The benefits of breeding and letting animals grow out

[Wapiti]

Some pics my wife sent me today.
We had a bit to do with deer management from our trips to Wanaka in NZ, and it's a fascinating subject. When you do a bit of research, particularly from the old books about the introduction of deer into NZ in the later 1800's by such greats as D. Bruce Banwell, David Yerex, Jack McKenzie (Mr. Wapiti), and the way when they just bolted and fed up on the different and way better plant species in NZ that had never been browsed by animals before... The result was stunning.

Even the Brits and Scots went apesh*t at how a few pregnant hinds and the odd reasonable Scottish and Brit royalty-bred stuff that they thought was exemplary, morphed over a few seasons into animals never seen in quality before. People from all over the world rode ships to hunt there.

And now, with the ability to hide these animals away from poachers, bring in the best examples from other areas, captured by nets from helicopters and shuffled about, the results are unreal. This is nutrition and management.
No different from the best examples of humans, athletes and nutrition. Or the breeding of the best bulls in a cattle breed, or sheep, or race horses.
It's amazing also, the jealousy and the bullsh*t that is in internet comments, by uneducated "deermasters" that haven't ever bred an animal, decry hunting something completely wild yet well bred, but are quite happy to pretend that the animals they pose for with pictures that, to me, are very ordinary, aren't saved for them and that they paid for too, just like the bloke in these pics.

Anyway, enjoy these 4 pics. If you want to know where they came from, or the country, search Venator, Wanaka, NZ. The centre of the most incredible scenery and opportunity I reckon is out there.
Unfortunately, doing this capturing, breeding, protecting and managing these animals costs a lot of money and time, so it doesn't come cheap if you want to kill one of these animals for your personal ego. The proof of how many people are fighting to pay whatever it takes tells you there's plenty who will. There are 1000's more on the list to have a go than there are animals.

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This mightn't be your thing, nor can some people get it that this is naturally how these animals with the right climate and nutrition, and being allowed to mature, can result in.
If some people want to mistakenly say, oh it's hormones then just add to the facebook comments from people who have never managed a breed of anything, probably their own health as well.
Most Australian hunters just don't have the patience of the discipline to see this through. This stuff just spurs me on and reinforces to me why I'm doing this stuff too because it's a challenge in a thousand ways. Each to his own!

[bigrich]

JESUS FREAKIN' CHRIST ! never in my life could i have imagined a set of antlers like those two . that is quite astounding . i've seen a 22 point red up at crows nest , was a fellas breeding stock stag , beautiful impressive animal . i've had a mate tell me the climate and available browse for deer in NZ is far better than OZ . read somewhere they tried introducing moose into NZ . didn't do too well though, all died out . there is the occasional sighting apparently . i'll take both those views with a grain of salt

[Wapiti]

The area wasn't suited for the moose Rich, there's a whole book on it. I have one from D. Bruce Banwell where he and others way back lived down there in the completely unsuitable, basically terrible conditions.
In 1900, Moose (really called Elk but this term was incorrectly given to Wapiti by US hunters and over time it stuck) were released in the Hokitika Valley but failed to establish, mostly thought to be because of the lack of waterways, lakes and suitable energy feed.
Back then it was, have a go, hindsight comes later.
Then in 1910, in Supper Cove in Dusky Sound down the bottom of Fiordland, another liberation took place but again, the area was just not allowing sustenance and support, and the conditions sucked the energy and ability to thrive out of them.
In fact, in the opposite of what I described above in my original post about conditions and feed quality, minerals and calcium, the "Moose" that did manage to breed and mature had virtual sticks for antlers, with none of the large palmations attributed to the same strains in North America, even North Asia. Then the poachers moved in.
See the link? Nutrition and conditions.
T.E. Donnes' book from 1924, that I have a copy of, states that the area was expected to provide a hideaway for them to spread and breed up before hunters got to them and stuffed it all up. Like with Wapiti, hunters got wind and started poaching which nearly wiped them out but the government brought in strict penalties and permits only initially issued after solid game management.
Blah, blah, right?

I chased these books from all over the world from strange little bookstores and they are precious possessions of mine now. When I kark it, I'm sure nobody will give a stuff about them but oh well.

What I reckon really sums this up, was this last week. My wife is the Facebook person, she puts up all our bull breeding pics and does all that, I find it to just be repulsive place full of pretenders. But you gotta be in it nowadays, to my disgust.
She showed me this post from one of the premier hunting mobs from Otago, where this young lady having taken this incredible fallow buck after a long hunt in the tops. There's a lot of young hunters in NZ, who are true hunters, not "shooters". They find what we call shooters as despicable; it'd just the way it is. This animal had been managed in a huge area where the managers had kept people away from this animal for years with hard work and security and years of allowing it to grow out, and she and her guide found it when finally they decided it was up for taking. After they ghad established it was of quality and had been given a few seasons to sow it's seed out there for the future, and before it went backwards with age.
The comments on Facebook were disgusting, all of them saying "How'd they photoshopped the fence out" or "They did well photoshopping this pic onto a shot of the tops" or "can you see the lumps all over it from the hormone injections"
Truth is, these jealous and uneducated commenters know nothing about game management, are probably overweight slobs punching from a keyboard that couldn't walk a kilometer, and comment just to feel a part of the other gutless mob that hides behind a screen. Gotta be a pleb amongst the crowd to feel part of it all today eh?They show how much they hate the people who spend a life making it happen, or the fit young people with the drive to actually work for the opportunity and fitness needed to have a go.

Farming is no different, there are others in my district who will gladly rubbish everyone else's' success from failures and having a go for years, but a look over their fence tells you how little right they have to comment. But we are all born with a mouth.
Some people will never stop making things happen, it's what they are all about, and then there are those who are the gimme-gimme and sit back expecting others to do it all. But still bitch about the results. They will always despise those who have a go, it's the only way they can stay breathing.