sound moderating

[duncan61]

.Correct me if I am wrong but a silencer on a high power rifle.Meaning it can push a projectile above 2500 fps will only moderate the sound its still going to be loud.the projectile has to be under the speed of sound to be fully silent.I have read a few posts about confusion over what is high and low power and I believe here in West Australia the cut of line was 2500 fps.The 22 Hornet was O.K. to have on a low power license but a high power license was needed for the 218 Bee and above.I think it is now A and B which is a much better system cos to get a high power license here years ago you needed a lot of land and a damn good reason.When the buyback happened on semis they allowed shooters to buy 30/30 on a low power and heaps of people I knew went and got lever action 30/30 all the pistol chambered levers were considered low power and available to farmers and hunters.With what I am reading on this forum I am starting to join the ranks of the disgruntled firearm owners.I have just looked at the homemade muzzle brake fitted by Medic and fail to see that if a good machinist /engineer can make and fit a device that reduces blast and noise out of a rifle shooting at 3000-4000 fps whats the problem you are still going to hear it just make it nicer.I mean we are already shooting at that speed why does it have to be so loud.I am not sure if this topic has been done to death already?

[Title_II]

I'm not sure I understand the question. Supersonic rounds through a silencer usually sound something like a .22. Sometimes quieter. Depends on the round, depends on the silencer. Subsonic rounds can get VERY quiet, despite all the BS on the net that they "are not movie quiet." Yes, they can be.

[duncan61]

After seeing the good job that medic did on his muzzle break it altered my mindset on sound moderating.I run a .222 for head shooting roos on a very mild load so recoil and noise is not an issue but my mates run .243W and it lights up the paddock and makes a big bang.My 7mm rem mag even with 26 barrel makes a lot of noise.For the first time I fail to see why we apparently cant reduce the noise and possible flash.I believe in America silencers are legal on rifles

[bladeracer]

.Correct me if I am wrong but a silencer on a high power rifle.Meaning it can push a projectile above 2500 fps will only moderate the sound its still going to be loud.the projectile has to be under the speed of sound to be fully silent.I have read a few posts about confusion over what is high and low power and I believe here in West Australia the cut of line was 2500 fps.The 22 Hornet was O.K. to have on a low power license but a high power license was needed for the 218 Bee and above.I think it is now A and B which is a much better system cos to get a high power license here years ago you needed a lot of land and a damn good reason.When the buyback happened on semis they allowed shooters to buy 30/30 on a low power and heaps of people I knew went and got lever action 30/30 all the pistol chambered levers were considered low power and available to farmers and hunters.With what I am reading on this forum I am starting to join the ranks of the disgruntled firearm owners.I have just looked at the homemade muzzle brake fitted by Medic and fail to see that if a good machinist /engineer can make and fit a device that reduces blast and noise out of a rifle shooting at 3000-4000 fps whats the problem you are still going to hear it just make it nicer.I mean we are already shooting at that speed why does it have to be so loud.I am not sure if this topic has been done to death already?

I think I understand what you're saying.
I agree with you. The restriction on suppressors is ludicrous and has zero evidence to support it. I'm only aware of a single instance of a suppressor being used to assassinate an Aussie relatively silently.
I load subsonic ammo for every caliber I've ever owned, primarily due to the sound signature. Full-power is fine when using the rifle for its primary purpose, but for general practice shooting I much prefer the reduced noise, recoil, barrel and brass wear, and cost.

Frankly, if you want to greatly reduce the noise of your shooting purely for illegal motives, just load up some subsonic ammunition with heavy soft lead bullets. Your rifle is no more bulky or difficult to conceal, you don't risk being caught carrying an illegal suppressor, and you don't need any modification to the rifle. And if your motives require absolute silence, there are far more silent weapons than a suppressed firearm that are easier to conceal and probably aren't even regulated. I would go so far as to guess that most Aussies are murdered with weapons that are quieter than even suppressed firearms, knives, clubs, ligatures, asphyxiation and fists for example.

I think in Oz most of our firearm crimes (actual firearms, not the toys or replicas that are usually used) are fairly public, like gang warfare and robberies, where the noise of a shot adds a lot of shock and stun value and I doubt the perpetrators would want to reduce that.

[bladeracer]

After seeing the good job that medic did on his muzzle break it altered my mindset on sound moderating.I run a .222 for head shooting roos on a very mild load so recoil and noise is not an issue but my mates run .243W and it lights up the paddock and makes a big bang.My 7mm rem mag even with 26 barrel makes a lot of noise.For the first time I fail to see why we apparently cant reduce the noise and possible flash.I believe in America silencers are legal on rifles

In the US suppressors are legal in many states but are regulated, requiring a "tax" being paid for a "permit". I don't think any US states allows unregulated suppressors like NZ or the UK. I don't know the legal requirements of parts of Europe that allow or require suppressors.

[deye243]

a 7mm mag with a moderator sounds about the same as a 22mag 243 like a 22lr provided they are efficient mods

and yes I can't believe that Australia is the last western country that demonizes moderators but then again Australia

stopped being Australia a loooooooong time ago .

[bladeracer]

Our laws specifically disallow attaching anything to a firearm with the design or intention of reducing its sound signature. What we desperately need is either an Aussie-made integrally-suppressed firearm or somebody to push for importing something. They'd probably be up against "circumventing the intent of the law", but I haven't seen anything stating that the intent of our suppressor restriction is simply to prevent people from shooting without making a racket.

[Title_II]

After seeing the good job that medic did on his muzzle break it altered my mindset on sound moderating.I run a .222 for head shooting roos on a very mild load so recoil and noise is not an issue but my mates run .243W and it lights up the paddock and makes a big bang.My 7mm rem mag even with 26 barrel makes a lot of noise.For the first time I fail to see why we apparently cant reduce the noise and possible flash.I believe in America silencers are legal on rifles

In the US suppressors are legal in many states but are regulated, requiring a "tax" being paid for a "permit". I don't think any US states allows unregulated suppressors like NZ or the UK. I don't know the legal requirements of parts of Europe that allow or require suppressors.

Legal in most states, and there is a tax, there is no "permit." But you could look at it that way since you get one copy of your application back with the tax stamp on it.

Not just rifles. Silencers can go on pistols, machineguns, anything. Keep in mind, in most states here everything is legal, and you can do whatever you want with it. You can even make your own guns, let alone completely change the configuration of a gun.

Silencers are regulated federally so there are no states in which they are unregulated, although most states have no laws about them. Yes, you can hunt with them in the majority of states. Yes, you can carry a silenced sidearm, subgun, or rifle. No, they are not used in crime. I have met with many, many non-dickhead cops at training classes and none have ever even heard of one being used in a crime. It's a subject that tends to come up. I'm sure it must have happened somewhere, but it certainly doesn't rise to the level of hands and feet.

I have a silenced full auto MAX-11 and the thing is sick. VERY quiet. It's a hoot to blow down a row of cans and bottles of water without hardly making any noise. Viper-9





I also have a silencer for my M16. Gemtech HALO. It's full auto rated but not the greatest IMO. I only use the silencer with a .22 upper, using it with rifle rounds is not worth it to me. It is silent with .22s, really cool. The loudest sound (other than bullet impact) is actually the M16 hammer cocking in full auto, not the bolt chattering. But the .22s lead the darn thing up :\ I need to get a dedicated .22 can.

[bladeracer]

Legal in most states, and there is a tax, there is no "permit." But you could look at it that way since you get one copy of your application back with the tax stamp on it.

Not just rifles. Pistols, machineguns, anything.

They are regulated federally so there are no states in which they are unregulated, although most states have no laws about them. Yes, you can hunt with them in the majority of states. Yes, you can carry a silenced sidearm, subgun, or rifle. No, they are not used in crime. I have met with many, many non-dickhead cops at training classes and none have ever even heard of one being used in a crime. It's a subject that tends to come up. I'm sure it must have happened somewhere, but it certainly doesn't rise to the level of hands and feet.

I have a silenced full auto MAX-11 and the thing is sick. VERY quiet. It's a hoot to blow down a row of cans and bottles of water without hardly making any noise. Viper-9

I also have a silencer for my M16. Gemtech HALO. It's full auto rated but not the greatest IMO. I only use the silencer with a .22 upper, using it with rifle rounds is not worth it to me. It is silent with .22s, really cool. The loudest sound (other than bullet impact) is actually the M16 hammer cocking in full auto, not the bolt chattering. But the .22s lead the darn thing up :\ I need to get a dedicated .22 can.

That's why I put permit in quotes. It's not strictly a permit but if you don't have the tax stamp you aren't "permitted" to own a suppressor?
I think suppressors are illegal in about ten of the states?

[Title_II]

The tax is a registration fee, but you say tomato and I say tomatto.

You can certainly check but I think 10 states is close.

[Title_II]

I forgot to add, but there is a reasonable chance that silencers will come out of the National Firearms Act (of 1934) in the USA this year and become unregulated.

[duncan61]

My howa in 243 has a pitted barrel and I am going to fit a new one any way.Me thinks its time for some testing and I will get some trail boss and make subsonic ammo and see the difference then go to the relevant authorities and go how do like that.I wish to have it in writing that it is illegal.I will call wapol first and get the low down.Thanks for the feedback

[bladeracer]

My howa in 243 has a pitted barrel and I am going to fit a new one any way.Me thinks its time for some testing and I will get some trail boss and make subsonic ammo and see the difference then go to the relevant authorities and go how do like that.I wish to have it in writing that it is illegal.I will call wapol first and get the low down.Thanks for the feedback

I have never heard of any law preventing us from shooting subsonic ammunition.
I'm working on reduced and subsonic .243 loads currently.
I particularly want to see if I can come close to duplicating a .223 55gn load.

[Ed9362]

I used 16gns of tb and 58gn zmax in my 243, for memory I got around 2300fps and good accuracy

[Oldbloke]

"I have never heard of any law preventing us from shooting subsonic ammunition.
I'm working on reduced and subsonic .243 loads currently.
I particularly want to see if I can come close to duplicating a .223 55gn load.”

Suggest you investigate a few shotgun powders.

[duncan61]

My point is now we can make the same calibre quieter with subsonic ammo why is it so out of order to use the same calibre quieter by modifying the rifle,We hunt feral and pest control animals and enjoy the experience along the way.Do we have to make a big bang.This is not over I will push until I have a reason not just cos some one said so

[bladeracer]

My point is now we can make the same calibre quieter with subsonic ammo why is it so out of order to use the same calibre quieter by modifying the rifle,We hunt feral and pest control animals and enjoy the experience along the way.Do we have to make a big bang.This is not over I will push until I have a reason not just cos some one said so

I've thought the same way ever since I started shooting.
In '83 I bought a suppressor over the counter in Adelaide, I think for $20. They had a carton of them right next to the cash register.
Back then though I didn't have the skill or the equipment to thread a barrel so I never ever used it
Plus, I was already shooting subsonic loads in my .222 and really didn't have any need of a suppressor anyway.

You can always try putting in an application, all they can do is say no...and put you on the terrorist watch list.
Maybe we need an organised protest of a million suppressor applications going in all at once right across Oz.

My girlfriend is a dedicated conservationist and was instrumental in several volunteer groups in Perth for many years. They had shooters in several times to eradicate foxes in wetlands in built-up areas, using suppressed .22's at night. I know one of them though preferred to trap them live, then take them somewhere else to shoot them.

[Title_II]

I don't know enough to tell you what strategy to take. But having been here a few years, it appears the one you are taking is to lose as slowly as you can.

[RoginaJack]

Note. Sound moderators are permitted in N.Z.

AND permits are also held by the National Parks. If the N.P. use these under W.P.H.& S. issues, why can't sporting shooters?

[duncan61]

We have the ability to make one eg machine shop.I may build and fit one test it then request a permit to make and fit sound moderators

[bladeracer]

Note. Sound moderators are permitted in N.Z.

AND permits are also held by the National Parks. If the N.P. use these under W.P.H.& S. issues, why can't sporting shooters?

Are they used for employee health reasons though?
The Police use health and safety as their excuse for us not being allowed firearms.

[duncan61]

I see its on the list of things the W.A. SFFP are campaigning for

[bladeracer]

We have the ability to make one eg machine shop.I may build and fit one test it then request a permit to make and fit sound moderators

There is a mob in SA I think that manufacture suppressors already. I can't see much of a market under our current regime though.
I would definitely _not_ build a suppressor before getting a permit to do so, and I would think you would require a dealer licence to do so anyway.
Possession of a suppressor is illegal, whether you buy it or make it.

[Title_II]

Don't try to sell them to us, we are all stocked up and they move slow. The more the merrier, but I don't want you to enter such a competitive market. Consider NZ, Europe, etc.

[duncan61]

hi bladeracer could you point me in the right direction where this law is

[bladeracer]

hi bladeracer could you point me in the right direction where this law is

http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/wa/consol_act/fa1973102/s23.html

Three years for possession, seven years for actually using a suppressor.

17B lists exceptions for suppressor use:
http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/wa/consol_act/fa1973102/s17b.html

[bladeracer]

I don't know if we have "constructive possession" laws here though, where possession of parts that would allow construction of a suppressor would be considered the same as possessing a complete suppressor.

[BluEsky]

I am a great believer of the old saying " Keep it Simple " so do yoáll think this may be Legal and have some Merit! And timely, what with the new Government initiative to get rid of Two Million Cats at all cost!

..

[duncan61]

My interpretation of that is it is banned for no logical reason.Perhaps if demonstrated that a device lowers the sound but does not remove the noise completely it could be acceptable.Perhaps when that was drafted it applied to silencing weapons completely for criminal purposes.To many james bond movies

[bladeracer]

My interpretation of that is it is banned for no logical reason.Perhaps if demonstrated that a device lowers the sound but does not remove the noise completely it could be acceptable.Perhaps when that was drafted it applied to silencing weapons completely for criminal purposes.To many james bond movies

Sure, but how would you go about demonstrating it when doing so is illegal?
There is no logic whatever behind the suppressor restriction, just as there is no logic behind firearms being more dangerous because they look like military firearms - if that were true the Police wouldn't be asking for AR15's, they could use much cheaper 10/22's in "tactical" chassis instead.