Revolver or semi style pistol your favourite?

Semi automatic and single shot handguns, revolvers and other pistols

Re: Revolver or semi style pistol your favourite?

Post by bladeracer » 08 Oct 2018, 11:17 pm

Urastus wrote:6" drop for 9mm at 100 yards (91m), according to Paul :) 5.7 at 100 yards, 0. It's not just that, sure 9mm can do it, but why not have a caliber that is good for targets and comps? With rifles we have .308 which is good for shooting deer, but the 6.5cm is supposedly king on the range and less recoil with a smaller slug. You don't need huge recoil or a big slug. 9mm is a compromise really for self defense; it makes a big hole, it punches through layers of clothing blah blah, reasonable recoil, reasonable follow up shots. I'll probably end up with 9mm, because it's easy (cheap, wide availability). But I think there are better rounds for what us club shooters do, or want to do. I'd take a poke at the 200m gong :)


Drop at 100yds is dependant on what range you are zeroed at, but I guess what I meant is, for the potential accuracy you get from a 9mm semi-auto, you can hold dead-on to 100m. I don't recall what sort of groups I could shoot at 100m, but I could regularly hit the head of the old-style IPSC silhouette target at 85m (the longest range we had at the time) offhand, so I would guess around 8-10MoA offhand. I can't recall ever doing any rested target shooting past about 25m with a handgun. I did fairly regularly check zero, which was about a palm-width high at about 30m offhand (sight picture level with the shoulders for head shots), and I really only used 147gn bullets - I still have a few rounds of it.

I was able to shoot most of the cartridges that people were using in IPSC - 9mm, .38 Super, .40 S&W, .45ACP, .38 Special, .357 Magnum and .44 Magnum and probably a few odd ones that I've forgotton. I prefer 9mm for IPSC, but for simple enjoyment of shooting I prefer the .357 Magnum revolver.
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Re: Revolver or semi style pistol your favourite?

Post by Urastus » 09 Oct 2018, 11:23 am

Hah, most people seem a bit reluctant to shoot 357, it's almost like "I suppose I must" :) Are you one of those dudes who loves the recoil? I do. Like riding a triumph rocket and you want it to go harder. Dudes have damaged their hearing (blown ear drums) shooting them in confined spaces.
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Re: Revolver or semi style pistol your favourite?

Post by bladeracer » 09 Oct 2018, 11:44 am

Urastus wrote:Hah, most people seem a bit reluctant to shoot 357, it's almost like "I suppose I must" :) Are you one of those dudes who loves the recoil? I do. Like riding a triumph rocket and you want it to go harder. Dudes have damaged their hearing (blown ear drums) shooting them in confined spaces.


Nope, I hate recoil :-)
.44 Mag with full-power loads is manageable but too much for regular shooting, but lighter .44 loads and .357 Mag aren't a problem. I have no interest in shooting something painful just to add it to my experience. I did get to shoot some sort of blackpowder percussion revolver when I was very young and showed up at a pistol club for a look see - that was okay.

I've shot 9mm from inside vehicles, including an M113 APC, oil drums and such and the recoil and blast can cause PTSD :-)
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Re: Revolver or semi style pistol your favourite?

Post by Urastus » 09 Oct 2018, 4:47 pm

I saw black powder handguns at a club in Kununurra eons ago. All I remember is how loud it was, and not being able to see anything for a minute or so - Kaboooom! How was your hearing after the m113? I'm guessing you didn't have ears on.
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Re: Revolver or semi style pistol your favourite?

Post by bladeracer » 09 Oct 2018, 5:05 pm

Urastus wrote:I saw black powder handguns at a club in Kununurra eons ago. All I remember is how loud it was, and not being able to see anything for a minute or so - Kaboooom! How was your hearing after the m113? I'm guessing you didn't have ears on.


I did a shoot at Kununurra pistol club in '92 while I was working up there. I only went once though, I preferred to fly to Darwin or Perth every eight weeks to shoot an IPSC comp.

We had ears on :-)
The APC was at Swanbourne Barracks in Perth when we shot IPSC with the SAS. One bloke had a desert Eagle which people were lining up to see him shooting that thing in the APC :-)

Shooting IPSC double-taps while laying in or crawling through 44-gallon drums was probably the most brutal shock waves I've experienced from a handgun.
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Re: Revolver or semi style pistol your favourite?

Post by Urastus » 10 Oct 2018, 2:32 pm

Awesome! I was there not long before you, I think. Maybe not long after K89. I had keys to the rowing club, used to go rowing on lake kununurra with the crocs (it really improved my balance :) ), and then to the pistol club a couple of hundred meters away. That was my Sat morning. I remember desert eagles when they were the only auto that ran 375 - they really had a reputation in those days. I was in norforce (army reserve) we did all our training with SAS because we were the same sort of unit - reconnaissance and surveillance with an emphasis on self reliance for extended periods (ie living off the land). We had experts like Les Hiddens teaching us. Lots of sneaky stuff without any confrontation - it was fun though.
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Re: Revolver or semi style pistol your favourite?

Post by bladeracer » 10 Oct 2018, 2:43 pm

Urastus wrote:Awesome! I was there not long before you, I think. Maybe not long after K89. I had keys to the rowing club, used to go rowing on lake kununurra with the crocs (it really improved my balance :) ), and then to the pistol club a couple of hundred meters away. That was my Sat morning. I remember desert eagles when they were the only auto that ran 375 - they really had a reputation in those days.


I used to go fishing in the Ord River area in behind Argyle with the blackfellas, big catfish and even bigger crocs :-)
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Re: Revolver or semi style pistol your favourite?

Post by Urastus » 10 Oct 2018, 4:46 pm

There were commercial fishing operations on lake argyle for big cat fish (over 1 meter). They called them silver cobbler. I swam with the big ones once (with goggles) and they scared s**t out of me :) I had to remind myself that they don't have teeth. They all came at me and started chomping me with their gums. On long trips I used to live on catfish and donkey. I'd shoot a donkey, spend a day butchering and smoking the meat.
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Re: Revolver or semi style pistol your favourite?

Post by vmaxaust » 11 Oct 2018, 5:53 am

grainweight wrote:Just in terms of personal preference what do you like?

Casting a vote for revolver here, cause they got style! 8-)


Semi auto person here...45ACP, 9mm and 22. However, my Ruger GP100 38/357 is so great out of the box it's hard not be a wheelgun person as well.
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Re: Revolver or semi style pistol your favourite?

Post by JSS » 11 Oct 2018, 8:31 am

I've got a foot in both camps, i put a lot more rounds through my semi's, but then nothing beats a ruger vaquero in 357mag to put a smile on your face.

There's only one thing better than a cowboy gun, and that's a pair of cowboy guns :drinks:
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Re: Revolver or semi style pistol your favourite?

Post by Rod_outbak » 11 Oct 2018, 11:41 am

I've fired some really nice revolvers in my life. Neighbour had a Colt Python 6" in .357, and it was sweet to fire. It just rolled in your hand, and was back in line for the next round in an eyeblink. My Colt Anaconda (.45LC) was much the same, only bigger. No-one who fired it ever complained about the Anaconda being nasty to shoot.
Same story for a few S&W 686, and a S&W 617 (Not sure about that model - blued .357 with 6" barrel) that I've fired; all roll nicely in your fist, and fabulous guns.

Even that BFR that I fired here in .30-30, was quite a pleasant beast to shoot. Heavy and huge, but the recoil was nicely managed.

The two revolvers I've fired that I hated were a Ruger Redhawk in some bitey calibre, which was scarey violent to shoot. Other was a revolver my BIL bought on bad advice; I think it was a Ruger Blackhawk, in .30 Carbine, of all calibres! Bloody thing had a 7.5" barrel, but the bloody handgrip only came half-way down my palm, and there just wasnt enough handgrip to tame the rather sharp recoil. Thankfully, he got rid of it fairly quickly, and bought a little .22 Auto.

I have handled a Ruger GP100 with a 6" barrel in stainless w/- rubber grips, and it felt like it would be a nice thing to shoot, but havent tried one out.
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Re: Revolver or semi style pistol your favourite?

Post by Urastus » 17 Oct 2018, 10:55 am

Hey Rod, the 686 and the gp100 are often compared in reviews. They seem evenly split. I continued researching the whole revolver vs pistol thing, funny enough velocities aren't uniformly better or worse with either action, mostly it comes down to individual guns. I've seen a lot of failure to feed and failure to eject with pistols, esp in .22, so I'm still thinking revolver.
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Re: Revolver or semi style pistol your favourite?

Post by bladeracer » 17 Oct 2018, 12:18 pm

Urastus wrote:Hey Rod, the 686 and the gp100 are often compared in reviews. They seem evenly split. I continued researching the whole revolver vs pistol thing, funny enough velocities aren't uniformly better or worse with either action, mostly it comes down to individual guns. I've seen a lot of failure to feed and failure to eject with pistols, esp in .22, so I'm still thinking revolver.


.22LR semi-auto's can be finicky, but they should run just fine when you work out which ammo they like the best.
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Re: Revolver or semi style pistol your favourite?

Post by Rod_outbak » 17 Oct 2018, 2:48 pm

Yep; found that out the other day. Bought a couple of hundred of the all-copper CCI .22LR rounds, for pokking toads with the handgun.

Silly me; the Ceiner .22 conversion on the 1911 doesnt like the damn things; keeps failing to properly cycle every 4th or 5th round.

Shoots all day on the .22 Bushman ammo we use most of the time, but this all-copper stuff must be just too light to work the action properly.
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Re: Revolver or semi style pistol your favourite?

Post by bladeracer » 17 Oct 2018, 2:55 pm

Rod_outbak wrote:Yep; found that out the other day. Bought a couple of hundred of the all-copper CCI .22LR rounds, for pokking toads with the handgun.

Silly me; the Ceiner .22 conversion on the 1911 doesnt like the damn things; keeps failing to properly cycle every 4th or 5th round.

Shoots all day on the .22 Bushman ammo we use most of the time, but this all-copper stuff must be just too light to work the action properly.


CCI Copper-22 is bloody expensive toad food.
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Re: Revolver or semi style pistol your favourite?

Post by Rod_outbak » 18 Oct 2018, 7:22 am

....and putting bucketloads of lead from normal ammo into the banks of dams isnt ideal, either.

I bought them for particular instances where I cant reach the toads to skewer them, but dont want to be spreading lead all over the waters edge.

Anyway; not really anyone else's concern what I use them for; is it?
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Re: Revolver or semi style pistol your favourite?

Post by bladeracer » 18 Oct 2018, 1:53 pm

Rod_outbak wrote:....and putting bucketloads of lead from normal ammo into the banks of dams isnt ideal, either.

I bought them for particular instances where I cant reach the toads to skewer them, but dont want to be spreading lead all over the waters edge.

Anyway; not really anyone else's concern what I use them for; is it?


I recover most of my bullets for re-use, but I doubt bullets do much harm once they're back below ground.

Nobody's concern but yours :-)
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Re: Revolver or semi style pistol your favourite?

Post by Gaznazdiak » 18 Oct 2018, 3:10 pm

Some interesting reading on that subject.

https://www.princeton.edu/~rmizzo/firin ... m#mobility
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Re: Revolver or semi style pistol your favourite?

Post by bladeracer » 18 Oct 2018, 3:41 pm

Gaznazdiak wrote:Some interesting reading on that subject.

https://www.princeton.edu/~rmizzo/firin ... m#mobility


Interesting study.
"According to estimates by the Environmental Working Group, outdoor firing ranges put more lead into the environment than any other industry in the U.S., with the exception of metals mining and manufacturing." They didn't explain how tiny concentrations of lead at "...currently 1813 commercial outdoor firing ranges registered..." has any effect on the greater environment. 1800 firing ranges, at let's guess 10 acres each, is 18,000 acres across the entire US. It could even be argued that the thousands of shooters in the towns around the range have more lead bullets in their homes than the range does in the ground.

People still dig up ancient lead bullets so it must take a very, very long time for them to corrode and leach away into the soil. A mate of mine was prospecting up around Kalgoorlie and all he found was old bullets :-)
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Re: Revolver or semi style pistol your favourite?

Post by Daddybang » 18 Oct 2018, 4:46 pm

I wonder if they're as worried about all the lead sinkers that would be in the waterways?? :unknown: :drinks:
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Re: Revolver or semi style pistol your favourite?

Post by Gaznazdiak » 18 Oct 2018, 5:11 pm

Different metal I know, but there's a block of land inside the city limits of Goulburn that was the site of an old dip, apparently there is a ban on the sale or development of it because of arsenic levels still in the soil from the late 19th, early 20th Century use.

Signs stenciled on gutters around town tell you "The drain is just for rain". And arsenic runoff, apparently.
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Re: Revolver or semi style pistol your favourite?

Post by bladeracer » 18 Oct 2018, 5:20 pm

Gaznazdiak wrote:Different metal I know, but there's a block of land inside the city limits of Goulburn that was the site of an old dip, apparently there is a ban on the sale or development of it because of arsenic levels still in the soil from the late 19th, early 20th Century use.

Signs stenciled on gutters around town tell you "The drain is just for rain". And arsenic runoff, apparently.


It's not unusual for bullets and shot to contain arsenic as well.
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Re: Revolver or semi style pistol your favourite?

Post by Gaznazdiak » 18 Oct 2018, 5:43 pm

Aren't our distant descendants, if anthropocentric global warming allows any, going to look at us with fond humor.

The legacies of corporate greed and political expediency will outlast any "good" done by their products.
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Re: Revolver or semi style pistol your favourite?

Post by Rod_outbak » 18 Oct 2018, 5:52 pm

[quote="Gaznazdiak"]

Different metal I know, but there's a block of land inside the city limits of Goulburn that was the site of an old dip, apparently there is a ban on the sale or development of it because of arsenic levels still in the soil from the late 19th, early 20th Century use.

Signs stenciled on gutters around town tell you "The drain is just for rain". And arsenic runoff, apparently.

[/quote]

One of the reasons that Biosecurity QLD want all old rubbish dumps fenced, is because hungry/desperate cattle (during drought) will eat the lead out of old car batteries. When starved enough, they seem to crave the taste (likely a serious deficiency of some mineral).
Have seen a few cattle who are suffering from the affects of eating lead (themselves, and NOT from a bullet), it's not pretty.
I have a cousin down near Goondoowindi, who had owned a block for over 10 years, and found a cow acting strangely one day. After discovering she was affected by lead, they back-tracked, and found someone had dumped a car battery out in the middle of this paddock years ago, and Mrs Moo had been chewing on it.

Mind you; seeing Mrs Moo munching on a dessicated roo carcass isnt pretty; either...
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Re: Revolver or semi style pistol your favourite?

Post by Gaznazdiak » 18 Oct 2018, 6:47 pm

And that's just the accidental stuff Rod.

There is a wide range of pet products, available on Australian supermarket shelves, that have been deliberately adulterated.

I lost my last dog, a much loved Tenterfield Terrier, to a condition called Sudden Onset Fanconi-like Syndrome.

He had a brain injury(like his human) and was quite neurotic and a very picky eater. I finally found something he really seemed to like, a chicken jerky branded as Jerhigh Chicken Tenders.

He would scoff them and actually pester me for more. Being a terminal sook with my dogs, I gave him all he wanted.

Almost out of the blue, he became seriously ill with what turned out to be terminal kidney failure, brought about by nodules of a plastic like substance forming in the tubules of his kidneys.

Remember the 300,000 Chinese babies who came down with sudden kidney failure in 2008? The cause of the Chinese lust for Australian baby formula?
This happened when melamine, a pesticide residue used to manufacture plastic was put into the milk.
Melamine, when added to a food product will return a falsely high protein level when the product is tested, allowing low quality produce to be sold as high quality.

This is still going on. Over 7,000 dogs in the US and 1,000 in Australia have died because of this and nobody seems to give a toss.

I contacted the supermarket, they weren't interested, I asked my vet for a report of the results of the necropsy I had him perform, he refused to put his name to it for fear of reprisal.

We have lethally toxic pet products on sale here purely to spread our cheeks to China.

Many of us may have a cheap laugh at Homer's socialist conspiracy theories, myself included, but there is a definite threat from our own politicians, right and left, bowing to expediency where low quality Chinese imports are concerned.

My apologies for digressing a pistol related thread.
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Re: Revolver or semi style pistol your favourite?

Post by Boo » 20 Oct 2018, 8:29 am

Well that put a brake on things LOL.

One thing about 22's failing to fire, both pistols and revolvers use firing pins so there is no difference there. also 22's are much more likely to fail than centre fires due to the detonator arrangement.
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Re: Revolver or semi style pistol your favourite?

Post by bladeracer » 20 Oct 2018, 10:12 am

Boo wrote:Well that put a brake on things LOL.

One thing about 22's failing to fire, both pistols and revolvers use firing pins so there is no difference there. also 22's are much more likely to fail than centre fires due to the detonator arrangement.


Revolvers will usually have more force due to the length of the hammer.
Yes, the biggest deficiency in rim fire ammo is the inconsistent priming.
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