Magnumitis.... why is it so?

[MalleeFarmer]

i have a question about the validity of magnum cartridges i fully understand the "because I can" reasoning. But from a practical, useful and necessity standpoint is there really a reason to own them anywhere short of the cape/gulf region. Why does there seem to be a growing obsession with huge velocities and massive recoil? What benefits does a magnum present at 99% of hunting needs inside 400yds unless you're shooting buff or maybe scrubbers. Just curious as to others thoughts.

[on_one_wheel]

I'd guess it's to do with the long range shooting scene. I'm very tempted to have a go.

[MalleeFarmer]

I understand from an ultra long range target shooters perspective. But I mean people that hunt thinking they need huge big cases and ultra high velocity to kill something. Why is it becoming so popular when it used to be an accepted norm that nothing bigger than the ol three-oh was necessary.

[bladeracer]

i have a question about the validity of magnum cartridges i fully understand the "because I can" reasoning. But from a practical, useful and necessity standpoint is there really a reason to own them anywhere short of the cape/gulf region. Why does there seem to be a growing obsession with huge velocities and massive recoil? What benefits does a magnum present at 99% of hunting needs inside 400yds unless you're shooting buff or maybe scrubbers. Just curious as to others thoughts.

I've been looking at this recently, my neighbour chose .300WSM for Sambar and I couldn't work out why

A handful of magnums make significantly more velocity than non-magnum rounds of similar caliber - .22WMR, .357 Magnum, 7mm and .300 Remington Ultra Mags, and .257 Weatherby Magnum are stand-outs that live up to the magnum tag in my opinion - most of the rest are magnums by marketing only.
More velocity gives you flatter shooting, less wind deflection, deeper penetration and longer/heavier bullets, that can dump a lot more energy into your target.
For example, .308 calibers generally push 220gn bullets around the 2400fps mark, the magnums push that up to 2700fps+.
In 7mm you generally push a 175gn bullet to around 2500fps, the magnums can push it past 3000fps.

I started wondering, if I'm going to get a .308 why wouldn't I just get a .300 WSM and load it down to .308. I doubt I need the "magnum" abilities of the cartridge generally, but by simply putting some more powder in I have that extra thump readily available as quickly as I can chamber a round from my pocket. Something like a 180gn at 2400fps for general use and some 220gn, 2600fps rounds in my pocket for the toughest of targets.
In the end I decided the .308 for hunting is already quite capable due to the enormous bullet choice available.
For target shooting way past 1000m, then the magnums might have more to offer.

[AusTac]

As the calibers + wildcats are growing ego's are too

[MalleeFarmer]

I too am of the opinion that it's purely becoming a pissing contest as "mine is bigger than yours" I honestly think there is nothing in OZ a well placed shot from a .308, .30-06, .270 or .303 won't take cleanly and quickly I believe these are quite surely reasonable calibers for Australian Game and I would not feel undergunned with any of the above, save for buffalo and that could purely be from the unknown as I have never had the pleasure of hunting a buff or even seeing one closer than a few hundred yards.

[MR. WINCHESTER]

I suspect it's an ego thing ....

Recently had a discussion about same with sales dude at mega city gun shop.

He said they make a lot of money with young fellas buying something 'ridiculously big' and then finding out about the costs associated with 'stupidly massive', unbearable recoil and the difficulty in actually finding a place to shoot the bloody thing.

The 'proud new gun owner' soon darkens the stoop of gunshop, wanting to trade against something more sensible.

( .22 rimfire, .243 and 12 gauge for this black duck )

[Chronos]

Do you even hunt bro?

90% of Magnum cartridges have nothing what so ever to do with long range and have a long history hunting all kinds of game under 200y. Once animals get over a certain size the rate at which it bleeds makes a difference to your chances of finding it. Something like a .338 or 358 or 375 can make an excellent big pig/deer gun and still be carried all day while and is an acceptable step up from a .308, .270 or 30-06. Something like .40 cal and up can be a minimum in some areas of australia and anyone who says "But 30-06 is plenty of gun for Buff" has never heard someone who shoots 50 buff a year talk about a bull who took half a pound of lead to bring down. Shooting a dangerous animal like that is not something you want take the risk with

Besides all that, what's wrong with "just because"? surely we can just enjoy shooting stuff that kicks, shoots flat, doesn't make much noise or even doesn't even burn powder

Chronos

[MR. WINCHESTER]

Do you even hunt bro?

To whom do you refer to, Bro ?

[Chronos]

Do you even hunt bro?

To whom do you refer to, Bro ?

No one in particular, just a general use of internet vernacular.

Who says we have to use the smallest suitable cartridge and why not shoot a .338WM instead of a 30-06?

Chronos

[MR. WINCHESTER]

None, to my knowledge ....

( certainly NOT me )

It's just that ....

[bladeracer]

Do you even hunt bro?

90% of Magnum cartridges have nothing what so ever to do with long range and have a long history hunting all kinds of game under 200y. Once animals get over a certain size the rate at which it bleeds makes a difference to your chances of finding it. Something like a .338 or 358 or 375 can make an excellent big pig/deer gun and still be carried all day while and is an acceptable step up from a .308, .270 or 30-06. Something like .40 cal and up can be a minimum in some areas of australia and anyone who says "But 30-06 is plenty of gun for Buff" has never heard someone who shoots 50 buff a year talk about a bull who took half a pound of lead to bring down. Shooting a dangerous animal like that is not something you want take the risk with

Besides all that, what's wrong with "just because"? surely we can just enjoy shooting stuff that kicks, shoots flat, doesn't make much noise or even doesn't even burn powder

Chronos

You don't seem to be addressing the thread at all, it's about magnums not large calibers.
Yes, a .358 makes a big hole and dumps a heap of energy, but would you take a .358 Remington Magnum when the .35 Whelen has identical ballistics?

[Heckler303]

Once animals get over a certain size the rate at which it bleeds makes a difference to your chances of finding it.

Wait, what? You can't just place a shot in the head/neck region and make it drop on the spot? Sorry, that just sounds like poor marksmanship there.

"But 30-06 is plenty of gun for Buff" has never heard someone who shoots 50 buff a year talk about a bull who took half a pound of lead to bring down.

I call BS on that. My father has hunted buffalo with the venerable .303 for years, and that's because he could place both head and neckshots, not just line up it's arse, jerk off the trigger, then have to go chase a wounded animal. So many of these magnum-crazy people have big calibers simply because they believe it'll make them a better shooter.

All it says is that "Hey, my wee-wee is the same length as a 22 short, better get me a 460 weatherby."

[Gwion]

Heckler, you will find that the perfect shot does not always present itself. Sometimes allowing a bit more gun offers more options for a quick, humane kill.

Also, it's not just about hitting the 'head & neck area'. Shot placement has to be considerably more precise than that if you don't want a wounded animal charging off..... Or at you!

[AusTac]

Lets all just get a 700 nitro express, we can just walk around picking up the big bits

[on_one_wheel]

I think Chronos nailed it.

There is no such thing as too much gun and "just because" is more than enough reasoning for me.

The last thing we need is more fudds.

[bladeracer]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_dtC6ZOR3w

This should do the job.

[MalleeFarmer]

Bladeracer what 7mm fires a 175gr at 3000fps also yes I'm not at all opposed to large calibers I do like the idea of a .35whelen and the 9.3x62 even the .338Fed all mild cartridges that make big holes. I just don't see the reason for such a craze for magnums. I guess I don't see the reason for the hipster movement either but we have that.... don't get me wrong if you want one buy it by all means if a .340wby tickles your fancy or a .458wm who am I to judge. Also I did make the point I am experienceless as far as buff go and am not qualified to comment on them as far as what I need to kill them.

[Chronos]

GW ....

Your assumption / assertion that 'a bit more gun, will fill the void' is almost talking about : 'near enough is good enough'

YES/ NO ?

Fixed


I think he's saying better to have a little too much gun and than a little not enough.

always better to carry the biggest gun you can shoot accurately when targeting large or dangerous game is one way i've heard it put.

I think a few of you guys should come to the range and shoot something bigger than 6mm and see how much fun it is and that the challenge of shooting a big gun well is reward enough, even if you never hunt with it

Chronos

[Gwion]

GW ....

Your assumption / assertiion that 'a bit more gun, will fill the void' is almost talking about : 'near enough is good enough'

YES/ NO ?

That is a bit of a silly question. If you read my posts properly you will see that is a NO.

It's got nothing to do with filling the void. If you are going into a hunting situation with a firearm that demands you only take brain and central nervous system shots and pass up all others, then you are going in under gunned and it is rather unethical (in my book). If your firearm is not capable of taking out the quarry cleanly with a heart/lung shot then you are risking some bad wounding if you make an error or the animal moves as you squeeze the trigger.

I do quite a bit of pest control and majority of my shots are brain shots but sometimes you just have to take the heart/lung shot and count on a very quick bleed out. Most of these pests will go down to a 22lr but i prefer to use my 223rem loaded down to about 1850fps with highly frangible bullets because it guarantees the chest shots will be immediately fatal if the instant death option of a central nervous system shot is not presented.

[bladeracer]

I think Chronos nailed it.

There is no such thing as too much gun and "just because" is more than enough reasoning for me.

The last thing we need is more fudds.

I have no problem with somebody wanting to own or shoot something simply because they enjoy it, that should be everybody's right. And I prefer to see people hunting with firearms that are more than merely "adequate under ideal conditions". If more gun makes for a more humane kill then use it. I often see comments, particularly on US forums, along the lines of "don't use too much gun because it destroys too much meat". You don't put your freezer before the welfare of your quarry. When all you had were .303's then that's what you had to use, and you learned to get the best results with that. But nowadays we have much more capable cartridges and bullets, without even having to go to "magnums", and in fairness to the animal we should endeavour to use them.
I think this discussion though is about the perceived tangible benefits of "magnum" cartridges over non-magnums that can do the same job.

[Gwion]

I do struggle to see the point of using magnums that have bugger all improvement over a 'standard' chambering. Burning twice the powder for 50fps gain just seems pointless to me. If you want to, go for it, but i can think of better ways to waste my money!

[bladeracer]

Bladeracer what 7mm fires a 175gr at 3000fps also yes I'm not at all opposed to large calibers I do like the idea of a .35whelen and the 9.3x62 even the .338Fed all mild cartridges that make big holes. I just don't see the reason for such a craze for magnums. I guess I don't see the reason for the hipster movement either but we have that.... don't get me wrong if you want one buy it by all means if a .340wby tickles your fancy or a .458wm who am I to judge. Also I did make the point I am experienceless as far as buff go and am not qualified to comment on them as far as what I need to kill them.

Hmmm...7mm Remington Ultra Magnum should do 3000fps easy enough. I had a mate with a 7mm RemMag and I don't think that goes quite that hard. 7mm Weatherby Magnum and .280 Nosler would go close.

If I ever felt I wanted to shoot a buffalo I'd be leaning toward .458 WinMag, if I could find one with a good muzzle brake.

[happyhunter]

i have a question about the validity of magnum cartridges i fully understand the "because I can" reasoning. But from a practical, useful and necessity standpoint is there really a reason to own them anywhere short of the cape/gulf region. Why does there seem to be a growing obsession with huge velocities and massive recoil? What benefits does a magnum present at 99% of hunting needs inside 400yds unless you're shooting buff or maybe scrubbers. Just curious as to others thoughts.

The term magnum is relative. The 17HMR is considered a magnum rimfire, the 22 magnum, and some people regard the 204 Ruger as a magnum and the 30-06 to be on the borderline. But for the purpose of this question, lets compare 30 cals.

What benefits does a magnum present at 99% of hunting needs inside 400yds unless you're shooting buff or maybe scrubbers

308 Winchester shooting 180 grain SP, 3"@125 yard, MPBR 259 yards
300 Win Mag shooting 180 grain SP, 3"@150 yards, MPBR 303 yards.

So if you were taking a heart/lung shot at a deer at 300 yards the 300WM would keep you in the 6" diameter kill zone without need for hold over. I'd consider that a useful advantage. Also, more velocity (for the same projectile) means less wind drift, another advantage when hunting.

On contrary, target shooters have plenty of time to adjust for a shot, at known distance and controlled conditions so have less reason to use a magnum although I can see why they would choose one for shooting beyond 700 meters.

[Gwion]

284 Shehane would nudge 3000fps with 175s.

[MalleeFarmer]

Anyway... like was mentioned the post is more about a Growing Obsession with Big Magnums when most of the time something in the more intermediate range or .308, .30-06 will be plenty enough gun. I understand for Buff being dangerous and tough. But why when we go after game south of the gulf do so many carry magnums?

[Chronos]

Bladeracer what 7mm fires a 175gr at 3000fps also yes I'm not at all opposed to large calibers I do like the idea of a .35whelen and the 9.3x62 even the .338Fed all mild cartridges that make big holes. I just don't see the reason for such a craze for magnums. I guess I don't see the reason for the hipster movement either but we have that.... don't get me wrong if you want one buy it by all means if a .340wby tickles your fancy or a .458wm who am I to judge. Also I did make the point I am experienceless as far as buff go and am not qualified to comment on them as far as what I need to kill them.

plenty of guys shooting 180 bergers in the 2900-3050 range every Saturday in F open shooting .280 AI's and SAUMS and they're not even real Magnums

Chronos

[bladeracer]

plenty of guys shooting 180 bergers in the 2900-3050 range every Saturday in F open shooting .280 AI's and SAUMS and they're not even real Magnums

Chronos

Why isn't the Ultra Magnum a real magnum?

[Oldbloke]

Better to be a little over gunned than under gunned.
The 308, .30-06, .270's are plenty for 95% of situations.
I'm sure there are a few situations where a magnum is a better choice than the 308, .30-06, .270's. There is always the odd exception. If you want to shoot sambar at 500 mtr they wou,d be great. But in my view, it aint very sporting.

BUT, sales must love them as mentioned earlier. Mostly a big dick thing. But small brain. Why pay more $ for more recoil, energy and speed that is not needed. A bit like buying 25 kg of sugar for your coffee. About every ten or so years they come back into fasion then fade away again.

Just my two bobs worth.

[brett1868]

Thank Jesus, Allah and Buddha neither the .416 Barrett or 50BMG is a Magnum or I'd be accused of have a small dick

I think the Magnum designation is more about putting a heavier bullet at the same velocity as a non-magnum at the same range. I haven't really thought much about the magnum classification as I just consider it as a chambering same as any other.