Roo ammo

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Roo ammo

Post by Archie » 21 Oct 2018, 5:13 pm

Got a question which I'm pretty sure is a stupid one, but I'd rather ask than find out the hard way.

Mate has asked me to help him remove some roos from his property (he has a permit). I have very little experience in shooting roos, and on the couple I have shot in the past I have used a 243 with 95g ballistic silvertips and the results were pretty definitive - bang, flop. Not surprising given its designed for deer.

I have a 223 varmint rifle, which I'd like to use for this. In the past I've only used it for foxes and rabbits. It's a 1-12 twist, so I usually use lighter bullets - normally the Outback factory ammo which is 55g Sierra Blitzkings. I'd mainly like to use it because I'm a better shot with it, although happy enough to use the 243 if needed. Anything bigger seems like overkill.

So my questions are

1/ do you still have to headshoot them or are chest shots ok? Don't really mind either way but generally I always prefer chest to head shots on everything.
2/ are blitzkings the right bullet? if not, any recommendations?
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Re: Roo ammo

Post by SCJ429 » 21 Oct 2018, 5:36 pm

Blitzkings are pretty handy as are Vmax and Speer TNT. Well directed chest shot put them down every time.
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Re: Roo ammo

Post by duncan61 » 21 Oct 2018, 5:39 pm

If the carcasses are going for sale then head shots need to be taken and either rifle will work if you're going to hit them in the boiler room go the.243 to be sure.Under 100 metres the 95gn silvertips will hydraulic all the organs which is why they drop on the spot
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Re: Roo ammo

Post by Rod_outbak » 21 Oct 2018, 5:44 pm

You dont mention what sort of distance average you might be shooting?
We use a lot of Hornady 55gn Vmax/Zmax pills, which work pretty well. Overseer is pokking with these pills most days, and find them devastating for head shots out to around 200 metres. We are currently working through a few thousand Zmax pills, and at around ~$135 per 500, they are great value for money. My overseer keeps raving about them, and he's not usually very gushy about ammunition...
Another option might be the Speer 55Gn TNT HP projectiles; at ~$31/100, they look to be not bad value.

I've seen dozens of different projectiles used/reccomended for roos. Whatever works, but around 55gns in a .223 seems to work pretty well.
With a 1-12 twist, I dont think you'll be able to go much heavier.


In the .243, I've also used the 95Gn BT pills, and found them awesome. However, a cheaper option that performs very well, is the Hornady Vmax 87gn. Flys straight, and hits really hard. It should be cheaper than the Nosler 95BT.
Cheers,

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Re: Roo ammo

Post by bigfellascott » 21 Oct 2018, 6:00 pm

Pretty much any 50-55gn pill will sort roos out, I've used plenty of 50gn pills of all sorts on roos and they all seem to work well, I've got a bit of a fondness of the 55gn Sierra Super Roos they just kill things very well indeed.!
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Re: Roo ammo

Post by Archie » 21 Oct 2018, 6:13 pm

Rod_outbak wrote:You dont mention what sort of distance average you might be shooting?
We use a lot of Hornady 55gn Vmax/Zmax pills, which work pretty well. Overseer is pokking with these pills most days, and find them devastating for head shots out to around 200 metres. We are currently working through a few thousand Zmax pills, and at around ~$135 per 500, they are great value for money. My overseer keeps raving about them, and he's not usually very gushy about ammunition...
Another option might be the Speer 55Gn TNT HP projectiles; at ~$31/100, they look to be not bad value.

I've seen dozens of different projectiles used/reccomended for roos. Whatever works, but around 55gns in a .223 seems to work pretty well.
With a 1-12 twist, I dont think you'll be able to go much heavier.


In the .243, I've also used the 95Gn BT pills, and found them awesome. However, a cheaper option that performs very well, is the Hornady Vmax 87gn. Flys straight, and hits really hard. It should be cheaper than the Nosler 95BT.
Cheers,

Rod.


Cheers. In terms of range, personally I wouldn't want to be trying for headshots past 200m and I doubt anything longer would be needed. If it ends up being longer than that I'll go for a chest shot, and in that case it sounds like 243 is the go. These won't be for sale, it's just trying to cut down the numbers on the pasture.
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Re: Roo ammo

Post by duncan61 » 21 Oct 2018, 6:24 pm

Go the .243 and let them have it.are they all eastern greys are do you get reds
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Re: Roo ammo

Post by Jon79 » 21 Oct 2018, 8:14 pm

Been shooting heaps of roos here on the drought permits, 243 ammo is way too dear and over kill, was using the 223 55gn blitzkings but have found the gamekings much better
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Re: Roo ammo

Post by Rod_outbak » 21 Oct 2018, 8:19 pm

[quote="Archie"]
[quote="Rod_outbak"]
You dont mention what sort of distance average you might be shooting?
We use a lot of Hornady 55gn Vmax/Zmax pills, which work pretty well. Overseer is pokking with these pills most days, and find them devastating for head shots out to around 200 metres. We are currently working through a few thousand Zmax pills, and at around ~$135 per 500, they are great value for money. My overseer keeps raving about them, and he's not usually very gushy about ammunition...
Another option might be the Speer 55Gn TNT HP projectiles; at ~$31/100, they look to be not bad value.

I've seen dozens of different projectiles used/reccomended for roos. Whatever works, but around 55gns in a .223 seems to work pretty well.
With a 1-12 twist, I dont think you'll be able to go much heavier.


In the .243, I've also used the 95Gn BT pills, and found them awesome. However, a cheaper option that performs very well, is the Hornady Vmax 87gn. Flys straight, and hits really hard. It should be cheaper than the Nosler 95BT.
Cheers,

Rod.
[/quote]

Cheers. In terms of range, personally I wouldn't want to be trying for headshots past 200m and I doubt anything longer would be needed. If it ends up being longer than that I'll go for a chest shot, and in that case it sounds like 243 is the go. These won't be for sale, it's just trying to cut down the numbers on the pasture.
[/quote]

Archie,

Sorry; I mis-read what you originally posted. For some reason, I thought you were reloading, but you were asking about factory loads??

In .223 ammo Hornady currently loads/sell 55gn VMax pills in 50-round boxes for around $55 a box.

As far as factory .243 ammo, some of the Buffalo River/OSA/ADI .243 ammo is loaded with 87gn Vmax pills, and I have been working through a 480-round can of that in the past 6 months. Very consistent, nice brass to reload with afterwards, and they hit really hard.

I thought Hornady also made a 87Gn VMax load in .243 which was nigh identical, but I cant seem to find it, so may be discontinued.

If you are staying inside 200 metres, you are going to get a lot more roos on the ground with the .223 for the same money, but the .243 would be a nice Plan B.

Happy Pokking.

Cheers,

Rod.
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Re: Roo ammo

Post by bigpete » 21 Oct 2018, 9:44 pm

Read the code of conduct for non commercial kangaroo culling.
Pretty darn sure you still have to head shoot them whether you're shooting to sell the carcasses or not
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Re: Roo ammo

Post by duncan61 » 21 Oct 2018, 10:34 pm

I agree.if the plan is to reduce numbers it's more humane to instantly kill with a headshot
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Re: Roo ammo

Post by Roo farmer » 22 Oct 2018, 1:18 am

Archie wrote:Cheers. In terms of range, personally I wouldn't want to be trying for headshots past 200m and I doubt anything longer would be needed. If it ends up being longer than that I'll go for a chest shot, and in that case it sounds like 243 is the go. These won't be for sale, it's just trying to cut down the numbers on the pasture.


Perhaps check the conditions of the permit. If it's anything like the permits I have had, (South Australia) even though it's just culling and not for sale of carcasses, they stipulate head shots with a 55grain or larger projectile going at 3000 feet per second or faster.

I personally have no problem with people culling roos with chest shots, however just depends how concerned you are about following the permit conditions.
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Post by bigpete » 22 Oct 2018, 5:49 am

Roo farmer wrote:
Archie wrote:Cheers. In terms of range, personally I wouldn't want to be trying for headshots past 200m and I doubt anything longer would be needed. If it ends up being longer than that I'll go for a chest shot, and in that case it sounds like 243 is the go. These won't be for sale, it's just trying to cut down the numbers on the pasture.


Perhaps check the conditions of the permit. If it's anything like the permits I have had, (South Australia) even though it's just culling and not for sale of carcasses, they stipulate head shots with a 55grain or larger projectile going at 3000 feet per second or faster.

I personally have no problem with people culling roos with chest shots, however just depends how concerned you are about following the permit conditions.


There is a nation wide code of conduct outlining methods and calibres
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Re: Roo ammo

Post by Archie » 22 Oct 2018, 7:32 am

bigpete wrote:
Roo farmer wrote:
Archie wrote:Cheers. In terms of range, personally I wouldn't want to be trying for headshots past 200m and I doubt anything longer would be needed. If it ends up being longer than that I'll go for a chest shot, and in that case it sounds like 243 is the go. These won't be for sale, it's just trying to cut down the numbers on the pasture.


Perhaps check the conditions of the permit. If it's anything like the permits I have had, (South Australia) even though it's just culling and not for sale of carcasses, they stipulate head shots with a 55grain or larger projectile going at 3000 feet per second or faster.

I personally have no problem with people culling roos with chest shots, however just depends how concerned you are about following the permit conditions.


There is a nation wide code of conduct outlining methods and calibres


Thanks guys.

As suggested, I took a look at the NSW guide (here if anyone wants https://www.dpi.nsw.gov.au/__data/asset ... -guide.pdf ) and yep, headshots are mandatory.
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Re: Roo ammo

Post by Bruiser64 » 22 Oct 2018, 8:06 pm

The code of practise is very clear about what is required as you have said. It also mandates a maximum shot distance of 200 metres. I would suggest using the ammo that shoots best in your 223. The need to comply with the code of practise means there is nothing to be gained using the .243. A roo’s head is not built so solidly that a pill heavier than 55 grains is warranted in my view. I am using my .204 (using 40 grain max pills) these days in preference to my 243. The results are emphatic when a roo is headshot. Obviously getting as close as possible without spooking the Roos is my preferred option as well. My understanding is DPI in NSW do conduct spot checks, so it pays to be compliant.
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Re: Roo ammo

Post by Blr243 » 31 Oct 2018, 6:07 pm

I use v max between the front legs Violent expansion very little chance of any part of the projectile continuing on to hit an unseen cow laying down in the grass I never shoot for the head It means more misses and more misses mean more chance of shooting something else behind the roo
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Re: Roo ammo

Post by HereSkip » 07 Nov 2018, 10:14 am

Blr243 wrote:I use v max between the front legs Violent expansion very little chance of any part of the projectile continuing on to hit an unseen cow laying down in the grass I never shoot for the head It means more misses and more misses mean more chance of shooting something else behind the roo


sounds like you couldnt hit water if you fell off a boat
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Re: Roo ammo

Post by Die Judicii » 07 Nov 2018, 8:44 pm

DVC01136.JPG
DVC01136.JPG (375.75 KiB) Viewed 2205 times
This one didn't get up to argue or discuss the effectiveness or not.

Just on 220 meter mark.
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Re: Roo ammo

Post by HereSkip » 08 Nov 2018, 5:47 am

Die Judicii wrote:
DVC01136.JPG
This one didn't get up to argue or discuss the effectiveness or not.

Just on 220 meter mark.

nice shot :friends:
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Re: Roo ammo

Post by Kelsey Cooter » 08 Nov 2018, 6:29 am

I do alot of roo culling and i believe its got to be gamekings not blitzkings. I think if your using 223 it sould always be head/neck shots on big roos, you'll find it won't take long to get bloody good at headshotting them
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Re: Roo ammo

Post by bigfellascott » 08 Nov 2018, 1:17 pm

Die Judicii wrote:
DVC01136.JPG
This one didn't get up to argue or discuss the effectiveness or not.

Just on 220 meter mark.


That's cos it's got a splitting headache :D You should see the damage the Sierra Super Roos do to em, very messy indeed as are the Blitzkings, had quite a few with heads completely gone on em out (50gn BK out of the 222 at 50-80m range) it looked like they were removed surgically :shock:
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Re: Roo ammo

Post by Bruiser64 » 08 Nov 2018, 3:51 pm

Kelsey Cooter wrote:I do alot of roo culling and i believe its got to be gamekings not blitzkings. I think if your using 223 it sould always be head/neck shots on big roos, you'll find it won't take long to get bloody good at headshotting them


I am very happy with the performance of the 40 grain vmaxs in my 204. There is no doubt about the outcome when you headshoot a roo with that little sucker. The 87 grain vmaxs in the 243 are even less ambiguous. I agree with going for the headshots. The more you do it the better you get at judging the shot. I try to get as close as I can.
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Re: Roo ammo

Post by Stix » 08 Nov 2018, 8:02 pm

A bunny's head is quite a big target at 100...so my opinion is i dont think you should be shooting roos if you cant hit them in the skull/upper neck part of the head, at what ever range you can/or choose to shoot from.

Die Judicii wrote:
DVC01136.JPG
This one didn't get up to argue or discuss the effectiveness or not.

Just on 220 meter mark.


Hey DJ...curiosity has got the better of me mate...i cant help but ask...what is the paper towel for mate...?...(did you get THAT excited about that shot...? :lol: :thumbsup: )
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Re: Roo ammo

Post by Die Judicii » 09 Nov 2018, 5:28 pm

DVC01235.JPG
DVC01235.JPG (424.51 KiB) Viewed 1401 times
I know,,,,,,,, I've posted this previously, but this time for those that haven't seen it before,,,,,

It was laying in a hollow sunning itself and only the crown of the head and the ears were visible.
I had lain waiting for quite a while for him to move, but gave up and took the shot.
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Re: Roo ammo

Post by Die Judicii » 09 Nov 2018, 5:36 pm

Stix wrote:
Hey DJ...curiosity has got the better of me mate...i cant help but ask...what is the paper towel for mate...?...(did you get THAT excited about that shot...? :lol: :thumbsup: )


Yeah Mate,,,,, Magazines like cleaner photos,,,,, :lol: Ya gotta think of the children.
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Re: Roo ammo

Post by TassieTiger » 09 Nov 2018, 7:46 pm

HereSkip wrote:
Blr243 wrote:I use v max between the front legs Violent expansion very little chance of any part of the projectile continuing on to hit an unseen cow laying down in the grass I never shoot for the head It means more misses and more misses mean more chance of shooting something else behind the roo


sounds like you couldnt hit water if you fell off a boat


Im packing up the boat right now to take kids fishing in the morning, tripped on the farkin bow rope whilst checking some gauges and I did fall out of the bloody boat - hit the grass...just saying
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Re: Roo ammo

Post by madang55 » 27 Nov 2018, 10:13 pm

Head-shooting is a risk unless you are within 100m. If its further away, you will get another chance later. Just read the code of conduct. Get caught doing anything outside the code and you and whoever is with you at the time lose everything. I like my equipment exactly where it is, tucked into bed in my possession. NOT in a furnace.
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Re: Roo ammo

Post by Peter988 » 28 Nov 2018, 10:28 am

A related question. I believe the regulations also outlaw the use of “frangible” projectiles. I am struggling to find exactly which manufacturers class the projectiles as that. For example are hollow point considered frangible? I am currently loading ballistic tip for some planned culling in a Qld exclusion zone but some think these might also be frangible. Any thoughts on determining this a bit more effectively?
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Re: Roo ammo

Post by Gaznazdiak » 28 Nov 2018, 10:34 am

I could be wrong, someone will slap me if I am, but I believe a frangible projectile is one made from a metallic powder in some form of matrix such as resin or hard wax.

In which case the ballistic tips would not be in that category

https://www.luckygunner.com/lounge/frangible-ammo/
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Re: Roo ammo

Post by Rod_outbak » 28 Nov 2018, 11:04 am

Frangible projectiles (I thought) are supposed to disintegrate on impact, rather than ricochet.

Before he vanished into thin air, the bloke at B&T Energetics was making a 50gn projectile('VarmintR'), which he said was sudden death on small game like rabbits. He sent me a box of them, after we'd had some grief with my initial order going missing.

His description of them was that they were a recycled product, and highly frangible.
They look to be a brass alloy, and I think they mostly vaporise on impact.

To date, I've not actually tried them out to see what they are like. However, I'd be concerned that they might explode on a roo's head without killing the poor animal. Might be awesome on rabbits, though.
I dont believe the Vmax , Ballistic Tip, or any of the Soft-Point projectiles are considered to be 'frangible'.
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