.357/.44 Magnum powders

[bladeracer]

I'm looking at powders for the two magnums with ADI's data.

AR2205 makes a lot more velocity which is great for jacketed bullets, and is useful in other rifle cartridges like 300BLK and .450 Bushmaster. But it does use a lot more than the pistol powders - 20-30gn in the .44 and 14-21gn in the .357. Potential velocities are 1500-2100fps for 165gn to 300gn bullets in the .44 and 1350-2250fps for 110gn to 180gn bullets in the .357.

AP70N makes good velocities with cast bullets from small charges - 7-10gn in the .44 and 6-8gn in the .357 - and also works in shotshells behind slugs which could be useful.

I'm planning to use cast lead with Trailboss since I already have lots of it, but I will want to play with AR2205 and AP70N and jacketed bullets eventually.

Is the AP70N simply less dense than the rifle powders? Does 10gn of AP70N fill the .44Mag case to a similar level as 30gn AR2205? Trailboss is a third the density of AR2206H.

[Tripod]

Rifle or Handgun?

[Mitch]

Actually it has a greater bulk density. Same as trailboss has a very high bulk density

[bladeracer]

Rifle or Handgun?

Rifle, but ADI lists both powders for both rifle and handgun.

[yoshie]

22g of 2205 nearly fills up a 44 mag case to the bottom of the bullet, 10g of AP70n isn't as full. 2205 isn't the best choice in handgun length barrels, where it shines is rifle length barrels. I use 2205 in 44 mag hunting load and 22 hornet, Ap70n in 32, 38, 9mm, 357 and 44 mag target loads. I tried 2205 in a 9 3/4" Ruger Super Red Hawk and there was lots of unburnt powder, it needed a really heavy crimp but still didn't get rid of all the unburnt powder.

[bladeracer]

Actually it has a greater bulk density. Same as trailboss has a very high bulk density

So the AP70N is similar density to Trailboss then?
I'm talking specific density. Given the same volume of AR2206H and Trailboss, the TB weighs one-third as much as the usual rifle powders.

[bladeracer]

22g of 2205 nearly fills up a 44 mag case to the bottom of the bullet, 10g of AP70n isn't as full. 2205 isn't the best choice in handgun length barrels, where it shines is rifle length barrels. I use 2205 in 44 mag hunting load and 22 hornet, Ap70n in 32, 38, 9mm, 357 and 44 mag target loads. I tried 2205 in a 9 3/4" Ruger Super Red Hawk and there was lots of unburnt powder, it needed a really heavy crimp but still didn't get rid of all the unburnt powder.

Thanks Yoshie, that's what I needed to know
Have you tried Trailboss in the .44 at all?

[Mitch]

Actually it has a greater bulk density. Same as trailboss has a very high bulk density

So the AP70N is similar density to Trailboss then?
I'm talking specific density. Given the same volume of AR2206H and Trailboss, the TB weighs one-third as much as the usual rifle powders.

Nah definitely not same density, I worded it poorly.

Example (random numbers, not real)
To fill a 44 with trailboss would take say 7 grains
To fill a 44 with ap70 would take say 12 grains
To fill a 44 with 2205 would take say 25 grains

So the bulk size is greater in general with the faster burning powder. I get what you are saying regarding density etc.

For your info i run 23.2gn of 2205 with a 240gn XTP in an 1894 for full power
I run 9.6gn of ap70 with a 240gn RNFP cast for punching paper

[bladeracer]

Actually it has a greater bulk density. Same as trailboss has a very high bulk density

So the AP70N is similar density to Trailboss then?
I'm talking specific density. Given the same volume of AR2206H and Trailboss, the TB weighs one-third as much as the usual rifle powders.

Nah definitely not same density, I worded it poorly.

Example (random numbers, not real)
To fill a 44 with trailboss would take say 7 grains
To fill a 44 with ap70 would take say 12 grains
To fill a 44 with 2205 would take say 25 grains

So the bulk size is greater in general with the faster burning powder. I get what you are saying regarding density etc.

For your info i run 23.2gn of 2205 with a 240gn XTP in an 1894 for full power
I run 9.6gn of ap70 with a 240gn RNFP cast for punching paper

Cool. So the 9.6gn AP70N and the 23.2gn AR2205 do fill the case to roughly the same level.
As opposed to a 9.6gn charge of AR2205 which would be way down the case, and allow a double load very easily (although not a dangerous load)?

[bigpete]

I use trailboss in my 44. 7.3gn under a 225gn projectile. Good fun load
I use 2205 in my full power loads. Try a Lee 310gc at full power in a Rossi 92,its not shoulder breaking or anything,but you know you've fired it !

[bladeracer]

I use trailboss in my 44. 7.3gn under a 225gn projectile. Good fun load
I use 2205 in my full power loads. Try a Lee 310gc at full power in a Rossi 92,its not shoulder breaking or anything,but you know you've fired it !

Good info Pete. I've been reading that TB doesn't work so well in the .357 though. I want two levers in .357 and .44 magnums.
I'm leaning toward the Rossi Puma Trapper, but there seems to be no good way to mount a scope or a case catcher if I ever wanted to. I like the Henry's side-ejection and scope mount option, but for the price of one Henry I can buy two Rossi's. I'm going to spend a few days looking to see if there might be a Winchester 94 or Browning 92 around before I order anything new.

[yoshie]

22g of 2205 nearly fills up a 44 mag case to the bottom of the bullet, 10g of AP70n isn't as full. 2205 isn't the best choice in handgun length barrels, where it shines is rifle length barrels. I use 2205 in 44 mag hunting load and 22 hornet, Ap70n in 32, 38, 9mm, 357 and 44 mag target loads. I tried 2205 in a 9 3/4" Ruger Super Red Hawk and there was lots of unburnt powder, it needed a really heavy crimp but still didn't get rid of all the unburnt powder.

Thanks Yoshie, that's what I needed to know
Have you tried Trailboss in the .44 at all?

I can't remember honestly, i did use it in my 357 pistol for a while because my light loads that i use for ISSF centrefire were really light and i was worried about poor ignition, but accuracy wasn't good. I have a big tub of it sitting there, i planned on using it in my 444 marlin but haven't got around to it.

[bladeracer]

I can't remember honestly, i did use it in my 357 pistol for a while because my light loads that i use for ISSF centrefire were really light and i was worried about poor ignition, but accuracy wasn't good. I have a big tub of it sitting there, i planned on using it in my 444 marlin but haven't got around to it.

I use TB in everything I own except the shotgun and muzzleloader, but it still seems to last forever

[yoshie]

I can't remember honestly, i did use it in my 357 pistol for a while because my light loads that i use for ISSF centrefire were really light and i was worried about poor ignition, but accuracy wasn't good. I have a big tub of it sitting there, i planned on using it in my 444 marlin but haven't got around to it.

I use TB in everything I own except the shotgun and muzzleloader, but it still seems to last forever

Yeah it does, i gave some to a mate (half a 2206H bottle) so he could see if he liked it before he bought a tub, last i heard he was still going on it.