Reloading, Pros and Cons

[brett1868]

Hehe... Zen in the Art of Shooting!

http://raymancini.com.au/zen-and-the-art-of-shooting/

I once read "Zen and the art of motorcycle maintenance". Ian Gowanloch had it in his shed while I was stay there so I read it, one of the strangest books I've read from what I remember of it.

[Gwion]

Brett. Yeah I bought that book for my old man. He didn't really appreciate it!

I have read Zen and the Art of Archery a number of times..... It nothing like Motorcycle Maintenance and was written quite some time before hand.

[juststarting]

There are no cons to reloading.

this.

[Oldbloke]

Hehe... Zen in the Art of Shooting!

http://raymancini.com.au/zen-and-the-art-of-shooting/

I once read "Zen and the art of motorcycle maintenance". Ian Gowanloch had it in his shed while I was stay there so I read it, one of the strangest books I've read from what I remember of it.

+1.

[Supaduke]

I can see a problem developing with who is going to be the test pilot on the first load, may have to allow a beer or two on that one.

I distinctly remember firing my first reload with gritted teeth and a degree of trepidation. Then it just discharges like any other round and away you go.

[bigfellascott]

I'm not sure if anyone else has mentioned it's always best to start at the minimum recommended load in any load data you are using - then just go up in say .3gn increments keeping any eye out for signs of pressure etc (the book will tell you what to look for) don't exceed the max recommended load to be on the safe side (plenty do but best to just keep it safe for now until you are more experienced and understand the whole process better).

[Gamerancher]

Which is the reason I suggested consulting reloading tables other than Harvey's. Some of his "starting" loads exceed other manuals "maximum" loads.

[bladeracer]

I'm not sure if anyone else has mentioned it's always best to start at the minimum recommended load in any load data you are using - then just go up in say .3gn increments keeping any eye out for signs of pressure etc (the book will tell you what to look for) don't exceed the max recommended load to be on the safe side (plenty do but best to just keep it safe for now until you are more experienced and understand the whole process better).

It was a very long time ago, but I think recognising and monitoring pressure signs was the single biggest hurdle for me when I was learning. Being pre-internet you couldn't jump online and see millions of photos of cases showing high pressures, or even normal pressures. I used a 40X loupe to examine the primers, comparing them with increasing loads looking for the most minute differences. Because the "differences" really are minute while you're working well short of hot loads. Until you finally start pushing the pressure limits, then the differences become glaringly obvious in comparison. After that point it got much easier, although I still use a loupe

[Noisydad]

Has anybody actually tested the FL vs neck sizing idea? Curious if anybody has actually tried both and measured the results in their rifle?

For my .40-65 Sharps I don't size at all unless shells won't chamber. My cast lead bullets are loose seated over compressed BP, a couple of wads and a grease cookie.

[bigfellascott]

Yeah I don't spend much time looking for pressure signs these days as I have all my loads sorted in the diff cals I shoot only really have to worry about it in the load development stage for the most part - every now and then I have a look at the primers when reloading them.

[Adlippy]

The minimum and max load data that's in these books, do they vary from book to book( take it they do regarding Harvey's book), manufacturer to manufacturer etc, how would someone like me who has no idea actually no? Do you need to buy a few books and compare?

[bigfellascott]

The minimum and max load data that's in these books, do they vary from book to book( take it they do regarding Harvey's book), manufacturer to manufacturer etc, how would someone like me who has no idea actually no? Do you need to buy a few books and compare?

Nope if you are using ADI powder just use their reloading data http://www.adi-powders.com.au/handloade ... ifle%2Easp

A lot of the other manuals available will have powders that aren't as readily available here but a lot of those are available here but under the ADI name (basically ADI export it and then it's relabeled but then you have to cross reference the diff names to work out what powder it is here, hence it's easier to use Nicks Manual and the ADI website if you need to check things.

Reloading isn't hard, once you've done it a couple of times and your confidence grows you'll be right, all you have to do is make sure you are using the correct powder and the correct load data for it and the projectile weight and you'll be fine I'm sure.

Any dramas just come back to the forum and ask the question, someone here should be able to help you.

[bigfellascott]

Also before you go loading up the cases get one of the empty cases and full length size it and see if it chambers (you want to know if your dies are set up correctly) and this is the best way to find out, no need to put powder or projectile etc in it, just the FL resized case into the chamber and close the bolt and see if it actually does, if not you need to adjust your die until it does. The dies usually have a locking ring on them so once you are happy with it lock it in place, that way you won't have to worry about it again.

Nothing worse than reloading a heap of cases the first time out and they won't chamber. I also like to make sure a loaded case will work too, you need to make sure the projectile is seated deep enough or it too will cause troubles when trying to chamber a round (you obviously have to be careful doing this as the case is live so keep the fingers away from the trigger and if you have a rifle that has a 3 stage safety use that too.

Anyway lots of reading and learning ahead for you but once you've done it a few times it will become a lot easier and clearer to do and make a lot more sense, then when you are ready and if interested you can get right into the fine tuning of cases etc for better results if you want too.

Good luck

[bladeracer]

The minimum and max load data that's in these books, do they vary from book to book( take it they do regarding Harvey's book), manufacturer to manufacturer etc, how would someone like me who has no idea actually no? Do you need to buy a few books and compare?

Yes, they vary. Just as maximum loads vary in different rifles. Pressures vary due to minor changes in lots of things. Consistency is the rule for good ammo, do everything exactly the same for each round and they should shoot well. Case length and bullet seating depth are probably the most critical. If you don't trim the brass and it stretches until the case mouth enters the throat, it won't have room to open up to release the bullet and pressure will spike. Similarly, if you work up a hot load with the bullet seated 40-thou from the rifling, then load some long ones that jam the bullet into the rifling you'll also get higher pressures. If you load some short ones you might also see higher pressures due to the reduced case capacity.

Note that ADI also list pressures use two different measuring systems, CUP and PSI which are very different. PSI measurements are about 15% higher than the same pressure measured in CUP.

[bladeracer]

Also before you go loading up the cases get one of the empty cases and full length size it and see if it chambers...

Why wouldn't you try the brass before you full-length size it?
Even fired brass from another rifle has a pretty good chance of working fine in yours, so it's worth trying it first.

[bigfellascott]

Also before you go loading up the cases get one of the empty cases and full length size it and see if it chambers...

Why wouldn't you try the brass before you full-length size it?
Even fired brass from another rifle has a pretty good chance of working fine in yours, so it's worth trying it first.

Nope, I rather FLS the brass from other firearms (too many diff tolerances in chambers) - that way I know they will work, would be nothing worse than loading a heap up only to find some won't chamber, easier to just FLS em back to factory specs and know they will work once you try a couple to see if the dies are set up correctly.

ie - I couldn't use the brass from my Sako 222 in my Howa 222, the tolerances were diff (tried it out of curiosity one day) for me if I have the same cal in diff rifles I just keep the brass separate that way I only have to neck size them before reloading which of course is easier on the brass.

[bladeracer]

Nope, I rather FLS the brass from other firearms (too many diff tolerances in chambers) - that way I know they will work, would be nothing worse than loading a heap up only to find some won't chamber, easier to just FLS em back to factory specs and know they will work once you try a couple to see if the dies are set up correctly.

ie - I couldn't use the brass from my Sako 222 in my Howa 222, the tolerances were diff (tried it out of curiosity one day) for me if I have the same cal in diff rifles I just keep the brass separate that way I only have to neck size them before reloading which of course is easier on the brass.

I meant try it to see if it chambers in the rifle first rather than simply assuming it won't
If it chambers okay then you know it'll be fine after you load it up, although it's still good practise to check that the first few feed through your rifle before loading the whole batch..

[Gamerancher]

Same also with new brass. The manufacturing process has allowable variation tolerances and subsequent handling can leave brass deformed. Also, unless you are paying top dollar for "competition" quality brass they will vary, sometimes by a fair bit. Best practice is to size, trim to length and deburr flash holes from the get go. You then have brass that is going to be a lot more uniform from the start. Of course there is a lot more things you can do to "accurise" you brass but we are talking starting off here.

[bigfellascott]

Nope, I rather FLS the brass from other firearms (too many diff tolerances in chambers) - that way I know they will work, would be nothing worse than loading a heap up only to find some won't chamber, easier to just FLS em back to factory specs and know they will work once you try a couple to see if the dies are set up correctly.

ie - I couldn't use the brass from my Sako 222 in my Howa 222, the tolerances were diff (tried it out of curiosity one day) for me if I have the same cal in diff rifles I just keep the brass separate that way I only have to neck size them before reloading which of course is easier on the brass.

I meant try it to see if it chambers in the rifle first rather than simply assuming it won't
If it chambers okay then you know it'll be fine after you load it up, although it's still good practise to check that the first few feed through your rifle before loading the whole batch..

New brass will be fine, but fired brass from another firearm will more often than not be any good, it doesn't take much of a diff in chamber specs to make em hard to chamber, much better to just take them back to standard specs to be sure they will chamber reliably rather than find out some will some won't whilst out hunting (pain in the arse and have been there and done that in the early days of reloading, hence why I just FLS any used brass I get now, but each to their own, I just find the risk not worth it.

[bigfellascott]

Same also with new brass. The manufacturing process has allowable variation tolerances and subsequent handling can leave brass deformed. Also, unless you are paying top dollar for "competition" quality brass they will vary, sometimes by a fair bit. Best practice is to size, trim to length and deburr flash holes from the get go. You then have brass that is going to be a lot more uniform from the start. Of course there is a lot more things you can do to "accurise" you brass but we are talking starting off here.

Yep that's pretty much what I do too, that way you know everything is within spec so to speak, have had some brass with deformed necks etc over the years and some that wouldn't chamber reliably (new brass). Easy enough to just do as we do to ensure everything works and you have no issues out in the field.

[happyhunter]

.

[Gamerancher]

New R+P unprimed 204 case. Usually get a few like this from a bag of 100. Assumed running new cases through the die was standard practise?

It is for me and I dare say for all experienced reloaders. But, we are supposed to be answering the O.P's original question and pointing him in the right direction.
I have seen inexperienced fella's buy new brass and just start loading with the mindset that it is new therefore it will be right.

[superdave]

New R+P unprimed 204 case. Usually get a few like this from a bag of 100. Assumed running new cases through the die was standard practise?

It is for me and I dare say for all experienced reloaders. But, we are supposed to be answering the O.P's original question and pointing him in the right direction.
I have seen inexperienced fella's buy new brass and just start loading with the mindset that it is new therefore it will be right.

And that would've been me a few years ago. I've learned to check, ask questions and assume less than I did.

I knew a guy who used a lee 12 ga loader for his shottie ammo. In conversation one day he said to me:

"I never took much notice of how much powder I was using per charge until one day I pulled the trigger on my shotgun and the kick rattled the teeth on the other side of my face"

[happyhunter]

.

[Gamerancher]

That's fine but I have had new 7-08 cases that were already over max length (Remingtons). Apart from the one that stopped at the base of the neck, that is, had no neck.
Quality control? What's that?

[bigfellascott]

New R+P unprimed 204 case. Usually get a few like this from a bag of 100. Assumed running new cases through the die was standard practise?

It is for me and I dare say for all experienced reloaders. But, we are supposed to be answering the O.P's original question and pointing him in the right direction.
I have seen inexperienced fella's buy new brass and just start loading with the mindset that it is new therefore it will be right.

+1

[juststarting]

On the side of pro.
Came home from work and chucked 100 cases into rotary tumbler.
Hour and a half later shiny goodness got rinsed and popped into dehydrator, along with the media...
Went out again.
Came home 2 hours later, turned everything off to cool.
About to charge them and bam! Range day prep complete. Kinda like cooking dinner and doing dishes only in reverse and with ammo

[Oldbloke]

Only con is start up cost. The rest is pros.
Making beer is even better cause the start up cost is s**t loads less.

[Adlippy]

Ok you have talked me into it , thanks, I think doing a very rough calculation on cost I think I could get the ball rolling for about three quarters of the cost of a tikka give or take, but the more I read the more it feels like the sensible thing to do, especially with my future purchasing of rifles plan for the next 12 months, who knew this would become so addictive
Thanks again

[sandgroperbill]

OB, starting to think you and I are what some might refer to as hillbillies.
Brewing our own beer, rolling our own ammo, making our own jerky and biltong. I even have the tobacco pipe.

Now... Just to find me a nice rocking chair...