Norinco jw15a accuracy

[McGarnagle]

Screenshot_20180320-180040.png (757.8 KiB) Viewed 16624 times

I just bought a jw15a in 22lr. So far I've put about 350 rounds through it with 7 different types of ammo. The best group I've shot so far are in the photo attached (10 shots at 50m. squares are 1 inch). Have people found these things get more accurate with use (of so how much use) and is there anything in particular that can be done to tighten these groups.

Thanks.

[Wombat]

What sort of rest were you using? Have you checked that everything is tightened to spec? What scope? Are the two flyers the first shots of the group?

[straightshooter]

If you are a beginner then your groups should improve with more practice.
One factor may be that you more than likely have an inexpensive scope intended for centerfire whose parallax setting will be in the range 100 to 150 meters. Even that can be overcome with practice and careful shooting.
Now put things into perspective, the finest smallbore target rifles using the very best ammo (ie. very expensive) rarely consistently shoot better than 0.5" groups at 50 meters.
In my opinion 1" or so groups out of a run of the mill rifle using run of the mill ammo is more than acceptable.

[in2anity]

I think the official accuracy guarantee for a four shot group through the jw15a is "less than 70mm at 50m" - now doesn't that scream loose manufacturing tolerances to you? I.e. there WILL be lemons out there (a lot worse than yours). In saying that, there are ways to acurize this rifle (that have been discussed on these forum before). Have a read of this thread from 2016: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=7263

[southeast varmiter]

I have one. They shoot Eley subsonic rounds like stink. Cloverleaf at 50M.
Or Winny 42gr.
Other ammo is like a dinner plate at 50

[hazza3006]

Did you thoroughly clean the barrel first? Many new rifles have left over gunk in the barrel that needs to be removed 1st. Sometimes the gunk is intentionally applied at factory as an anti corrosive measure for shipping. My new savage 22lr took a lot of cleaning initially to remove it all and have the bore shinning like new.

Then once the bore is clean, many 22lr wont group too well until the barrel is acclimated in the projectile wax. Can take upto a dozen or so shots before groups tighten....

[marksman]

it should shoot much better than that, even for a novice

[in2anity]

it should shoot much better than that, even for a novice

This is anecdotal.

[marksman]

it should shoot much better than that, even for a novice

This is anecdotal.

sorry you have assumed that that may be your cognisance

but all the norinco brno copy's I have ever seen are a bit rough in finish but shoot very well, unlike this one
if it were mine and was under warranty I would take it back if not move it on

[in2anity]

sorry you have assumed that that may be your cognisance

Incorrect, this has nothing to do with my "cognizance" (btw wtf?) From the manual, the only guarantee offered by Norinco for the JW15A is (and I quote) "Dispersion diameter for 4 round less than 70mm at range of 50m" please see here for more detail: download/file.php?id=5433

No disrespect mate, but you have to take it on a case-by-case basis; the accuracy of all JW15As will fall somewhere on a bell-curve spectrum of "shooters" right through to "lemons" (that probably group close to the 70mm mark); that's a fact. It's not as simply as stating "it should shoot much better than that". Unless you somehow have actual data pertaining the mean accuracy of a very LARGE sample size of JW15As? When I say LARGE, I mean a lot more than just your own personal experience + a few here-says on a gun forum.

In saying that, there is still hope OP. A lot can be done to improve your groups like free-floating and/or shimming the barrel. Bedding. Trigger job. etc. You will be able to shrink your groups with some acurization work.

[Wombat]

Or maybe even fixing some basic faults...

[Heckler303]

Hey McGarnagle, here's a few tips from a fellow Norinco owner (I'm on mobile so excuse the quickness of my sentences.)

Ok, so first thing's first, you are definitely going to want the lowest mounts you can find. The slant of that stock is a real pain and doesn't provide a comb high enough for resting your cheek (Hence why I ditched the sh!t plastic and got a wood stock, more on that later.) Cheek welds for me mean the difference between a comfortable rifle and one that's a wobble-matic.

Secondly, free-float that barrel. Take the stock away from it, and use a Dremel or some other tool, with a sanding device of some kind, and deepen the channel. Keep placing the barreled action back into the stock and run a piece of paper through to check for tight spots. Bedding with shims is also a really good idea, I've got brass shims side-by-side of the screw-holes and supporting all key areas. (This all assumes you have the plastic stock model, mind need to break out the sandpaper if its the cheap chinese wood crap.)

Thirdly, give all the moving parts a really good polish, say on a buffing wheel or from just a lot of steel wool and light grades of sandpaper (staying far away from the locking lug and back of the bolt handle.) The bolt's camming action is very tight and takes a bit of effort when brand new, but after some gentle polishing and cleaning + light lubrication, it runs smooth (and also a few hundred or so opening and closings ). When the majority of these are shipped, it comes in a box that has a lot of that mysterious chinese packing oil. Disassembly the whole thing to as far as you're capable and soak it in petrol to degrease the entire thing, then take the parts out, and spray it with water dispersal fluid. Clean them off, continue polishing/refining all the small working surfaces but do NOT take any type of file or stone to the trigger unit unless you know exactly what you're doing. It's a very particular little bugger, a full guide is available at GunrackNZ's guide to improving norinco's.

http://www.gunrack.co.nz/jw-15-trigger-improvement/

Fourthly, use any of the following ammo for best results, listed from most to least accurate:

Anything SK (Especially red-box match ammo))
Eley subsonic
Remington Subsonic
CCI Mini Mag
Winchester Super Speed
CCI Stingers
Winchester Powerpoint
Winchester Z's (useless stuff anyway)

I'll get more details later. Happy shootin

[marksman]

sorry you have assumed that that may be your cognisance

Incorrect, this has nothing to do with my "cognizance" (btw wtf?) From the manual, the only guarantee offered by Norinco for the JW15A is (and I quote) "Dispersion diameter for 4 round less than 70mm at range of 50m" please see here for more detail: download/file.php?id=5433

No disrespect mate, but you have to take it on a case-by-case basis; the accuracy of all JW15As will fall somewhere on a bell-curve spectrum of "shooters" right through to "lemons" (that probably group close to the 70mm mark); that's a fact. It's not as simply as stating "it should shoot much better than that". Unless you somehow have actual data pertaining the mean accuracy of a very LARGE sample size of JW15As? When I say LARGE, I mean a lot more than just your own personal experience + a few here-says on a gun forum.

In saying that, there is still hope OP. A lot can be done to improve your groups like free-floating and/or shimming the barrel. Bedding. Trigger job. etc. You will be able to shrink your groups with some acurization work.

no disrespect at all, I thought you were being funny I was trying to be
but advise I would give op from experience is to take it back and have it checked out before changing anything and crapping all over your warranty
these rifles are not a bad rifle and do shoot much better than this one does, ok from what I have seen
but that is from my experience setting up rifles for others who come to me to tweak them
once you commit to change you throw the warranty away
op should have been able to find way better grouping from at least one of the 7 types of ammo he has tried so far unless there is fault in the rifle
it would come down to what you would expect from the factory, in this day and age it should be a lot better than the barn door
IMO the op should take the rifle back to where he bought it and get it looked at by the distributors gunsmith
just saying

[McGarnagle]

Thanks guys.

As for the points raised by everyone, I'm not a novice but not an expert either. Last month I shot my. 223 off the bipod at 100m and put 5 rounds in 18mm centre to centre. So I don't think it all me in this case.

I shot this group off a bench with the rifle on a home made rest. The group was shot from. A dirty barrel and those two fliers happened randomly through the group.

The scope is just a cheap 6X magnification that came with the rifle.

When I got the rifle I stripped it down and gave everything a good clean, including the bore. It was pretty well covered in grease.

I've read a number of reviews on these rifles. Some say float the barrel, some say don't as there is a pressure Point at the end of the stock needed for accuracy (this in particular I don't know much about or how it works. If anyone can fill me in on this.)

As for the barrel to getting enough coating or "seasoning", how many rounds would it take for groups to settle down? Groups have tightened up a bit since the first 150 rounds but this is my first new rifle so still not sure on a lot of this break in stuff.

[Gwion]

Two points i agree with here so far (ok, three).

1/ We need to know if the bore and chamber were properly cleaned before firing. Firing a rifle with goo or even oil in the bore can cause significant damage to the bore which would completely ruin accuracy forever in that barrel.

2/ if you are new to shooting there are many many factors that could be contributing to your dodgy groups.

And

3/ Don't change anything until you get it checked out (or learn to shoit better)

A/ I'd borrow a rifle of known accuracy with known ammo and see how good your groups are. That will answer if it is you or the rifle.

B/ Honestly. Did you clean the bore thouroghly before firing?

C/ Once eliminating a & b, take it to get checked. If it comes back as "nope, within acceptable tolerances" then,

D/ Start playing around with shims and bedding and stuff.....

[Wombat]

Checking that its all been put together properly wont void any warranty. If its loose in the stock or rings it wont matter how good a shot you are.

[Gwion]

Good point Wombi.
Playing with screw tentions is a good place to syart that won't hurt a warranty claim.

[McGarnagle]

Thanks guys. Are start paying with some of these ideas and see how it goes.

Cheers.

[in2anity]

Thanks guys. Are start paying with some of these ideas and see how it goes.

Cheers.

Hey at least it's a cheap rifle - even if you void the warranty, all things considered, how much are you really losing here? I say it's the perfect starter rifle for bubba-smithing 101 training

[straightshooter]

For some inexplicable reason some of the comments on this and many other threads remind me of this Far Side cartoon.

[Gwion]

For some inexplicable reason some of the comments on this and many other threads remind me of this Far Side cartoon.

[Wm.Traynor]

Remove grease from the outside of the metal. Remove grease from the stock where it made contact with the metal. ditto the inside of the mag.

[Wombat]

Remove grease from the outside of the metal. Remove grease from the stock where it made contact with the metal. ditto the inside of the mag.

Do you mean remove the barreled action from the stock and clean both surfaces plus the magwell etc? Because that is what I reckon step 1 should be

[Wm.Traynor]

Remove grease from the outside of the metal. Remove grease from the stock where it made contact with the metal. ditto the inside of the mag.

Do you mean remove the barreled action from the stock and clean both surfaces plus the magwell etc? Because that is what I reckon step 1 should be

Inside the magazine, itself. Those Chinese even put grease in there. Don't trust them not to (insert paranoia emoticon ). If that stuff contaminates the cartridge anywhere it will play Merry Hell with accuracy
Step 1 should be to remove the grease from the bore using a Loose patch so that the metal chips In. The. Bore. will not be forced into Hard Contact with the lovely new bore.

[McGarnagle]

The first thing I did when I got it was strip it right down and clean everything including the magazines. Especially the bore.

[Gwion]

The first thing I did when I got it was strip it right down and clean everything including the magazines. Especially the bore.

That answers one question.

Next. What are you groups like with a rifle of known reliable accuracy?

[in2anity]

The first thing I did when I got it was strip it right down and clean everything including the magazines. Especially the bore.

That answers one question.

Next. What are you groups like with a rifle of known reliable accuracy?

OP on the first page:

Thanks guys.
As for the points raised by everyone, I'm not a novice but not an expert either. Last month I shot my. 223 off the bipod at 100m and put 5 rounds in 18mm centre to centre. So I don't think it all me in this case.

[Gwion]

Ok. Missed that post. Sorry.

So that brings it to trying out different action screw tensions and maybe fitting a rimfire specific scope to reduce paralax error.

If that still doesn't improve, I'd try washers between action and stock at the action screws. This is an easy way to test if the barrel wants to be floated before comitting to removing material anywhere.....

[pomemax]

Use a torque wrench on the screws After you have cleaned it inside and out, from your target you said you had fire arm on a rest ? what part of the firearm the barrel or the timber/stock it makes a big difference some newer shoots don,t think that it matters but believe me it will
Once you sorta get it OK DON,T clean the bore you will see it improve when you have put enough wax in the barrel your grouping should tighten up shooting @ 50 m a group of .5 of an inch is not improbable with the Jw15a just remember when you clean the wax out your starting all over again

[marksman]

McGarnagle
this may help with your issue's
http://www.aircapgunclub.org/articles/R ... _Pt_I.html
especially pay attention to the first part (cleaning the rifle) and the first 3 lines!
but if it is a barrel/chamber misalignment or crown problem it needs to be looked at by a competent gunsmith to sort
these things are not uncommon in Norinco rifles