Qld police shooting

News and events in the media and political arena relating to firearms.

Re: Qld police shooting

Post by Billo » 17 Dec 2022, 9:21 pm

SLightly alarming that QLD Police knew of Nathaniel breaking into QLD and discarding weapons in the flood, where was the follow up.......
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Re: Qld police shooting

Post by bladeracer » 18 Dec 2022, 2:19 pm

Billo wrote:SLightly alarming that QLD Police knew of Nathaniel breaking into QLD and discarding weapons in the flood, where was the follow up.......


It looks like years of anti-social behaviour covered up by the education system. If they had done the right thing these scum should've been on Police radar for the last ten years at least.
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Re: Qld police shooting

Post by Oldbloke » 18 Dec 2022, 7:57 pm

bladeracer wrote:
Billo wrote:SLightly alarming that QLD Police knew of Nathaniel breaking into QLD and discarding weapons in the flood, where was the follow up.......


It looks like years of anti-social behaviour covered up by the education system. If they had done the right thing these scum should've been on Police radar for the last ten years at least.


Or the QLD police didnt so their job.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-12-17/ ... /101783696
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Re: Qld police shooting

Post by bladeracer » 18 Dec 2022, 8:10 pm

Oldbloke wrote:
bladeracer wrote:
Billo wrote:SLightly alarming that QLD Police knew of Nathaniel breaking into QLD and discarding weapons in the flood, where was the follow up.......


It looks like years of anti-social behaviour covered up by the education system. If they had done the right thing these scum should've been on Police radar for the last ten years at least.


Or the QLD police didnt so their job.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-12-17/ ... /101783696


What an absolute disaster of Policing.
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Re: Qld police shooting

Post by Oldbloke » 18 Dec 2022, 9:00 pm

Yeh, I think its called SFAFU. Killed their own mates through complacency and inaction.

Then, as you mentioned the "head in sand" attitude of the education department.

The question is will we get punished for it.

We will know a lot more in 3 or 4 months I guess.
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Re: Qld police shooting

Post by wanneroo » 19 Dec 2022, 2:00 am

The reason those folks had government jobs is because that is where you can get away with all sorts of abhorrent or crazy behavior.

A lot of unpack here and many unanswered questions but goes to show you can make the biggest nanny state in the world and ban, ban, ban, control, control and control and there are still evil people out there that are gonna do evil things so prepare accordingly.
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Re: Qld police shooting

Post by Oldbloke » 19 Dec 2022, 7:47 am

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Re: Qld police shooting

Post by dpskipper » 19 Dec 2022, 9:00 am

Can someone explain what good more laws do? Numerous laws where already broken at the time of this incident, not to mention now it looks like many many months before hand. Laws are only there to stop the law-abiding.

As always we are the lackeys that cop it.
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Re: Qld police shooting

Post by Lazarus » 19 Dec 2022, 9:50 am

Seems like typical journalistic click bait hyperbole.

"A car full of weapons"?

From what I read the vermin had a couple of rifles and some pig stickers.

Personally, I see no problems with doing something logical about this, like more intensive backgrounding before licensing.

The scum involved were far right fringe dweller sovereigns.
They don't recognise anything but what suits their foil hat philosophy at any given moment, so more laws will just punish the people doing the right thing.
As usual.
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Re: Qld police shooting

Post by wanneroo » 19 Dec 2022, 11:17 am

I don't know that they were smart enough to be a far right fringe dweller sovereign whatever there Lazarus. That would be giving them too much credit.

Clearly the left will use the tragedy to push more rules and laws on people that will solve nothing and make nothing better. If anything nanny states just make things worse because it takes away personal accountability and responsibility and shifts it to the Borg.
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Re: Qld police shooting

Post by Lazarus » 19 Dec 2022, 12:24 pm

wanneroo wrote:I don't know that they were smart enough to be a far right fringe dweller sovereign whatever there Lazarus. That would be giving them too much credit.

Clearly the left will use the tragedy to push more rules and laws on people that will solve nothing and make nothing better. If anything nanny states just make things worse because it takes away personal accountability and responsibility and shifts it to the Borg.


G'day wanneroo,

I'm just going by their history.
It's a given that not knowing them personally, the only history to which I have access is from the media.
However, both right and left and centre aligned sources concur that the proven record of the vermin's behaviour, statements and online rantings put them squarely on the far right with personal sovereignty and Qanon clear amongst it.

Clearly, not all who hold far right, christian fundamentalist beliefs and sovereignty as their philosophy are going to be stupid or twisted enough to do this, but this lot were.

As to the need to be "smart enough" to be far right, a sovereign or a conspiracy nut, there are legions of stupid people hold all the above as sacrosanct.

I get the impression from your contributions here, in general and this one in particular, that you may espouse them yourself, so don't take my comment personally.

One thing I believe is that everyone should be free to believe whatever gets them through the day, as long as doing so doesn't stop someone else from doing the same.

I'm truly astounded that in the 21st century people are still talking to imaginary friends in the sky and expecting something to be listening, but if that's what bloats their personal goat, outstanding.

It's when they get it all twisted up with their own mental shyte that it can be a danger.
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Re: Qld police shooting

Post by bladeracer » 19 Dec 2022, 1:41 pm

The laws were already in place to prevent Port Arthur, Wellington and Edwards. In the first case Police were entirely deficient, the failures are all on them. In the second he was actually prevented from legally getting firearms here so he went overseas, where Police failed miserably, even after being told about his behaviour by shooters. In the third he was prevented by the guys on the desks but kept pestering Police higher ups until they caved and gave him a pistol to murder his family. Our laws have never been an issue, even pre-'96. The issues that result in this are poor policing, but even worse, complete lack of interest among the community that see people going off the rails and ignore it so they never even show up on Police radar. These fringe dwellers like the remote communities because the Policing is so weak. So many instances of their behaviour seem to have been reported to the education dept, and totally ignored. I would have thought that by the 2010's our education department were well ahead of the ball in this regard, clearly they're not. But surely there must've been at least some complaints made to Police in the past decade?

A shooter posted a thread on a Facebook group that was basically a conspiracy rant, but the point that stood out to me was along the lines of "I don't care if they were nutters, they were on their own property". I see this disinterest in what is happening around you in your community is what causes these problems.

Last year Police were notified about a vehicle breaching their Covid wall _and_ dumping loaded firearms in the river. They came and seized the firearms because "guns bad", but as the vehicle wasn't listed as stolen they did nothing further at all, didn't even chase up a fine for the covid breach. As far as we know at this stage they never even chased up the registered owners of the firearms they seized. Where are these firearms now I wonder. They didn't even collect paperwork that identified the vehicle's driver to make it real easy to chase up a nice fat covid fine. They then lumbered the farmer with all this evidence and told him to get rid of it it, which they are now regretting a year later...after three lives have been lost :-(
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Re: Qld police shooting

Post by Oldbloke » 20 Dec 2022, 6:09 am

bladeracer wrote:The laws were already in place to prevent Port Arthur, Wellington and Edwards. In the first case Police were entirely deficient, the failures are all on them. In the second he was actually prevented from legally getting firearms here so he went overseas, where Police failed miserably, even after being told about his behaviour by shooters. In the third he was prevented by the guys on the desks but kept pestering Police higher ups until they caved and gave him a pistol to murder his family. Our laws have never been an issue, even pre-'96. The issues that result in this are poor policing, but even worse, complete lack of interest among the community that see people going off the rails and ignore it so they never even show up on Police radar. These fringe dwellers like the remote communities because the Policing is so weak. So many instances of their behaviour seem to have been reported to the education dept, and totally ignored. I would have thought that by the 2010's our education department were well ahead of the ball in this regard, clearly they're not. But surely there must've been at least some complaints made to Police in the past decade?

A shooter posted a thread on a Facebook group that was basically a conspiracy rant, but the point that stood out to me was along the lines of "I don't care if they were nutters, they were on their own property". I see this disinterest in what is happening around you in your community is what causes these problems.

Last year Police were notified about a vehicle breaching their Covid wall _and_ dumping loaded firearms in the river. They came and seized the firearms because "guns bad", but as the vehicle wasn't listed as stolen they did nothing further at all, didn't even chase up a fine for the covid breach. As far as we know at this stage they never even chased up the registered owners of the firearms they seized. Where are these firearms now I wonder. They didn't even collect paperwork that identified the vehicle's driver to make it real easy to chase up a nice fat covid fine. They then lumbered the farmer with all this evidence and told him to get rid of it it, which they are now regretting a year later...after three lives have been lost :-(


Certainly looks like police need to have a good look in the mirror.
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Re: Qld police shooting

Post by Oldbloke » 20 Dec 2022, 7:06 am

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Re: Qld police shooting

Post by wanneroo » 20 Dec 2022, 7:41 am



They sound pretty tone deaf to me and the guy they quoted in the article is just as looney as anything out there. It follows along the current thinking in many western countries that if you are critical of what the government is doing, are "pro gun" or "anti vax", then you are labeled a "terrorist" or "extremist". Ultimately what the government needs to remember is they are public servants. The public is not servants to them and they are accountable to the public for their actions.

If the government brutalizes people for three years during covid, stripping them of their human rights, their jobs, their businesses and then labels people that oppose such actions or making health decisions for them and then labels them "extremist" or "a terrorist", it is any surprise that some of the more desperate or angry ones then start acting as such? When people feel they have nothing to lose and push people into a corner, they will start doing crazy stuff, perhaps violent stuff.

Keep in mind in my field, I deal with "counter terrorism" on the periphery and have sat through classes on how people get radicalized or violent and quite frankly even the government admits that the vast majority of the time people turn violent or terroristic is due to harsh actions of a government.

So I think the mistake here from the fools in the QLD Police and the state government is rather than escalating the situation and labeling people "pro gun" or "anti vax" or who otherwise disagree with their thirst for totalitarian control as some sort of extremist terrorists or imposing yet more stupid nanny state laws, they are better off deescalating people and addressing their concerns.
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Re: Qld police shooting

Post by Lazarus » 20 Dec 2022, 7:56 am

D537647B-1119-490C-A217-E72674A27D47.jpeg
D537647B-1119-490C-A217-E72674A27D47.jpeg (59.91 KiB) Viewed 2996 times
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Re: Qld police shooting

Post by Lazarus » 20 Dec 2022, 8:11 am




I read that on the ABC site this morning, does make one wonder WTF.

They want to prevent it being used by similar loons?
Bit bloody late.

More knee-jerkery.

It is a tough question though, the successful pre-emptive removal or even de-escalation of these far right conspiracy types.
How do they do it without overly intrusive surveillance on all the rest of us?

How much personal surveillance are we willing to put up with to ensure they can achieve it?

It seems all the dots were on the page, just that nobody took the time to join them up.
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Re: Qld police shooting

Post by geoff » 22 Dec 2022, 12:19 pm

str8shutr wrote:
bladeracer wrote:
str8shutr wrote:For what it's worth, this report indicates that police firearms were acquired (so, I'd guess probably not much more than a Glock 9mm?) and used against police:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cDPalCh-R9w&t=55s
This could explain references to semi-auto firearms.

This piece indicates that the shooters may have been in possession of unregistered firearms:
https://youtu.be/ccRudYmg3cs?t=237

Although fair question to ask how can the media can be sure of their intel, e.g. how do they know for certain that "there were no firearms registered to this address"?


I did see a report that the slain officers' sidearms were taken, but why they would use those against tactical Police when they clearly have longarms already doesn't make sense to me.


Not much about this makes sense, really, does it?


As harsh as it sounds, it all actually makes perfect sense for those of us that have been paying attention to the rising prevalence of sovereign citizen rhetoric and conspiratorial behaviour.

It starts low key - have a look at any of the numerous threads on this very forum about something like covid masking, for example. Their mannerisms and quotes are much more common than we give them credit for. This stuff is a terrible pox on a polite society.
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Re: Qld police shooting

Post by Avok » 22 Dec 2022, 12:35 pm

Some more news from today, big news is that Nathanial had an outstanding warrant for the border breach and etc apparently: https://www.watoday.com.au/national/que ... e=rss_feed

Highlights:
Queensland police say the brothers involved in last week’s fatal shootout in Wieambilla both had, or previously held, gun permits and one was subject to an outstanding warrant for breaching COVID border controls last December.

Gareth had previously been subject to a decades-old offence for possessing a firearm with an expired licence. Nathaniel’s had been suspended after the unsecure disposal of two weapons in December, Linford (QPS deputy commissioner) said.

The four officers who arrived around the same time on December 12 would have known he was a registered firearm holder, Linford said.

Six guns were eventually seized from the property — two licensed to Nathaniel, three unregistered and one police were looking into. Three compound bows, arrows and knives were also taken.
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Re: Qld police shooting

Post by Oldbloke » 22 Dec 2022, 2:55 pm

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Re: Qld police shooting

Post by str8shutr » 22 Dec 2022, 3:16 pm

For those who haven't seen it, this statement collects some useful questions:
https://shootersunion.com.au/response-to-wieambilla-tragedy/

The news report linked by Oldbloke:

includes missing detail (although it's not clear whether the service pistols from the slain police officers is included in the accounting):
Deputy Commissioner Linford said six weapons had been seized from the property during the police crime scene search, along with three bow and arrows and three knives.
"Two of those [guns] were weapons that were registered to Nathaniel Train, three of those were unregistered," she said.
"One of those [firearms] we are following up lines of inquiry to find out who the owner of that particular firearm is."
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Re: Qld police shooting

Post by Wm.Traynor » 22 Dec 2022, 7:14 pm

Oldbloke wrote:https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-12-22/qld-police-shooting-wieambilla-warrant-nathaniel-train-/101800366


Mrs. Palace Duck is always looking at how she can tighten firearms regulations.
Aren't we lucky :sarcasm:
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Re: Qld police shooting

Post by wanneroo » 23 Dec 2022, 2:00 am

geoff wrote:
As harsh as it sounds, it all actually makes perfect sense for those of us that have been paying attention to the rising prevalence of sovereign citizen rhetoric and conspiratorial behaviour.

It starts low key - have a look at any of the numerous threads on this very forum about something like covid masking, for example. Their mannerisms and quotes are much more common than we give them credit for. This stuff is a terrible pox on a polite society.


Well, first thing is your mindset. Do you see yourself as a subject to the government or does the government work for you?

As we have seen from covid, government lied and did a lot of vicious, nasty, totalitarian stuff of which many need to be brought to justice for. We know now from data that what was told to the people in regards to masks, vaccines and lockdowns that it was all false, not to mention the origins of the virus and all the wet market poppycock.

Government has to be held to a standard of truth, honesty, openness and integrity. If government is not held accountable to that standard, their behavior will get worse and worse. If you take covid again as an example, the right thing for government to do was to be open to debate and encourage a free discussion for solutions. By not doing that, pretty much every justification they used for what they did turned out to be wrong and did nothing to stop any spread.
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Re: Qld police shooting

Post by wanneroo » 23 Dec 2022, 2:13 am

Lazarus wrote:
It is a tough question though, the successful pre-emptive removal or even de-escalation of these far right conspiracy types.
How do they do it without overly intrusive surveillance on all the rest of us?

How much personal surveillance are we willing to put up with to ensure they can achieve it?

It seems all the dots were on the page, just that nobody took the time to join them up.


So here is the thing in regards to surveillance.

Are you looking to surveil and imprison people simply for their personal beliefs and opinions?

Or are you looking to surveil for the purpose of stopping people from doing behavior outside the bounds of civil behavior such as violent destructive behavior?

Sounds to me you are more interested in surveilling people for the purposes of identifying people that do not agree with Orwellian one think dictated from the television and government. I'd suspect those in the Australian government are probably thinking the same.

I think this is the big issue right now with "western" governments. We are going through this right now in the USA with the "deep state" working with media and social media companies not for the purpose of identifying people who may be planning violent action, but simply people who have different views and opinions from the group think. I am sure you have heard recently of the "Twitter Files"? The FBI was working with contacts at Twitter to ban people for things as simple as posting a funny meme they didn't like.
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Re: Qld police shooting

Post by wanneroo » 23 Dec 2022, 2:19 am

Oldbloke wrote:https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-12-22/qld-police-shooting-wieambilla-warrant-nathaniel-train-/101800366


So more comes out and the individual had prior contact with police on multiple occasions and the police just were not turning up for a welfare check.

They are desperately trying to spin this into some sort of anti government thing but it seems to me there is some sort of weird love triangle going on among other things.

I'm sure there is much more they are not telling the public and there is more to uncover.
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Re: Qld police shooting

Post by womble » 23 Dec 2022, 2:23 am

Pfft. Your government lied, not ours.
It’s a virus that spreads through contact with other people. Simple as that.
We did what we always do. As best we could, try and isolate ourselves, wear masks. Try not to sneeze of each other. Disinfect s**t.
Common sense stuff.
Don’t really need your government to point that out to you but they like to pretend they’re useful.
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Re: Qld police shooting

Post by womble » 23 Dec 2022, 2:47 am

wanneroo wrote:
Oldbloke wrote:https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-12-22/qld-police-shooting-wieambilla-warrant-nathaniel-train-/101800366


So more comes out and the individual had prior contact with police on multiple occasions and the police just were not turning up for a welfare check.

They are desperately trying to spin this into some sort of anti government thing but it seems to me there is some sort of weird love triangle going on among other things.

I'm sure there is much more they are not telling the public and there is more to uncover.


I’m sure there’s a lot being uncovered that the media and public is not privy to. We have a cult to smash. The kind that suicides and homicides.
Authorities are not trying to spin it into anything but that.
They self identified as sovereign citizens through their own social media and YouTube channel. Anti gov.
Love triangle, yes. But more Alabama style. Not really weird or uncommon in those parts.
Unfortunately they also indulged in some Qtard mind ****** . Throw in some pre existing mental illness and we got some extremist fanatics who wanted to go out with a bang.
Anyway, they have friends. We will find them and smash them all the way to hell.
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Re: Qld police shooting

Post by Lazarus » 23 Dec 2022, 9:12 am

wanneroo wrote:
Sounds to me you are more interested in surveilling people for the purposes of identifying people that do not agree with Orwellian one think dictated from the television and government. I'd suspect those in the Australian government are probably thinking the same.


Please, don't try to judge me by your standards.
You know absolutely nothing about me.

It's true, I don't know any more about you either, but I do think anyone who identifies as a far right, fundamentalist christian, sovereign, conspiracy riddled fringe dweller is a loon, and that seems to trouble you.

But here's the thing, that's the free expression you guys espouse.
You are free to believe I'm a groupthink government drone and I'm free to think you're somewhat unhinged.

Vive la difference wanneroo.

On the surveillance question, I'm not a big fan, but if you're not up to something dodgy you have little to fear, but if someone has a past history of antisocial or sociopathic behaviour, I have no problem with them being watched 24/7.
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Re: Qld police shooting

Post by womble » 23 Dec 2022, 10:42 am

Wannaroot may have some looney theories Lazarus. So do many people.
My own personal conspiracy theory is that mchughb might be an idiot. By that's entirely theoretical. It's not a proven fact.
And therein lies the difference. Theory and fact. Most people can distinguish the difference. You can still have theories and be grounded in reality. That would include wannaroot and generally most people.

These three murderers were not grounded in reality. They existed in a world of madness and paranoia. They abandoned rationality and logic. Their theories became their reality. They couldn't differentiate. The demons were very real to them.
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Re: Qld police shooting

Post by Lazarus » 23 Dec 2022, 2:07 pm

Excellent way to put it, womble.
I agree, and I'm not suggesting it's a genuine widespread problem or that our friend from the US is likely to do anything at all similar.
He seems totally rational, when I said "unhinged" it was probably a poor choice of words.
I feel the same about devout religious belief.

I do, cross into generalisation occasionally, but I did not here.

I just find it profoundly curious, the things some people actually believe, but as I've stated before, I'm all for the believers of things I find strange to hold those beliefs as long as they don't let personal shyte twist it into something dangerous.

As to your personal theory, I believe the Olympian levels of dedicated onanism shown by the subject to be rather irrefutable proof of that theory.
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