Overnight stays with firearms.

[Baitlayer]

During a recent conversation with some other LAFOs, the subject of travelling overnight with firearms was raised.Some said if staying at a motel they took the firearms out of their vehicle and into the motel room. Others said they left them secured in their vehicle.Out of curiosity I contacted Licensing and they informed me that it is an offence to leave a firearm unattended in a vehicle even if properly secured.Storing them in your motel room also breaches storage requirements.Their suggestion was that I should contact the local police station and arrange to store firearms there over night(fine if local station exists and is manned) or at the local gun shop(again, if one exists).So it would seem that overnight stops in WA are problematic.What do others on here when travelling in this situation?

[Daddybang]

Avoid WA!!

[YoungBuck]

Christ they like to make things hard don't they...

[hazza3006]

yeah a real grey area hey, also consider the situation traveling on plane with firearms legitimately ok'd with air carrier, i've done this myself for interstate hunting trips to NT, technically speaking you are not in control of firearms as they are stowed away classified as dangerous goods, and neither are the air carrier, even when all red tape is cleared etc.

Shockingly on my return, my air craft carrier lost one of my bag's which contained dissembled components in it, as per flight regulations.

It was a couple of heart wrenching days, luckily the missing bag arrived with everything in it.

gota love double standards hey.

[Baitlayer]

Yeah ,It would be interesting to know if it is an offence in other state as well.The info I was given was the opinion of Licencing branch worker.Don,t know how factual it is but have to assume they have some knowledge of the rules.

[Daddybang]

I think the worker hasn't got a clue.
For instance ya traveling from hedland to broome and stop for a feed at sandfire roadhouse are ya breakin the law by leaving ya firearms secured in a vehicle? Here in qld it's not an issue if ya away from ya nominated storage address. I do it all the time. For my own piece of mind I take it into the motel with me.

[Oldbloke]

Locked in car and out of sight in Vic. AOK

Preference is a locked case though.

Try the WA police web site. Heaps of info on the Vic web sight.

[Baitlayer]

As unreasonable and impractical as it sounds, In WAPOLs brochure on Firearms storage it states is an offence them in an unattended vehicle.

[Baitlayer]

Just checked WAPol again to be sure.And it states"Never leave a firearm unattended in a vehicle. It is an offence to do so." In nice bold letters. I wonder how far you have to be from said vehicle before it is considered unattended.If I can still see the vehicle whilst purchasing a feed,is that attended?Don't know if I would like to argue that point with a police officer hellbent on taking my firearms.

[Oldbloke]

No wonder they call WA Wait Awhile.

Waiting for them to have some common sense.

[Daddybang]

Just checked WAPol again to be sure.And it states"Never leave a firearm unattended in a vehicle. It is an offence to do so." In nice bold letters. I wonder how far you have to be from said vehicle before it is considered unattended.If I can still see the vehicle whilst purchasing a feed,is that attended?Don't know if I would like to argue that point with a police officer hellbent on taking my firearms.

In that case I offer an apology to the wapol worker.
That's really effed up. Ya might have to move east baitlayer!!!

[Baitlayer]

April. Roll on .Heading to SA. Will then start the process of reacquiring my licence and firearms.Let it lapse when I left Tassie and moved over here. Living in a caravan made it all to hard over here with the rest of it being such a pain and ridiculously expensive.Looking forward to getting settled in South Aus. But first a long trip to visit family up and down the Qld coast.

[Daddybang]

Good to hear ya got a plan!

[Oldbloke]

WTF. Does my head in. Completely ridiculous.

Glad I live in Vic. Even if the weather is rooted.

[Stix]

There was a similar thread to this recently.

I take mine in motel with me...if someone's gonna get em, they gonna have to physically work for them...!!!

[holden4th]

Unfortunately, as I've discovered, the people at licensing in WA, are very unsure of the rules and regulations. I made a query by phone and was passed through a number of people who at the end of the whole process had not satisfactorily answered my question. The blame is not with them but with WAPOL in general who seem to think that they can make laws on the spot. While they don't realise that their role is a management one and has nothing to do with governance they are pushing the boundaries of what they can legally do.

My advice, and it would apply to all states, not just WA, is to read the regulations and have a copy on hand at all times. You can use this copy when the police decide to enforce something that is not directly stated in the legislation. Simple questions such as "what comprises unattended?" and then producing the legislation will get most of our police to back off for the simple reason that you've demonstrated that you are far more familiar with the legislation than they are. And once again, don't completely blame the police as they have to try and interpret what the legislation says - not easy for them.

[sungazer]

it pisses me off every time its discussed. The rules were made for a good reason and that was to keep guns out of children's hands that would play with them like dad. There were lots of kids getting killed or injured. The rules were put in place and there were locked container requirements. Now it has been made into a security issue and there are requirements on the construction of the locked container. Why should they need such secure storage we have plenty of police to protect us and stop crime. We cant have or use a gun to protect ourselves, as the police say that's their job.

[AusTac]

Don't ask don't tell? I've found asking various questions of Government organizations regarding laws because i was/am trying to do the right thing that it's just to hard for them to give me a straight answer, you get passed around like a hot potato until someone fobs you off and that's it eaither leave it or go back to the start. Not much good when your in front of a judge though.

That said firearms in the wrong kind of hands is bad news ( as alot of objects are but that's another story ) i've actually not been in this overnight situation in the city but if it were a motel or whatever it would be inside personally, kind of like if you work with firearms as part of some sort of employment you sign out that firearm from the armoury in your name so it becomes your responsibility and you look after it no matter what and at the end of the shift/day/ex/training whatever you sign it back in an wash your hands of it

[Mr.Seacucumber]

Read the legislation and just act on that. At least you have something to fall back onto in court. Also don’t travel to WA.

[brett1868]

Take the firearm with you into the room, put it in the bed, tuck it in and climb in with it. This way it's technically within your possession

[RoginaJack]

Fair go "Sungazer", your statement has more holes in it than a piece of Swiss Cheese! " There were lots of Kids getting killed or injured"; care to give me some facts on that statement?

[darwindingo]

Take the firearm with you into the room, put it in the bed, tuck it in and climb in with it. This way it's technically within your possession

And ya missus said "Is that the fiddy or are ya just happy to see me Brett"

[AusTac]

It's only weird if it goes inside the sleeping bag

[sungazer]

I dont know where to go to find the stats but I grew up in that period and it was in the news a lot. I am pretty sure the keep the guns locked in a cupboard came into effect well before the 96 rules. Back then a clothes locker like you would have at work or school were acceptable.

[darwindingo]

It's only weird if it goes inside the sleeping bag

What ever happens in the sleeping bag stays in the sleeping bag It could get a little weird and hard to explain if the gun reported you for touching it in an inappropriate way though

[Archie]

they informed me that it is an offence to leave a firearm unattended in a vehicle even if properly secured.Storing them in your motel room also breaches storage requirement

Someone has finally come up with a system so stupid it even makes NSW look good.

I've never understood in particular why of all the states, WA was the one to go totally off the deep-end on firearm restrictions. Huge tracts of rural and bush areas, smaller % of urbanised population than the east (a bit smaller anyway), but they go nuts and its Victoria that stands out as fairly reasonable. Is there any reason for that?

[Wombat]

I dont know where to go to find the stats but I grew up in that period and it was in the news a lot. I am pretty sure the keep the guns locked in a cupboard came into effect well before the 96 rules. Back then a clothes locker like you would have at work or school were acceptable.

Victorias rules got changed after Hoddle St, if I remember correctly that is when the lockable storage requirement was brought in.

[Oldbloke]

I dont know where to go to find the stats but I grew up in that period and it was in the news a lot. I am pretty sure the keep the guns locked in a cupboard came into effect well before the 96 rules. Back then a clothes locker like you would have at work or school were acceptable.

Victorias rules got changed after Hoddle St, if I remember correctly that is when the lockable storage requirement was brought in.

Correct and the argument was to keep children from accessing. And that always made sense.

But now it's moving towards stopping theft and it's our fault if someone breaks in and steal's them.

[Baitlayer]

Well, I've waited this long. Another couple of months will give me more to plan my acquisitions.Maybe a nice CZ 452 22lr or I could checkout the new Tikka rimfire or maybe a Lithgow.And then a lefty Savage 10 in a MDT ESS chassis.Maybe 6.5 creedmore.A nice shottie then maybe something heavy 300WSM.So many choices! Oh and a good safe.Then I can learn to reload and buy all the stuff for that.Um might need a bigger house.Oh well Sort it out when we get there.In the mean time Keep dreaming and scheming.

[Oldbloke]

I dont know where to go to find the stats but I grew up in that period and it was in the news a lot. I am pretty sure the keep the guns locked in a cupboard came into effect well before the 96 rules. Back then a clothes locker like you would have at work or school were acceptable.

He is fairly close to the mark. The initial reason was to keep them from kids. And 96 sounds about the right year. There were a few instances of kids shooting other kids. But I have no stats to prove it. A school locker or wardrobe was OK. If you read the Vic Regs it still says wooden or steel container that's difficult to open. No mention of a safe.

I have never had an issue with the above. But forcing us to prevent theft is a big step.