What gun laws would you change?

Questions about New South Wales gun and ammunition laws. NSW Firearms Act 1996.

What gun laws would you change?

Post by wade06 » 27 Oct 2016, 5:02 pm

It's been well publicised that Senator David Leyonhjelm is trying to get the 7 shot Adler import ban lifted.
It got me thinking, what laws would you want to see changed most (realistically) and do you think it will happen?

Personally...
1) Lift restrictions on sound moderators (silencers). I think they should be treated like a class A/B weapon and registered to a person.
2) Allow semi auto rimfire 22LR rifles under class A (maybe to 10 shots?). Personally I don't think we should allow easier access to semi auto centrefires as much as i would like one.
3) Allow pump actions and semi auto shot guns (probably to 5 shots?).
EDIT 4) Relax silly restrictions on paintball and airsoft guns and equipment. Should be available under class A at worst.

I doubt 2 and 3 will ever happen... sound moderators may happen but i'm not holding my breath. :huh:

I'm sure there are some others I would change but that's a start.
Last edited by wade06 on 27 Oct 2016, 5:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What gun laws would you change?

Post by <<Genesis93>> » 27 Oct 2016, 5:25 pm

Simple....

License individuals.
If you're ok to own a gun, you get a licence. There is then 2 categories of firearm;

category 1 - OK.
category 2 -nokay.

simple. Cat 2 would be all the stuff that is really 'bad' bazookas, missile launchers etc..stuff that can cause 'mass casualties'....if youre deemed fit to own a firearm, if you're not likely to 'go postal' then a select fire AR15 or a single shot rimfire.... same same.

If you try to cause harm, you can kill with a 22 rimfire just as you can with a auto centrefire 22 (AR15/m4/m16)

No PTAs and remove non-firearms from the consideration of the firearm law, air guns etc.
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Re: What gun laws would you change?

Post by Browning » 27 Oct 2016, 5:33 pm

I'd make the license system staggered; so you start with your A/B as per normal.
After (insert x number of years) let's do 5 years, you can now apply for your Cat C, since you have clearly demonstrated appropriate safety and use of a firearm at this stage.
After another 5 years, you can apply for a Cat D, if again you've demonstrated yourself to be a safe and of sound mind person...
Suppressors for example might become available to you on your Cat C....
Just my thoughts...
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Re: What gun laws would you change?

Post by doc » 27 Oct 2016, 5:38 pm

1) I'd follow Canada and NZ's lead and drop the firearm registry. It's more of a security risk than an asset.

I see this as a possibility when the government wakes up to how much cash they could be saving, plus if it ever got out the security breaches that have occurred in the past due to this and/or inspections.



2) I'd drop the requirement for shops to record names and addresses of firearm or ammo purchases. (If they need a compromise for this to go through, have shops record the license number only)

I see this as a possibility if we can get some people to actually pay attention to the risk



3) I'd drop the requirement for police inspections of law abiding firearm owners to free up their resources. If a compromise was really required, have peers do inspections (such as club officials, or other licensed firearm owners - but I don't think this is required anyway).

I see this as a unlikely possibility


4) Re-introduce allowing unlicensed people to handle and use a firearm under the direct supervision of a firearm owner on private property. (Not limited to just the ranges).

I see this as a unlikely possibility as there's no incentive for politicians to bring it back this way except removing non-effecitve restrictions - which doesn't work well in politics. They seem to need a better reason.



5) Drop the requirements for proof of ownership of firearm to purchase the same ammunition. (WA). Showing license with correct category should be all that's required.

I see this as a possibility if governments could take emotion out of their decisions, or if we go with a federal standard across all states



6) Legalise silencers.

I see this as a possibility - already happening in at least one state I believe, and it is a health and safety issue which seems to be the fad with governments atm.




7) Re-allocate semi auto .22's back into A or B category.

Unlikely - when you see the rubbish raised about the difference between a 5 & 7 shot adler, people will cry about kittens


8) Remove the requirement for a firearm license for a paintball marker. (They're a toy for crying out loud - there's plenty of other toys out there that can hurt people more... I haven't heard of anyone being killed with a paintball marker - but I have baseball bats)!

I have no idea of the likelyhood of this



9) Remove the over restrictions around childrens firearm toys.

I have no idea of the likelyhood of this


10) Allow collectable firearms (that have been permanently disabled) to be mounted on the walls, or otherwise. (No need for them to be in a safe).

Unlikely - because once again - nothing to be gained by politicians, or savings to be had


11) Change the laws so that Police can take away firearms if an accusation is made - however there would be a time limit for the police to charge you with an offense, which if after that time they have failed to do so, you should get your firearms back. As mentioned in a previous thread - one should not need to fight and produce evidence that they're innocent.

Unlikely - because once again - nothing to be gained by politicians, or savings to be had


12) If firearms have been confiscated and confiscation deemed not necessary - firearms should be returned in the same time frame that they were confiscated - not having the person wait weeks or months afterwards to get them back.

Unlikely - because once again - nothing to be gained by politicians, or savings to be had


13) Provide an avenue for people to get training and obtain a license for Tasers or Pepper Spray. Especially convenience store people, or other shop owners in risk areas.

A possibility, but sadly I think that crime will have to get worse before it's considered


I could go on, but 13's my lucky number. :D
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Re: What gun laws would you change?

Post by Deacon » 27 Oct 2016, 5:54 pm

Easy. I'd move the Adler to category c with all the other semi automatics. :sarcasm:

Really though, semi auto rimfires should be category A. Why can I have a 15 round lever action but not a 5 round auto loader? That's not a safety issue that's some pollies being scared of the word automatic.

I'd also have suppressors made legal to licensed firearm owners because that IS a safety issue. I don't think whoever came up with suppressor legislation has ever heard how loud centre fire gunshots really are, even with a suppressor. Easily enough to send you deaf.

Pump actions to category A because a standard A/B license holder can have pump rifles so why not pump shotguns? Doesn't make sense.

I'm sure there is plenty more I'll think of throughout the night
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Re: What gun laws would you change?

Post by happyhunter » 27 Oct 2016, 6:47 pm

1, No gun rego.
2. Remove genuine reason. Not being a crim should be good enough.
3. No restrictions on long arms. Pumps ok, self loaders ok, no limits on magazine capacity. AR, SLR, etc.. without select fire ok.
4. Add a proficiency test to license application, ie. demonstrate you know how to properly handle/use/maintain your firearm.
5. Sound moderators, no restrictions or conditions to own and use.
6. As above applied to handguns.
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Re: What gun laws would you change?

Post by Heckler303 » 27 Oct 2016, 7:46 pm

Alright, let's begin. Feel free to disagree.


1. Genuine reasons: Abolished.
2. Registry: Abolished (perhaps keeping it only for handguns, rest is a waste of time and money)
3. PTAs: Abolished. (Is there any point to them in the first place?)
4. Cometic laws: Abolished (No, making it tacticool doesn't make it any more deadly.)
5. Magazine limit: Up to 30 for removable mags, n/a for fixed.
6. Toy laws: Abolished (every other commonwealth country is no where near as bad as us.)
7. Deregulate Air Rifles up to a certain FPS.
8. Pump/Semi shotguns to cat A, as well as semi auto rimfires. Free suppressors as well.
9. Semi automatic centrefires into Cat B only after a full year of holding the licence without any penalization.
10. Self defence items being legalized. Non lethal items for unlicensed individuals, with with I.D requirement upon purchase plus evidence of good behavior.


BONUS = While not strictly gun law related, I'd make SSAA get into gear and start working with us, not just sodding off the community by occasionally sending a weak 'formal' letter to someone who just puts them into a shredder.
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Re: What gun laws would you change?

Post by happyhunter » 28 Oct 2016, 7:24 am

Heckler303 wrote:Alright, let's begin. Feel free to disagree.


1. Genuine reasons: Abolished.
2. Registry: Abolished (perhaps keeping it only for handguns, rest is a waste of time and money)
3. PTAs: Abolished. (Is there any point to them in the first place?)
4. Cometic laws: Abolished (No, making it tacticool doesn't make it any more deadly.)
5. Magazine limit: Up to 30 for removable mags, n/a for fixed.
6. Toy laws: Abolished (every other commonwealth country is no where near as bad as us.)
7. Deregulate Air Rifles up to a certain FPS.
8. Pump/Semi shotguns to cat A, as well as semi auto rimfires. Free suppressors as well.
9. Semi automatic centrefires into Cat B only after a full year of holding the licence without any penalization.
10. Self defence items being legalized. Non lethal items for unlicensed individuals, with with I.D requirement upon purchase plus evidence of good behavior.


BONUS = While not strictly gun law related, I'd make SSAA get into gear and start working with us, not just sodding off the community by occasionally sending a weak 'formal' letter to someone who just puts them into a shredder.


I could live with those changes :D
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Re: What gun laws would you change?

Post by Lokvo » 28 Oct 2016, 10:57 am

Being a newbie I agree with all the changes proposed here :) my 2 cents is a pipe dream; the ability to use firearms (provided your a licensed etc) as a self defense measure within the confines of your home/property but that'll never happen. As it stands if a crim breaks into your home to rob you and slips and breaks his arm while on your property he can sue you and win.
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Re: What gun laws would you change?

Post by pomemax » 28 Oct 2016, 12:24 pm

We should have NONE AT ALL when i first started shooting that is what we had for rifles and shottys of any type only thing we had was handgun licence .
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Re: What gun laws would you change?

Post by doc » 28 Oct 2016, 12:36 pm

I disagree with having no gun laws at all. There are criminals to contend with, and there are safety aspects as well such as restrictions on where someone can fire a centrefire.

But for the most part - I think there's come good suggestions made here.
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Re: What gun laws would you change?

Post by wade06 » 28 Oct 2016, 2:13 pm

doc +1.

You only need to look at America to see that it wouldn't be good.
I would like some gun law changes (see my OP) but the overwhelming majority of Australians would never support going down the US path.
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Re: What gun laws would you change?

Post by Heckler303 » 28 Oct 2016, 3:14 pm

wade06 wrote:doc +1.

You only need to look at America to see that it wouldn't be good.
I would like some gun law changes (see my OP) but the overwhelming majority of Australians would never support going down the US path.



What is this 'American Path' I constantly hear? America has it's laws already there, all they need is enforcement. Laws vary too much state to state just to make a generalization as well.
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Re: What gun laws would you change?

Post by wade06 » 28 Oct 2016, 3:46 pm

Heckler303 wrote:
What is this 'American Path' I constantly hear? America has it's laws already there, all they need is enforcement. Laws vary too much state to state just to make a generalization as well.


Like you said, laws vary a lot from state to state in the US (which is a massive problem in itself) but this is what I mean in by the "American path"... (without going through every state and their laws one by one).

- No background checks (criminal and/or mental health)
- No firearm registration
- No storage requirements
- Open carry allowed
- Permits not required to purchase a gun
- Little to no restriction on auto and semi autos.

Again these don't happen in all states but there are plenty that they do.
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Re: What gun laws would you change?

Post by <<Genesis93>> » 28 Oct 2016, 4:40 pm

Wade is FOS.

Seems to be the trends with a lot of his/her ramblings...
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Re: What gun laws would you change?

Post by <<Genesis93>> » 28 Oct 2016, 4:54 pm

Right... some observations on the topic of gun laws....

In Victoria Firearms were until 1972 defined specifically as;
NOT shotguns longer then 30in with longer then 16in barrel
NOT air guns.
Image

Then in 1972 they were regulated with Cat A, Cat B and Cat C, shotty, pea rifle, other rifle. Pea rifles were defined differently previously (I posted elsewhere I think)

Image

so if shotties were not regulated until '72....(not sure if this was consistent around the Nation) then the streets of suburban melbourne must have run red with blood caused by hordes of otherwise law abiding blokes (cause women are not violent we're told, as will the primary school kids also be told next year) would go postal with the general availability of rapid fire double barrel shotties and long range sniper singles....

Well.....
what actually happened nation wide in 72;
Image
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Re: What gun laws would you change?

Post by wade06 » 28 Oct 2016, 4:57 pm

Hey Genesis, their just my opinions on why our gun laws are better than the US .... pretty much all common sense.
Your more than welcome to tell me which ones you disagree with.

Fortunately the overwhelming majority of Australian voters are "FOS" which means we will NEVER get gun laws like the US..... :lol:
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Re: What gun laws would you change?

Post by wade06 » 28 Oct 2016, 5:04 pm

So Genesis, the regulation of shotguns in Victoria in 1972 caused the Australian homicide rate by all means to rise 50% over the next 17 years?

Pass me the long bow Jeeves... :huh:
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Re: What gun laws would you change?

Post by <<Genesis93>> » 28 Oct 2016, 5:21 pm

wade06 wrote:So Genesis, the regulation of shotguns in Victoria in 1972 caused the Australian homicide rate by all means to rise 50% over the next 17 years?

Pass me the long bow Jeeves... :huh:


Just call me Robin Hood...

Yes. I absolutely believe that the greater regulation of firearms leads to more criminal activity and violence.
Less arms in the hands of the lawful - more and bolder criminal activity...

I guess you're also in the GCA camp of delusional comtards and the "96 laws reduced gun death" moronic one-liner...and therefore the straight trend line 6 yrs either side of 96/97 doesnt really exist, right??
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Re: What gun laws would you change?

Post by Baronvonrort » 28 Oct 2016, 8:22 pm

I would have strict licensing then allow those who passed to have whatever firearms they want.
Self defence in your home would be allowed and concealed carry for those with strict rules.

I would even allow full auto with strict licensing as i don't fear that, the North Hollywood shootout had 2 offenders with full auto AK's who fired thousands of rounds yet they were the only ones killed.

The whole crux of good gun laws is not restricting what guns people can have it's restricting who can have them.
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Re: What gun laws would you change?

Post by Heckler303 » 29 Oct 2016, 8:21 am

Baronvonrort wrote:concealed carry for those with strict rules.



Such as not carrying with one in the chamber, Only drawing if absolutely necessary, proper holsters required, yeah?

I'd love to see the crime statistics in melbourne with home defence and cc being legalized.
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Re: What gun laws would you change?

Post by Baronvonrort » 29 Oct 2016, 8:56 am

Heckler303 wrote:
Baronvonrort wrote:concealed carry for those with strict rules.



Such as not carrying with one in the chamber, Only drawing if absolutely necessary, proper holsters required, yeah?

I'd love to see the crime statistics in melbourne with home defence and cc being legalized.


I would be happy with the Liberal Democrats proposed gun laws.

www.ldp.org.au/policy/firearms

The only way we will achieve this is with unity from shooters at voting time.
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Re: What gun laws would you change?

Post by Lokvo » 03 Nov 2016, 10:33 am

Baronvonrort wrote:
Heckler303 wrote:
Baronvonrort wrote:concealed carry for those with strict rules.



Such as not carrying with one in the chamber, Only drawing if absolutely necessary, proper holsters required, yeah?

I'd love to see the crime statistics in melbourne with home defence and cc being legalized.


I would be happy with the Liberal Democrats proposed gun laws.

http://www.ldp.org.au/policy/firearms

The only way we will achieve this is with unity from shooters at voting time.


Reading those proposed gun laws brought tears to my eyes. Especially the self-defence part. I'd rather have a firearm and never need it in such a situation than to not have one and absolutely need it.
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Re: What gun laws would you change?

Post by happyhunter » 03 Nov 2016, 1:20 pm

Baronvonrort wrote:
Heckler303 wrote:
Baronvonrort wrote:concealed carry for those with strict rules.



Such as not carrying with one in the chamber, Only drawing if absolutely necessary, proper holsters required, yeah?

I'd love to see the crime statistics in melbourne with home defence and cc being legalized.


I would be happy with the Liberal Democrats proposed gun laws.

http://www.ldp.org.au/policy/firearms

The only way we will achieve this is with unity from shooters at voting time.


haha.. but how many people would be happy with the LDP's proposed other laws? personally, being a purist libertarian, I like all their social policies bar the public health policy, but I rekon most people wouldn't like other LDP policies.
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Re: What gun laws would you change?

Post by Bigjobss » 03 Nov 2016, 8:11 pm

Suppressors would be very handy.
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Re: What gun laws would you change?

Post by Gun-nut » 03 Nov 2016, 9:29 pm

Genesis nailed it on the head. If your fit for a firearm, your licensed with a background check, you should have access to any firearm outside of modern military hardware. Given the amount of hoops we have to jump through to gain and maintain our firearm licences, you'd think we'd all be responsible to own semi's by now. Funny how 20 years ago, semi auto rifles were fine. Yet all of a sudden you must be a criminal if you want one. :crazy:

All our gun laws need changing. It's just ridiculous.
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Re: What gun laws would you change?

Post by Jd256 » 04 Nov 2016, 1:22 am

In America the States that have the most lax gun regs generally have the lowest crime rate. Areas of restrictive gun laws have the most violent crime. For example ,Chicago has the honor of having most restrictive gun laws in the states and also gets the award for most murders in one year. The bottom line is gun laws affect and are followed by law abiding citizens , criminals do not consult the regs when purchasing arms .The Americans know registration is the first step of confiscation, that's why the NRA and other organizations are dead set against the libs when Obama starts saying ''common sense gun laws'' which is lib code for we don't want you to have any weapons and we want to take them. They do have nationwide background checks contrary to what is said here when purchasing any firearm from a dealer. I have been there and I know, and you can buy long guns at K-mart lol
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Re: What gun laws would you change?

Post by bigfellascott » 04 Nov 2016, 5:04 am

doc wrote:I disagree with having no gun laws at all. There are criminals to contend with, and there are safety aspects as well such as restrictions on where someone can fire a centrefire.

But for the most part - I think there's come good suggestions made here.


How do laws affect criminals, last time I looked they don't follow the law. As for the rest it's common sense really I would have thought but apparently we need help in that department too. :roll:
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Re: What gun laws would you change?

Post by scotty87 » 04 Nov 2016, 5:25 am

Id pretty much implement NZ laws, seems to be the best balance of common sense and community safety and place a strong focus on Hunter safety with required shoots/competitions under supervision at approved clubs.
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Re: What gun laws would you change?

Post by bigfellascott » 04 Nov 2016, 5:30 am

scotty87 wrote:Id pretty much implement NZ laws, seems to be the best balance of common sense and community safety and place a strong focus on Hunter safety with required shoots/competitions under supervision at approved clubs.


Why should we have to join a club to go hunting? :unknown:
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