2017 NFA is here - please read

[bigM]

I am not a legal expert. W J Wilcher is.

Previously a number of events were covered under "World Championships". This has been removed.
Accredited events need to be included in the NFA and they are not.

[Gwion]

I'd hazard a guess that a specialist firearms barrister has more idea about how to interperate firearms legislation than anyone on this forum.

What 1886 is trying to pass off as an insignificant typo my well be that or it may be an "oh, no one will pick that up" typo that leaves a back door open to further restriction. Addressing the omission (purposeful or accidental) with sufficient weight is the only way to get it addressed.

The, "oh, it's just a typo, someone will pick it up and correct it eventually" attitude is a silly way to look at things. I certainly wouldn't want someone with that attitude representing my legal interests.

[shouta]

1886 the omission of World Championships is not minor. If anything it should include World Championships and other accredited events. By leaving it just as accredited events and not naming the events allows for them to be unaccredited quite easily.

[Wylie27]

Paul Briton posted that is was a typo and the document will be amended..

https://www.facebook.com/pbaimportsau/p ... 5641403790

[BluEsky]

A Typo you say! I Don't believe that for a moment, What sort of Hicks are we being run by? to have to rewrite the BS so called agreement again, is this not an Insult to a million LFO's?

.............

[brett1868]

@1886
I read it the same way as you mate and essentially nothing has really changed so long as the usual club (pistol) events remain "accredited". SASA / Metallic Silhouette have been the only "Good reason" to acquire both the High Caliber Permit and get PTA's approved. IPSC (NSW) is not approved for >38 but I'd like to see that changed to include the bigger calibers. The only point to clear up is the list of "accredited" events which is probably done under consultation with Pistol Australia & IPSC. I think Paul from PBA may have gone off half cocked...as for the Barrister I haven't read his rant so can't comment.

Am I qualified to respond....Probably not but I do hold PA Accreditation, IPSC Accreditation, Cat H, High Cal Commissioners permit and for a living I write detailed design documents for large scale IT infrastructure projects so I have a trained eye for detail

7. Jurisdictions will restrict the importation, possession and use of handguns for sporting purposes to individuals meeting recognised sporting shooter classifications in the Olympic and Commonwealth Games and for other accredited events that meet the conditions in paragraph 14(b)(i)."

14. Sports shooters – handguns
(a) Sports shooters must have a valid membership with an approved club.

(b) Firearms permitted for acquisition, possession or use under this genuine reason are:
i. Category H – the firearm must be designed or adapted for competition target shooting, or must have a barrel length of at least 120mm for a semi-automatic handgun or 100mm for a revolver or a single shot handgun. If the firearm is fitted with a firearm magazine or cylinder, it must have a capacity of not more than 10 rounds. The calibre of the firearm must not exceed .38” (with the exception of cases listed under paragraph 14(c)).

(c) Handguns with a calibre greater than .38” but no greater than .45” are permitted only where shooters are competing in the two accredited events known as Metallic Silhouette and Single (Western) Action.

7. Essentially says you cant import a pistol unless it complies with section 14 i ....cool
14. Says I can have a pistol if I'm a member of an approved club shooting in an accredited event and it's <38 UNLESS I hold a high Cal permit in which case I can have up to .45 for SASA or MS only.

Simples....Current state = proposed state but I'd still like to see a list of accredited events.

[bullet]

brett1868 you're spot on ... seems the version SSAA distributed was an earlier version as the current version on https://www.ag.gov.au/CrimeAndCorruptio ... eement.pdf
Now clearly states paragraph 14(b)(i).

Crisis averted! *phew*

[brett1868]

brett1868 you're spot on ... seems the version SSAA distributed was an earlier version as the current version on https://www.ag.gov.au/CrimeAndCorruptio ... eement.pdf
Now clearly states paragraph 14(b)(i).

Crisis averted! *phew*

Credit where credit is due, 1886 nailed it perfectly, I just added a couple cents. I did post on Farcebook in reply to Paul's (PBA) comments but no replies. Seems this forum has a more intelligent readership.

[BluEsky]

brett1868 you're spot on ... seems the version SSAA distributed was an earlier version as the current version on https://www.ag.gov.au/CrimeAndCorruptio ... eement.pdf
Now clearly states paragraph 14(b)(i).

Crisis averted! *phew*

Credit where credit is due, 1886 nailed it perfectly, I just added a couple cents. I did post on Farcebook in reply to Paul's (PBA) comments but no replies. Seems this forum has a more intelligent readership.

When did the SSAA release any " Version " of the NFA? it is a Government document and only comes from the Gov. official site! I think you will find that the Government '"Error" was quickly rectified Yesterday 22/2/17 after it was pointed out to them by all the Shooting Bodies!! And the Crisis is Far from averted!

[Wylie27]

The error was in the latest version and after being contacted by several sources it was recitifed.

Bluesky if you think governments don't make errors in documents then you are living in lalaland.... having spent many years work for or with govt entities both state and federal I can tell you that there policy documents can be more confusing and contradicting than the bible.

Working for a large outsourcer and supporting a large federal govt department, the Feds forgot to include backups and restores in their tender... for 7 years every backup and restore completed by my team was a project and charged at project rates...

[BluEsky]

The error was in the latest version and after being contacted by several sources it was recitifed.

Bluesky if you think governments don't make errors in documents then you are living in lalaland.... having spent many years work for or with govt entities both state and federal I can tell you that there policy documents can be more confusing and contradicting than the bible.

Working for a large outsourcer and supporting a large federal govt department, the Feds forgot to include backups and restores in their tender... for 7 years every backup and restore completed by my team was a project and charged at project rates...

I have No illusion that the Government does not make errors, it is shown up every Day and they are never taken to account for it, and / or it gets glossed over, to accept a lesser standard in this instance, when LFO's are Crucified for the smallest infraction of The Regulations is Not an option! Why would any LFO' defend the Liberal Gov?.

[bullet]

brett1868 you're spot on ... seems the version SSAA distributed was an earlier version as the current version on https://www.ag.gov.au/CrimeAndCorruptio ... eement.pdf
Now clearly states paragraph 14(b)(i).

Crisis averted! *phew*

Credit where credit is due, 1886 nailed it perfectly, I just added a couple cents. I did post on Farcebook in reply to Paul's (PBA) comments but no replies. Seems this forum has a more intelligent readership.

When did the SSAA release any " Version " of the NFA? it is a Government document and only comes from the Gov. official site! I think you will find that the Government '"Error" was quickly rectified Yesterday 22/2/17 after it was pointed out to them by all the Shooting Bodies!! And the Crisis is Far from averted!

SSAA Vic sent an email to all members with a link to the NFA, but it was a PDF hosted on their severs and turns out it was the one with the error.

Ahh and yes I do agree, still a crisis, just not as bad as it could have been...! I'm biased being a competitive pistol shooter who competes in many non Olympic / Commonwealth events.

[brett1868]

Ahh and yes I do agree, still a crisis, just not as bad as it could have been...! I'm biased being a competitive pistol shooter who competes in many non Olympic / Commonwealth events.

I'm also a pistol shooter, wether or not competitive is debatable cause some days I can't hit jack.

[Wylie27]

Some days?

[BluEsky]

Ahh and yes I do agree, still a crisis, just not as bad as it could have been...! I'm biased being a competitive pistol shooter who competes in many non Olympic / Commonwealth events.

I'm also a pistol shooter, wether or not competitive is debatable cause some days I can't hit jack.

. Well if you have enough Cash I may be able to give you some Coaching and it is probably just as well that you have not Hit Jack!

Can't beat a happy Shooter. .
.

[brett1868]

Some days?

Got you last comp, balanced out the whipping you gave me the comp before
ItsMe is improving each outing and once he gets his own pistol he'll be a real threat to those chickens....

[BluEsky]

Well I am still not convinced ! for I just looked at the SSAA National Web site and their slant on the matter is just the opposite of what you guys have been spouting!

Will try to put a link up ......https://ssaa.org.au/news-resources/poli ... nfa-review

[Wylie27]

Some days?

Got you last comp, balanced out the whipping you gave me the comp before
ItsMe is improving each outing and once he gets his own pistol he'll be a real threat to those chickens....

You bought a $3000 Ruger to beat me lol

[brett1868]

:? Well I am still not convinced ! for I just looked at the SSAA National Web site and their slant on the matter is just the opposite of what you guys have been spouting!

Will try to put a link up ......https://ssaa.org.au/news-resources/poli ... nfa-review

I think we're outta sync with the versions of the NFA. SSAA highlighted the problem and the edit has been made, it's this new version that myself and 1886 are basing our views on rather then the older now redundant version. The previous version was definitely a disaster for pistol shooters.

[BluEsky]

Queenslander!! Where have they all gone? they were once very vocal on the Forums What will they do now, for I am led to understand that the Historic use of Handguns by Farmers has been thrown out by COAG on the recommendation of WLB, and the basis and info is being questioned? There is a good article on it the Firearms Owners United site!

Well do you think they can use them without ammo, say like a Club? oh no that would be illegal !

..

[Title_II]

Some days?

Got you last comp, balanced out the whipping you gave me the comp before
ItsMe is improving each outing and once he gets his own pistol he'll be a real threat to those chickens....

You bought a $3000 Ruger to beat me lol

Ruger doesn't make anything worth $3,000 LOL

Are you mates racing?

[brett1868]

Ruger doesn't make anything worth $3,000 LOL

Are you mates racing?

Wylie27 and I are mates and shoot together, he's just stirring me the bugger. It's not a Ruger but a improved version of their design made in the U.S of Aye by Volquartsen. They call it the 1911 Style Scorpion but I call it the "Chicken Smasher"

[1886]

="brett1868………… it's this new version that myself and 1886 are basing our views on rather than the older now redundant version. The previous version was definitely a disaster for pistol shooters.

Mate, I was commenting on the version that indicated 14(c) under para 7, which was totally wrong and as mentioned being a possible simple typo. I now note it has been amended in the latest version to 14(b)(i). Ironic that my Barrister friend said it should be 14(c)

="shouta" 1886 the omission of World Championships is not minor. If anything it should include World Championships and other accredited events. By leaving it just as accredited events and not naming the events allows for them to be unaccredited quite easily.

Even though the words “ and other accredited events” would cover other matches I see where you are coming from.

As “World Championships” is incorporated under the longarms provisions, ie Para 13(a) then if this wording was a major issue relating to IPSC in Australia as bigM has also indicated then I am surprised that SSAA has not queried its omission but "and other accredited events" also needs to remain.

="brett1868......................but I'd still like to see a list of accredited events.

No guys the last thing you want. If specific matches are listed then they are the only ones that become gospel and no others can be considered etc and good luck getting States to amend Regs or their Act accordingly.

Accreditation is not by Police. Besides Olympics, Commonwealth Games and World Championships accredited matches, governing bodies such as your local SSAA could accredit other matches.

Given this I still have some concerns as Cat A, B and C long arms under Para 13(a) unlike Para 7 doesn’t have the words “and for other accredited matches” along with Cat C shotguns being restricted to Clay target shooters only, 13 (b)(iii). I have no idea whether SSAA are working on this but probably not

HOWEVER, notwithstanding the above it still has to be remembered that the NFA is NOT law only and agreement but one would assume it should be correct . All States and Territories are free to ignore what they wish and do, or go even further etc as we all know.

[BluEsky]

Ruger doesn't make anything worth $3,000 LOL

Are you mates racing?

Wylie27 and I are mates and shoot together, he's just stirring me the bugger. It's not a Ruger but a improved version of their design made in the U.S of Aye by Volquartsen. They call it the 1911 Style Scorpion but I call it the "Chicken Smasher"

How is the arthritis in the typing hand ? LOL

..

[BluEsky]

Why the BS with the Ammo in the NFA, the continued attempt to place unnecessary hurdles in front of LFO's and just plain add to the costs of Dealers, consequently making the Shooting Sports more expensive for all is just further harassment of LFO's! In NSW They do Not even use the BS records Dealers are required to keep for the BS Ammo Bill fiasco! Can anyone point out any instance in the last Three Years where this failed system has been used for a conviction in any instance , all the Dealers I have spoken too have rarely even had their logs viewed.

.

[duncan61]

Do you mean the possesion limits??

[BluEsky]

Do you mean the possesion limits??

Duncan refer to point # 54 on their BS wish list, but I think you mob in WA., have had to live with some of this type of BS for some time?

..

[duncan61]

It doesnt specify an amount.I think it is 5000 .22 LR or rimfire and 1000 centre fire you can purchase at a time.If you have more than 10,000 rds you have to put up an explosives sign to warn potential fire fighters that there is a large quantity of ammunition.Your local gun shop may carry over 10000 for .223 and 308 and other common chamberings but I doubt they would even have that quantity in say 270 or 7mm rem.This condition has always been there just now its written down.In reality how can any one know what you have if you reload you could have any amount anywhere.A shot gun club could probably say they are doing a big weekend club day and get what ever they want.I see pallets of target shotshells for sale at my LGS

[duncan61]

I just called my LGS and they said back up your ute and we will fill it up.If you want ammunition you are not licensed for you can get a collectors lic.When I had a dedicated loading shed on the farm I enjoyed having all the different bullets on the shelf from cat shot to 416 Rigby

[1886]

It doesnt specify an amount.I think it is 5000 .22 LR or rimfire and 1000 centre fire you can purchase at a time.If you have more than 10,000 rds you have to put up an explosives sign to warn potential fire fighters that there is a large quantity of ammunition.Your local gun shop may carry over 10000 for .223 and 308 and other common chamberings but I doubt they would even have that quantity in say 270 or 7mm rem.This condition has always been there just now its written down.In reality how can any one know what you have if you reload you could have any amount anywhere.A shot gun club could probably say they are doing a big weekend club day and get what ever they want.I see pallets of target shotshells for sale at my LGS

Duncan, that's all news to me as in my 51 years of gun ownership to my knowledge WA has never had any ammo restrictions.

Are you able to quote the relevant section of the Act or Regulations that support what you say.