An interesting comparison ?

[Die Judicii]

The all too often catch cry by the gun control advocates, that firearms stolen from LAFO's end up with criminals; coupled with their ideal solution that if firearm numbers are held static or decreased, that would solve the problem.

An interesting comparison can be made here with Cars and Trucks.

There has always been the problem of vehicles being stolen, and to combat it the vehicle manufacturers have for many years been trying to make it harder and harder to steal a motor vehicle.

Although it may have slowed the problem a little bit,, vehicles are still being stolen on a daily basis.

Try as we might, there will always be a thief that manages somehow to achieve his object.

[Deacon]

The cars vs guns comparison has been done to death and for good reason. Its absolutely relevant and the arguments make sense more often then not. Unfortunately for us the antis hear what they want to hear, logic has nothing to do with firearms legislation in this country anymore.

[Oldbloke]

Yep, and I think more deaths too.

[Gwion]

The cars vs guns comparison has been done to death and for good reason. Its absolutely relevant and the arguments make sense more often then not. Unfortunately for us the antis hear what they want to hear, logic has nothing to do with firearms legislation in this country anymore.

Unfortunately; and I'm guilty of this too; we're preaching to the choir. And it works both ways.

Trying to convince people who are against firearms is kind of pointless.
Getting people who are neutral to realise that responsible firearms ownership not only is no threat to themselves but represents core freedoms for the wider community.

How do we do that?

[deadkitty]

The cars vs guns comparison has been done to death and for good reason. Its absolutely relevant and the arguments make sense more often then not. Unfortunately for us the antis hear what they want to hear, logic has nothing to do with firearms legislation in this country anymore.

Unfortunately; and I'm guilty of this too; we're preaching to the choir. And it works both ways.

Trying to convince people who are against firearms is kind of pointless.
Getting people who are neutral to realise that responsible firearms ownership not only is no threat to themselves but represents core freedoms for the wider community.

How do we do that?

Just a suggestion, stop some shooters calling anyone who is indifferent to guns , a fudd, greentard and similar names on forums such as this would be a good start. Just because someone has no interest in a particular sport, or branch of a sport, does not give people the right to insult and slag them off.
Suggestion two, get involved with your local community, not your gun club, something else....like you said it's pointless preaching to the converted.
Respond to incorrect firearms complaints in a calm reasoned way instead of flying into the usual name calling and bitterness, the person might just have a legitimate point ...or simply be poorly informed.
I could go on.....and on..... it's basically a matter of respect for someone elses point of view. Cheers

[Gwion]

Reinforcing my point, DK.

I just got back from a club meeting. A few years ago I incorporated a local photo and arts club and implemented an annual fund raising project that show cases the local area through the eyes of local photo buffs. This year I organised and catered a winter feast for 140 people to raise money for the local community.....

I talk freely about shooting with shooters and non shooters alike.

I do everything you just mentioned.

You are preaching to the choir, mate.

[deadkitty]

Reinforcing my point, DK.

I just got back from a club meeting. A few years ago I incorporated a local photo and arts club and implemented an annual fund raising project that show cases the local area through the eyes of local photo buffs. This year I organised and catered a winter feast for 140 people to raise money for the local community.....

I talk freely about shooting with shooters and non shooters alike.

I do everything you just mentioned.

You are preaching to the choir, mate.

Yep, sorry, my comments weren't directed personally at you Gwion but to shooters in general, we all need to behave responsibly and be judged by our actions. By the sound of it we should all be a little more like you Cheers

[happyhunter]

but to shooters in general, we all need to behave responsibly and be judged by our actions.

If Australian's in general behaved the same way that the vast majority of licensed shooters then crime in general would be virtually non existent. I think you need to stop preaching to the choir.

[Gwion]

Reinforcing my point, DK.

I just got back from a club meeting. A few years ago I incorporated a local photo and arts club and implemented an annual fund raising project that show cases the local area through the eyes of local photo buffs. This year I organised and catered a winter feast for 140 people to raise money for the local community.....

I talk freely about shooting with shooters and non shooters alike.

I do everything you just mentioned.

You are preaching to the choir, mate.

Yep, sorry, my comments weren't directed personally at you Gwion but to shooters in general, we all need to behave responsibly and be judged by our actions. By the sound of it we should all be a little more like you Cheers

Dunno if my wife would agree with that last bit.... Could end in a few divorces!

[bladeracer]

The cars vs guns comparison has been done to death and for good reason. Its absolutely relevant and the arguments make sense more often then not. Unfortunately for us the antis hear what they want to hear, logic has nothing to do with firearms legislation in this country anymore.

Unfortunately; and I'm guilty of this too; we're preaching to the choir. And it works both ways.

Trying to convince people who are against firearms is kind of pointless.
Getting people who are neutral to realise that responsible firearms ownership not only is no threat to themselves but represents core freedoms for the wider community.

How do we do that?

In the SSAA survey last week I said I'd like to see shooting groups holding competitions that benefit their local communities.
I don't know how we would go about such a thing but I'm sure it's possible.
Like the motorcycle toyruns for example.
Do we have any trick display shooters here or would that be illegal nowadays?
What about getting shooting galleries happening again?

Actually, pretty much everything I said in the survey was about making non-shooters more aware of shooting sports.
Sending me information about shooting benefits nobody outside of SSAA.
Sending that information to non-shooters instead benefits everybody.
Simply sending out a survey to non-shooters would've been more beneficial than surveying existing shooters about shooting.

Put a full page in the newspapers surveying readers regarding what they know about shooting, gauging their interest and inviting them along to have a go would be a start. I'm more than happy to give up my SSAA/F&G/ADA/etc magazines and junkmail and have that money put toward bringing new people in.

Queensland and WA have an advantage in that they don't even need range facilities for unlicenced shooters. Invite scout groups, girl guides, church groups, any of the myriad groups that meet to entertain themselves. I've heard of companies putting on paintball days, abseiling days, even skydiving for their employees, that's who we need to be talking to.

I had an idea that once I've put together a collection of the rifles of the world wars it'd be awesome if school kids could see and handle them, or even better shoot them. I'd happily wear the cost of the ammunition if it teaches kids about firearms. In Perth we had an outstanding miltary smallarms museum that died due to Howard. When I asked where they'd all gone I was told they were all crated up and hidden away...probably never to be seen again.

[Gwion]

Some good ideas there, Bladeracer.

[deadkitty]

Great ideas blade, as an ex boy scout, I know that we ALL wanted to have a go at shooting, but the regs and insurance killed the idea, although we did get to learn archery..... no Boy Scouts were harmed in the learning of this activity. Cheers

[MalleeFarmer]

The cars to guns comparison is definately a valid one. But there are also valid arguments against it which I'm not interested in going into now. Having said that and talking about preaching to the converted. I am yet to find an "anti" when spoken to one on one that I can not at the very least get to soften their views against guns and see at least some of my side of the story as a legal licenced shooter.

[Die Judicii]

The cars to guns comparison is definately a valid one. But there are also valid arguments against it which I'm not interested in going into now. Having said that and talking about preaching to the converted. I am yet to find an "anti" when spoken to one on one that I can not at the very least get to soften their views against guns and see at least some of my side of the story as a legal licenced shooter.

Can I point you in the direction of PETA ??????

[Nice5hot]

I think participation is key. I was anti guns about 4 months ago, then i went and shot some clays and now I have my firearms licence and dropped a deposit on a new beretta yesterday.
When you are not involved in the shooting world, your only exposure is gun violence in the news (pretty much every story out of America) and unfortunately that moulds your views. Participating and seeing the amount of safety control and regulations makes you see the huge distinction between the sport and the news on TV.
I'm still not about to go hunting, I'm just going to break some clays, but now I respect the rights of law abiding shooters to do what they choose.
Get people involved, that's how you'll make change.

[happyhunter]

..because killing animals is wrong?

[Nice5hot]

Because my personal choice is not to hunt, it's just not something I want to do.

[doc]

Some good ideas there, Bladeracer.

+1

I haven't been to a show in decades, but when I was a kid I remember them having air rifles at a show with the moving ducks. Of course the sites were out, etc - but it wasn't frowned upon, and anyone could pay their two bob's worth to have a bit of a plink.

Are they still available at shows? If not, I'd be willing to put into a fund via the SSAA or otherwise to help prop them back up again to help get these into shows. (If the laws would permit?)

I figure this sort of interaction with the public to allow someone to handle a real firearm and have some experience that firearms can be fun and safe to use with a positive experience could help.

[happyhunter]

Because my personal choice is not to hunt, it's just not something I want to do.

A choice based on experience, or a moral objection? Just curious.

[Nice5hot]

I don't have any moral objection. I've been hunting with my old man when I was a kid, it's just not for me.

[deadkitty]

Shooting metal ducks at the fairground is what got me into my first air rifle.... I think kids are missing out on a lot of fun, Cheers