may put a light under the barrel but probable not.
At the end of the day, it is my gun and if it turns out to be a piece of s**t then it will be my piece of s**t :lol:
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Re: Clueless about shotguns

Post by longneck75 » 07 Feb 2021, 10:16 am

womble wrote:I never really like pump actions, just the looseness of the forend i guess. Don’t like them in rifles either.
Given a choice I’d take a straight pull shotgun over a pump action shotgun.
Not having that choice though without any given reason.
I’m compliant in everything they want from me, but that is a difficult one to justify. And i’m trying to look at it from their point of view. But i don’t know what their point of view is.
If they want that compromise, surely it’s fair and reasonable to explain why.

Semi-auto is simply the right tool for the job. There’s nothing more to it than that.
If you want to help reduce vermin and pests.

Wood vs plastic. For me it’s the smell, as weird as that may sound. But it has to be wood. Otherwise something is just missing.
And I’ve put that down to smell.

you could just carry some timber around for the smell.... :sarcasm:
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Re: Clueless about shotguns

Post by Diamond Jim » 07 Feb 2021, 7:31 pm

longneck75 wrote:At the end of the day, it is my gun and if it turns out to be a piece of s**t then it will be my piece of s**t :lol:


And that says it all. It's nobody's business but yours and you don't have to justify your choice to anyone.
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Re: Clueless about shotguns

Post by Joshua.s » 07 Feb 2021, 8:08 pm

womble wrote:You couldn’t have a choke with the flash hider or door breacher or whatever.
It would have cylinder bore plus come with a set of chokes for narrower patterns at longer ranges.
I have a side by side with I think the first shot is modified choke so I get a narrower pattern more concentrated area of shot, but if I miss then the second barrel is a wider pattern. I do like this gun, very natural and quick to to point, but she does hurt me with affectionate bruises.
Despite all the tactical add ons you see with new shot guns, nothing will ever improve on simply putting that brass bead on the target and boom. It works.
(Or leading the fleeing target, as in, it’s grapeshot, your enemy is trying to evade, you will give sir rabbit no quarter)
Nothing beats it. No lasers or red dots or bipods with lasers and lights and more red dots and s**t will ever improve on the front bead.
The only thing I envy about new fancy tactical shotguns is I could fit a bayonet. And frankly, why wouldn’t you.

There are better offerings on the market than Adler and pardus now. You want one with a return spring for fast follow ups.
Benellis patent expired so you have offerings based on that design which don’t fail, the above mentioned sulan arms and the stoeger due here later this year, same gun really. The berika rates well, huglu, most people seem happy with their dickensons. These are a different design. All are based on inertia driven semi autos with a couple of missing parts and they can’t be retro fitted.
There’s like 2 maybe 3 factories in Turkey that make all of them. They are built to a price, some get better parts and furniture than others, so you get what you pay for like anything else. There is one assembled here from their parts, the sks shs. They are popular and hard to find. I think they have nicer timber.
I would personally be considering something based on the benelli. I would not touch an Adler with a 10 foot pole. Allthough a short stout pole would would be good for hitting it I suppose., but I digress.
Anyway. All shotguns should be called boom sticks and they are a crapload of fun.
Personal choice, under over with ejectors every time for the win.



I.100% whole heartedly agree .
Its also my favourite kind or aromatherapy. First light poking over the hills and the amell of powder ready warms the soul
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Re: Clueless about shotguns

Post by boingk » 07 Feb 2021, 8:08 pm

Someone mentioned the double barrel straight pull? That'd be the Hamle MH12. Darn thing is a monster, top of the 'Cat A' crop. Feast your eyes gentlemen.

https://youtu.be/vTQH0yI32G4?t=6

[Yes this is the pump version, ours are straight-pull]
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Re: Clueless about shotguns

Post by Benevision » 08 Feb 2021, 1:18 am

That is very cool but the charging handle is rediculously far forward on our ones. Bit of a shame that it's ergonomically challenged because the rest of the gun looks like a lot of fun.
mh12.jpg
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Re: Clueless about shotguns

Post by womble » 08 Feb 2021, 3:48 am

From a quad or buggy or out of the Ute, probably a good choice if you’re limited to cat a shotgun.
On foot, no thanks.

+ being the ugliest gun in the shop I’m sure some will take pity on it and adopt it.
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Re: Clueless about shotguns

Post by Oldbloke » 08 Feb 2021, 3:15 pm

So, IMO the dealers need to be carefull how it is marketed. If marketed as very fast and large capacity mag it will attract the attention of the media, just like the Adler did.
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Re: Clueless about shotguns

Post by boingk » 08 Feb 2021, 7:55 pm

Oldbloke wrote:So, IMO the dealers need to be carefull how it is marketed. If marketed as very fast and large capacity mag it will attract the attention of the media, just like the Adler did.


I would suggest that is why there is no marketing behind it at all. I heard by word of mouth, then Googled it, and came up with that cracker of a video.

Classic over-the-topness, can't beat it for laughs.

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Re: Clueless about shotguns

Post by womble » 09 Feb 2021, 4:54 am

I wonder if you can buy wheels for it
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Re: Clueless about shotguns

Post by Benevision » 09 Feb 2021, 8:11 am

I don't know, I reckon the weight would almost be a good thing. Probably got almost no felt recoil.
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Re: Clueless about shotguns

Post by Bugman » 09 Feb 2021, 10:32 am

I just us my old d/b Brno 12 gauge. It is simple, just like my style of shooting.
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Re: Clueless about shotguns

Post by boingk » 09 Feb 2021, 7:06 pm

womble wrote:I wonder if you can buy wheels for it


Just give me all the 12 gauge you have.

Wait, wait. I worry what you just heard was 'give me a lot of 12 gauge.'

What I said was give me all... the 12 gauge... you have. Do you understand?

*Respectful nod of understanding*
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