New application NSW. My timeline

[dagedsta]

Well. I applied. For AB lic. I like cool things and I would like to shoot feral pigs. Not sure if I will like that but I want to give it a go. You will probably think I am an idiot .. I probably am!

Ok, I did the course through SSAA, paid my $120 and that night submitted. I had to watch the YT videos to aid me through it, .. I didn't want to screw it up!

My application submitted, what could go wrong, right? HAH!

I was clocked by an overly cautious person who flagged me as a miscreant!
I was DENIED! "Discretionary Grounds". ffs

Thoroughly deflated, nobody want this, I searched for a lawyer .. the one in all the prints we see, from Queenbeyan (still NSW, but .. is it really? REALLY? No. It's not. Only by number plate!).

And he, although lovely and ever so forthcoming for lawyers in this field (that I soon found are extraordinarily expensive - it would be $10,000 + and I mean that was just the beginning of the costs). Hard no, forget it, right? Who needs it that badly? Not me. I am not an experienced shooter. I have never shot a gun, ever. It was not that important to me. And the other lawyer he pointed me to just came out and told me they will be giving 10% to the one that directed me to them. That's right. They charge SO MUCH they can afford to just give 10% and have a good chuckle!

But I got my nose out of joint and frankly, I looked a bit harder at the situation.

They denied me on 'discretionary grounds'. WHAT DISCRETIONARY GROUNDS, I asked myself?

Well. Tenuous, at best, given I am a good little boy and my past is well and truly (not that bad at all!) pretty checquered free. Dumbfounded. I was. I absolutely was.

I used AI to write a letter, told it to include my past and how I would be exemplary. Now. It was clearly a bs letter. So, I went through and literally changed everything. But it gave me a basis from which to proceed. That was the impetuous I needed.

I did well. I rearranged my rearrangement and then did so again. But, I did not include any third party letters or anything like that. Not at all. I stated my case, explained well my position and asked for a sensible decision.

And I got it. In three days. In a five page document that could only be described as being written by a judge and written in a 'judgement format' (I can only surmise), it was done: SET ASIDE.

No $10k + .. no. Not a cent. NOT A CENT. Just my time. (so do this, if you find yourself in the same, before you shell out 10k or more on "discretionary grounds").

That is the outcome I wanted. But I didn't expect it. I really didn't. The orders didn't read well to me, I do not speak 'legalese' but I do comprehend a win. And I WON!!!!!!!! And that is something.

I expected the internal review to almost automatically go against me. But it didn't. I laid out my case and my reasons and my willingness to abide and how seriously I take that responsibility. And they listened.

And between you and I? Rightly so too. I will be a responsible firearms owner and I will do the right things and I do seek the knowledge to continue to be that guy .. I am a noob! But I am cognoscente of that fact. I have a lot to learn.

And it's ok to have a lot to learn, right?

Except. Here's this. Anyway, today, (after now 40 ish days from course to picture taken at Service NSW) I called up knowing I need to have a safe at home that fits the bill. I talk to the Firearms NSW registry and they are lovely. They are. Nice people. Nice to talk to. But they give me my local Police Station, who do the inspections re safes etc, and the constable could not be more rude. Maybe he wasn't rude, per se but considering everyone else in this process he was absolutely short and couldn't give a damn.

There is something wrong with these people when at the end of the day, they work to keep us safe and frankly .. I expect service for my tax dollars. And I do pay my damned taxes and I do not expect to be treated like that, a second class citizen. I am not second class. I am like you and everyone you know, deserving of a modicum of respect. This is problematic and I will, as I think everyone who faces this issue should, make a formal complaint with your local member.

It is only through complaints to your local member of parliament will change come about. They trickle through to the relevant minister and they are then forced to a 'please explain'. Every time. EVERY TIME. So, do this. Every time you too have a bad experience. My situation was not that bad but, nip it in the bud. That's my motto. Take names, take notes and write. EVERY TIME. WITHOUT FAIL. They. Work. For. Us. And they need reminding of this.

We are not here to break laws. Not at all. We don't do that. I didn't call in an effort to break rules. Not at all. I called to make sure I was well within the rules, within legislation.

I wanted my greater than 150kg safe in my living room or dining room and wanted to make sure this complied with legislation. I was told by Firearms NSW to call them and ask for the licensing sergeant. And I got "why?". And "oh, that doesn't seem normal" and "we'll see about it".. "call you back". They aren't calling. And I know it. I will just put my safe where I please now, to hell with their 'feelz'.

It is true that I may be used to a different caliber of person on the other end of a phone call. I get it. I suppose, my circles are a little more upper middle class and posh, fair enough. I am not used to speaking with the type that becomes a policeman. Maybe it's me. Yes, it's all my fault. Police would never take an attitude with anyone, right? hmm. My advice? Don't call. Just don't engage unless you have to. Lesson learned.

I will look to the law, the legislation, act within it to it's fullest, without effect to the licensing sergeants feelings (likely not the one I have to worry about!) and do as I please (responsibly), as the law does not stipulate where exactly so long as the legislation is upheld.

What are your thoughts? I am truly interested to know. I welcome critique.

Timeline:
4/11/24 firearms course
5/11/24 online application nsw license
21/11/24 notice of refusal (discretionary)
26/11/24 Request for internal review (discretionary)
26/11/24 acknowledgement of receipt email (discretionary - and case detail numbers)
18/12/24 Decision SET ASIDE (along with 5 page page decision, clearly by a registrar/judge)
*** Dated 30/12/24 Photograph advice (to go to service NSW for permit)
Received 6/1/25 - attended registry 7/1/25

So. If anyone else goes through this. This happened. And in a few weeks (lady at service nsw said 14 days) or less, I will get my photocard.

Just saying.

Be good people. Do the right thing. Don't let the rest of us down. I promise I will do my best not to.

Happy 2025

[Oldbloke]

An interesting read. And welcome to the forum.

[bladeracer]

Did you say why they refused it or did I miss that bit?
I'm surprised they refused it in two weeks, I didn't think they even looked at new applications in the first 28 days.
Glad you got it through it eventually.
We lodged our CatH licences this week and they're currently running at about seven weeks for approvals.

Well. I applied. For AB lic. I like cool things and I would like to shoot feral pigs. Not sure if I will like that but I want to give it a go. You will probably think I am an idiot .. I probably am!

Ok, I did the course through SSAA, paid my $120 and that night submitted. I had to watch the YT videos to aid me through it, .. I didn't want to screw it up!

My application submitted, what could go wrong, right? HAH!

I was clocked by an overly cautious person who flagged me as a miscreant!
I was DENIED! "Discretionary Grounds". ffs

Thoroughly deflated, nobody want this, I searched for a lawyer .. the one in all the prints we see, from Queenbeyan (still NSW, but .. is it really? REALLY? No. It's not. Only by number plate!).

And he, although lovely and ever so forthcoming for lawyers in this field (that I soon found are extraordinarily expensive - it would be $10,000 + and I mean that was just the beginning of the costs). Hard no, forget it, right? Who needs it that badly? Not me. I am not an experienced shooter. I have never shot a gun, ever. It was not that important to me. And the other lawyer he pointed me to just came out and told me they will be giving 10% to the one that directed me to them. That's right. They charge SO MUCH they can afford to just give 10% and have a good chuckle!

But I got my nose out of joint and frankly, I looked a bit harder at the situation.

They denied me on 'discretionary grounds'. WHAT DISCRETIONARY GROUNDS, I asked myself?

Well. Tenuous, at best, given I am a good little boy and my past is well and truly (not that bad at all!) pretty checquered free. Dumbfounded. I was. I absolutely was.

I used AI to write a letter, told it to include my past and how I would be exemplary. Now. It was clearly a bs letter. So, I went through and literally changed everything. But it gave me a basis from which to proceed. That was the impetuous I needed.

I did well. I rearranged my rearrangement and then did so again. But, I did not include any third party letters or anything like that. Not at all. I stated my case, explained well my position and asked for a sensible decision.

And I got it. In three days. In a five page document that could only be described as being written by a judge and written in a 'judgement format' (I can only surmise), it was done: SET ASIDE.

No $10k + .. no. Not a cent. NOT A CENT. Just my time. (so do this, if you find yourself in the same, before you shell out 10k or more on "discretionary grounds").

That is the outcome I wanted. But I didn't expect it. I really didn't. The orders didn't read well to me, I do not speak 'legalese' but I do comprehend a win. And I WON!!!!!!!! And that is something.

I expected the internal review to almost automatically go against me. But it didn't. I laid out my case and my reasons and my willingness to abide and how seriously I take that responsibility. And they listened.

And between you and I? Rightly so too. I will be a responsible firearms owner and I will do the right things and I do seek the knowledge to continue to be that guy .. I am a noob! But I am cognoscente of that fact. I have a lot to learn.

And it's ok to have a lot to learn, right?

Except. Here's this. Anyway, today, (after now 40 ish days from course to picture taken at Service NSW) I called up knowing I need to have a safe at home that fits the bill. I talk to the Firearms NSW registry and they are lovely. They are. Nice people. Nice to talk to. But they give me my local Police Station, who do the inspections re safes etc, and the constable could not be more rude. Maybe he wasn't rude, per se but considering everyone else in this process he was absolutely short and couldn't give a damn.

There is something wrong with these people when at the end of the day, they work to keep us safe and frankly .. I expect service for my tax dollars. And I do pay my damned taxes and I do not expect to be treated like that, a second class citizen. I am not second class. I am like you and everyone you know, deserving of a modicum of respect. This is problematic and I will, as I think everyone who faces this issue should, make a formal complaint with your local member.

It is only through complaints to your local member of parliament will change come about. They trickle through to the relevant minister and they are then forced to a 'please explain'. Every time. EVERY TIME. So, do this. Every time you too have a bad experience. My situation was not that bad but, nip it in the bud. That's my motto. Take names, take notes and write. EVERY TIME. WITHOUT FAIL. They. Work. For. Us. And they need reminding of this.

We are not here to break laws. Not at all. We don't do that. I didn't call in an effort to break rules. Not at all. I called to make sure I was well within the rules, within legislation.

I wanted my greater than 150kg safe in my living room or dining room and wanted to make sure this complied with legislation. I was told by Firearms NSW to call them and ask for the licensing sergeant. And I got "why?". And "oh, that doesn't seem normal" and "we'll see about it".. "call you back". They aren't calling. And I know it. I will just put my safe where I please now, to hell with their 'feelz'.

It is true that I may be used to a different caliber of person on the other end of a phone call. I get it. I suppose, my circles are a little more upper middle class and posh, fair enough. I am not used to speaking with the type that becomes a policeman. Maybe it's me. Yes, it's all my fault. Police would never take an attitude with anyone, right? hmm. My advice? Don't call. Just don't engage unless you have to. Lesson learned.

I will look to the law, the legislation, act within it to it's fullest, without effect to the licensing sergeants feelings (likely not the one I have to worry about!) and do as I please (responsibly), as the law does not stipulate where exactly so long as the legislation is upheld.

What are your thoughts? I am truly interested to know. I welcome critique.

Timeline:
4/11/24 firearms course
5/11/24 online application nsw license
21/11/24 notice of refusal (discretionary)
26/11/24 Request for internal review (discretionary)
26/11/24 acknowledgement of receipt email (discretionary - and case detail numbers)
18/12/24 Decision SET ASIDE (along with 5 page page decision, clearly by a registrar/judge)
*** Dated 30/12/24 Photograph advice (to go to service NSW for permit)
Received 6/1/25 - attended registry 7/1/25

So. If anyone else goes through this. This happened. And in a few weeks (lady at service nsw said 14 days) or less, I will get my photocard.

Just saying.

Be good people. Do the right thing. Don't let the rest of us down. I promise I will do my best not to.

Happy 2025

[dagedsta]

[quote="bladeracer"]Did you say why they refused it or did I miss that bit?
I'm surprised they refused it in two weeks, I didn't think they even looked at new applications in the first 28 days.
Glad you got it through it eventually.
We lodged our CatH licences this week and they're currently running at about seven weeks for approvals.


Hey mate. Well, I don't know what goes on in their office. By the end of the process and having the decision overturned, I was told the 28 day period had passed and my file on their end (although, being before the Saturday "update and server sync" my Gun Safe portal had not updated to reflect it) had been marked "Recommend to issue". And was told I should expect the snail mail letter to take to Service NSW. The letter took six business days to arrive.

Yes, the judgement which was rather well done to be fair, weighed all the reasons as given by the police originally and in a balanced and thoughtful way. Quite interesting actually. I had a T2-Common Assault conviction in 2002 and a drive while disqualified that same year. 23 years ago .. tut tut. I have been a good little fellow ever since. It's just a reminder that things we do, although having been spent convictions, they matter.

My main point is, I was ready to give up. I did not expect the internal review to go in my favour. But it did. And that's a win. The key take away for anyone else is to not give up and you have options.

And don't rely on the police as they are sometimes snarky little so-and-so's and not worth peeing on. Some are great, some are .. children. The rest just turn up for work like the rest of us and couldn't give a hoot.

L8r people. Happy hunting.

[bladeracer]

Hmmm...I had an issue with my CatH application, though I didn't get anything from them. I hadn't received the progress updates that my girlfriend was getting, so chased it up myself until I was eventually told they had cancelled my application. When I asked why, they said they hadn't received my hardcopy documents within the 28 days required. I emailed to explain that my hardcopies were in with my girlfriend's application, and gave her details. A nice guy there made the effort to go and find it and reinstated the application seven weeks after it was submitted. And it was approved four weeks after hers so I feel that they did try to speed it through, as the error was theirs, not mine.

My Police record only shows three offences that went to court, all minor driving offences, two in 1988 and the last was in 2000. I think one only went to court because I wanted an extraordinary licence, really can't recall now.

Definitely! Never surrender!

Hey mate. Well, I don't know what goes on in their office. By the end of the process and having the decision overturned, I was told the 28 day period had passed and my file on their end (although, being before the Saturday "update and server sync" my Gun Safe portal had not updated to reflect it) had been marked "Recommend to issue". And was told I should expect the snail mail letter to take to Service NSW. The letter took six business days to arrive.

Yes, the judgement which was rather well done to be fair, weighed all the reasons as given by the police originally and in a balanced and thoughtful way. Quite interesting actually. I had a T2-Common Assault conviction in 2002 and a drive while disqualified that same year. 23 years ago .. tut tut. I have been a good little fellow ever since. It's just a reminder that things we do, although having been spent convictions, they matter.

My main point is, I was ready to give up. I did not expect the internal review to go in my favour. But it did. And that's a win. The key take away for anyone else is to not give up and you have options.

And don't rely on the police as they are sometimes snarky little so-and-so's and not worth peeing on. Some are great, some are .. children. The rest just turn up for work like the rest of us and couldn't give a hoot.

L8r people. Happy hunting.

[Wapiti]

Hey Dagedsta, good on you for standing up for yourself. If more people did that, people who did nothing wrong, this subject would be totally different.

[alexjones]

Never give in to bullies or to tyrants. I won two court cases against police. Cost me 20K. Was worth every cent. I would of spent 100k to feel vindication if it was required.

Most people who had licenses rejected because of minor things from decades ago always win their case upon appeal. However most people are to cheap, lazy and or not committed to keeping their guns so they just give up and bend over. The police know this so they reject a lot of applications hoping people just give up.

[Fester]

Good stuff and yeah, it sorta worked well for them with the middle class being eroded back to working poor.
The court system and lawyers are for the wealthy, not the working-class people.

The last govt was making new shooters wait about 12 months and hoping they will give up and not become gun owners.

The newer woke govt can't just do as WA have done but have found a quiet way to do it on the sly.
Reject every application they can and hope they go away.
Ex-military and now police will be struggling as so many have those PTSD conditions.
They are now attacking people with disabilities who were silly enough to tick the box for disability.
It appears that they are now putting Asshats in the FAR jobs that thrive on low s**t and will have one looking at applications to reject them, it's been well over the 10 years but we will consider him, "not a fit and proper person"

They also have a range inspector trying to close as many ranges as he can, often returning 6 months later to find some other new breach that he thought up.
There is a brand new range at Colo Heights area that never opened as far as I know.
One of the re-inspections took about a year because he had holidays.

The Katoomba NRA range was shut down for about 3 years.
I have not heard if the Golbourn range was ever allowed to re-open.
The Hill top range was shut down for about a year and I reckon they will do the only outdoor range within easy driving distance for western Sydney shooters in when they can. It now has a 3,000fps velocity limit from the muzzle or bench from what I hear.
Not too sure as a .223 goes faster than that.

[Bugman]

The fact is that you got your licence. Well done on your perserverance. Now jus move on, the more you dwell on the original application, the more you may well frustrate yourself. Just get out there and enjoy your sport.

[Oldbloke]

The fact is that you got your licence. Well done on your perserverance. Now jus move on, the more you dwell on the original application, the more you may well frustrate yourself. Just get out there and enjoy your sport.

[bladeracer]

I have not heard if the Goulburn range was ever allowed to re-open.

From memory Goulburn had to raise the berms from 6m to 10m, which would likely have bankrupted them if a road construction mob hadn't helped them. I believe they reopened last year?

[dagedsta]

The fact is that you got your licence. Well done on your perseverance. Now jus move on, the more you dwell on the original application, the more you may well frustrate yourself. Just get out there and enjoy your sport.

Will do, mate. Hey, it's just that I read a lot of posts on here for guidance. There were some mixed messaged and none that spoke exactly to my situation. Too, some mixed timelines on when or thereabouts paperwork should arrive or updates / server syncing etc. So, I thought to share my little story in the hope that it may help someone else stay on track. Or that it might provide impetuous for someone else having been rejected on flimsy discretionary grounds to make a very real internal review (outline your case fully, explain your motivations and how seriously you take the privilege of firearm ownership and all the safety and safe storage etc). And, that it worthwhile seeing it through even with the kick in the guts!

It wasn't about dwelling on the past. It was to help others with their future. That's just my take. I was really grateful for this forum. You guys all quietly led me in the right direction and for that I am really thankful. I wanted to give back in my little way. *shrugs

I had a friend today ask "why, why guns". Guns are cool. And who doesn't want to be 'Edge Of The Outback' guy?

cheers

[straightshooter]

dagedsta
Your posts are a salutary reminder to everybody of a couple of facts that have been obscured from peoples consciousness.
No matter how hard we might like to believe otherwise, we always remain the subjects of a colonial state. We do not have "rights", we have privileges granted to us or withdrawn from us at the pleasure of the highest authority in the state.
As for our privilege to possess and use firearms that is subject to the fit and proper person test as administered, by delegation, by the commissioner of police.
This is stated as "For a person to be considered fit and proper they must be of good character, be law abiding, honest, and show good judgement."
So if a person's GIPA is littered with incidents that indicate failures to comply with any of those conditions then a negative outcome is likely.
You were indeed fortunate that your review overturned the initial denial BUT now what is required from you is exemplary behaviour as even a trivial infraction could trigger another review.
I have seen it happen.

[Wapiti]

I reckon old mate has every reason to come on and intimate the BS that he suffered, his feelings, and share some really great advice. Don't give up, as too many quietly do.
Each time someone sucks it up and takes it up the clacker, it just spurs on these pr*cks to set more precedent to increase pressure. Another cut of thousands defeated.
If his story spurs some others on to beat this garbage, and his enthusiasm, bloody top stuff.
This is a forum where people have the right to comment.

[dagedsta]

For anyone interested .. two weeks after Service NSW application, my lic has arrived.

And once again, thank you to the information found within these forums as I have taken that advice and applied for both cat A and B so as to service the 28 day cooling off period concurrently. The portal does say 'Recommend to issue' but of course, that's pending the mandatory wait period.

I can't thank you good people enough. These forums have been invaluable to me.

Now for the wait. Which is not hard. The hard thing will be that I have never shot a gun in my life and have a lot to learn. I might not even like it! But I wanted to try it out, you know? And now I can. Pretty remarkable that considering six weeks or so I had pretty much given up. Not a bad turnaround imo.

Cheers guys

[alexjones]

You have never shot a gun before? Don't they make you do a safety course in NSW? Where you shoot like 5 or 10 rounds?

[bladeracer]

You have never shot a gun before? Don't they make you do a safety course in NSW? Where you shoot like 5 or 10 rounds?

Here in Vic when I did mine ten years ago and my grandson did his two years ago there was no handling at all, let alone shooting. The handgun safe handling course did have shooting with a variety of pistols.

[alexjones]

You have never shot a gun before? Don't they make you do a safety course in NSW? Where you shoot like 5 or 10 rounds?

Here in Vic when I did mine ten years ago and my grandson did his two years ago there was no handling at all, let alone shooting. The handgun safe handling course did have shooting with a variety of pistols.

Yeah ok my mistake. Must just be in QLD. They make you shoot every category. A/B and C,D and H.

They need to visually see you perform the practical part(ie shooting) of the course.