Do i need a seperate safe

[Farmerpete]

So heres my problem im the proud owner of a cat c licence and have 2 cat c firearms in my safe my wife can only get cat b (only 1 person can hold cat c per buisness) do i need a seperate safe for the cat c guns i initially thought yes but the whole any farm employee capable of owning a licence can have access to the guns under my direction has confused me. do i even need to bother getting her a licence or can i just give her a standing direction to shoot a pig if she sees one

[bladeracer]

So heres my problem im the proud owner of a cat c licence and have 2 cat c firearms in my safe my wife can only get cat b (only 1 person can hold cat c per buisness) do i need a seperate safe for the cat c guns i initially thought yes but the whole any farm employee capable of owning a licence can have access to the guns under my direction has confused me. do i even need to bother getting her a licence or can i just give her a standing direction to shoot a pig if she sees one

Assuming you only have CatC firearms, I would think a CatC-compliant safe would be fine, assuming the only other people with access are allowed access. If you have CatA/B firearms as well, and you have people at the property that are not allowed access to CatC then I would expect you would need a second safe for those.
Because of the legal ramifications, I'd suggest emailing Firearms and getting a response in writing, just in case.
Also clarify whether you have to be within a certain distance, or even in attendance at the property at the time, and the unlicenced person's access to the ammunition..

[brett1868]

You cannot allow your wife access to the Cat C firearms. If you are forced to share a safe then I'd be explaining the situation to the authorites and see what they recommend. It may just be a matter of securing the Cat C in the safe with a bike chain / trigger to prevent her removing them and make sure she doesn't know where the keys are. Some secrets in a marriage are mandatory, location of safe keys is one of them as my wife has no idea where I keep the keys and I'll never tell her.

[marksman]

You cannot allow your wife access to the Cat C firearms. If you are forced to share a safe then I'd be explaining the situation to the authorites and see what they recommend. It may just be a matter of securing the Cat C in the safe with a bike chain / trigger to prevent her removing them and make sure she doesn't know where the keys are. Some secrets in a marriage are mandatory, location of safe keys is one of them as my wife has no idea where I keep the keys and I'll never tell her.

+1

[Oldbloke]

Some secrets in a marriage are mandatory, location of safe keys is one of them as my wife has no idea where I keep the keys and I'll never tell her.

Agree, the mrs might make use of them when I’m asleep. Buuuuuttttttt stats tell us knives and scissors are more likely weapons of choice by a woman. So maybe I should just encourage her to get a firearms license.

[Farmerpete]

From the act
54 Possession or use of weapon by unlicensed person in
primary production sometimes allowed
(1) In this section—
primary producer means a person who—
(a) has a licence; and
(b) usually carries out primary production on land (the
primary producer’s land), even if only as an agent or
employee of another person.
weapon means a weapon that a primary producer possesses
under the authority of a licence.
(2) A person who is an agent, employee or member of the
immediate family of the primary producer may possess or use
a weapon on the primary producer’s land, even if the person
does not hold a licence for that category of weapon, if the
person—
(a) assists the primary producer with primary production on
the land; and
(b) is eligible to obtain a licence to possess a weapon; and
(c) only uses the weapon with the express consent of the
primary producer; and
(d) only uses the weapon in connection with carrying out
primary production on the land.

This section is why i am now confused it would appear being paid by the farm makes her able to shoot on the farm

[trekin]

From the act
54 Possession or use of weapon by unlicensed person in
primary production sometimes allowed
(1) In this section—
primary producer means a person who—
(a) has a licence; and
(b) usually carries out primary production on land (the
primary producer’s land), even if only as an agent or
employee of another person.
weapon means a weapon that a primary producer possesses
under the authority of a licence.
(2) A person who is an agent, employee or member of the
immediate family of the primary producer may possess or use
a weapon on the primary producer’s land, even if the person
does not hold a licence for that category of weapon, if the
person—
(a) assists the primary producer with primary production on
the land; and
(b) is eligible to obtain a licence to possess a weapon; and
(c) only uses the weapon with the express consent of the
primary producer; and
(d) only uses the weapon in connection with carrying out
primary production on the land.

This section is why i am now confused it would appear being paid by the farm makes her able to shoot on the farm

As would being a "member of the immediate family".
As to your original question, is your wife getting a primary producers licence, or a RE/SC (recreational/sport) licence?, Do you have an RE/SC licence? If you and maybe your wife, in the future, have both PP and RE/SC licences, then you are better off having two safes to keeps firearms registered to either licence seperate, because your unlicenced employees or those granted express consent still can not have excess to yours and your wifes personel firearms.

[straightshooter]

Dot your i's and cross your t's.
Just keep in mind who has unlimited resources (compared to you) in the event that a prosecution ever eventuates.

[pomemax]

my wife can only get cat b (only 1 person can hold cat c per business)
this is how they ensure only the cat C can use the cat c
A person who is an agent, employee or member of the
immediate family of the primary producer may possess or use
a weapon on the primary producer’s land, even if the person
does not hold a licence for that category of weapon, if the
person—
(a) assists the primary producer with primary production on
the land; and
(b) is eligible to obtain a licence to possess a weapon; and
She is not eligible to get Cat c only you are if she had no licence she could use a cat A/B under your direction because she could get the licence.
Personally I would ring/ emailing Firearms get a ruling from them or just buy another safe for A/B and make your Mrs get her A/B

[Member-Deleted]

I looked at this very situation awhile back up here in Qld and I was told even thought others on the farm can use the guns registered to the farm but
they cannot have access to the safe, the rifle or what ever has to be given to them by the registered farm owner for them to carry out the shooting required
And private rifles can be used providing the worker has a licence for that category A, B or C as like all civilians but the gun registered to the farm can be
used without a licence providing you have permission from the farm owner/manager and are a family member or a worker and can only be used for work related
shooting whatever that may be ( culling, injured animals etc )
They wouldn't elaborate on if a mate came up and wanted to have a shot from the farm registered rifle but the private one they could with supervision

Long story short farm registered guns can't leave the property , nobody can have access to the safe only the farm owner who then gives them to the workers
with permission
Guns privately registered can be given by the owner to other people to use elsewhere providing the other person has a licence for that category
although someone can use the private gun without a licence providing they are being supervised by a licenced person and the licence must cover that caliber
That's about all I could find out and not sure how accurate it is so hope it helps

[bladeracer]

my wife can only get cat b (only 1 person can hold cat c per business)
this is how they ensure only the cat C can use the cat c
A person who is an agent, employee or member of the
immediate family of the primary producer may possess or use
a weapon on the primary producer’s land, even if the person
does not hold a licence for that category of weapon, if the
person—
(a) assists the primary producer with primary production on
the land; and
(b) is eligible to obtain a licence to possess a weapon; and
She is not eligible to get Cat c only you are if she had no licence she could use a cat A/B under your direction because she could get the licence.
Personally I would ring/ emailing Firearms get a ruling from them or just buy another safe for A/B and make your Mrs get her A/B

It says "eligible to obtain a licence to possess a weapon", nothing about the category so I'm guessing anybody that could get a CatA licence is considered okay.

[RoginaJack]

I was under the impression that Cat. C firearms had to be stored in a Approved Cat C. Safe. Does your current safe meet Cat. C regulations?

Personally, I'd store the Cat C firearms separately in an approved Cat C safe.

[bladeracer]

I was under the impression that Cat. C firearms had to be stored in a Approved Cat C. Safe. Does your current safe meet Cat. C regulations?

Personally, I'd store the Cat C firearms separately in an approved Cat C safe.

His question is, can he store his other CatA/B firearms in his CatC safe.

[RoginaJack]

Hi Bladeracer,

Of course HIS A&B firearms can be stored in a Cat C safe with HIS Cat C firearms ,BUT who has access to the safe? I feel that is the most important part. My interpretation is only the person who holds the Cat C licence. A&B licence does not permit access to Cat C. weapons.
Who can use a Cat C firearm; only a person with said licence or person that is eligible to obtain a licence to possess a weapon. If a person is not eligible to obtain a Cat C licence, can't possess or use the weapon..
It's a very sticky situation that can be interpreted several ways.

[bladeracer]

Hi Bladeracer,

Of course HIS A&B firearms can be stored in a Cat C safe with HIS Cat C firearms ,BUT who has access to the safe? I feel that is the most important part. My interpretation is only the person who holds the Cat C licence. A&B licence does not permit access to Cat C. weapons.
Who can use a Cat C firearm; only a person with said licence or person that is eligible to obtain a licence to possess a weapon. If a person is not eligible to obtain a Cat C licence, can't possess or use the weapon..
It's a very sticky situation that can be interpreted several ways.

I don't read it that way. It doesn't say that a person has to qualify for CatC, only that if they can qualify for a weapon licence then they can use the CatC under direction of the licence holder. But only the licence holder should be able to access the CatC firearms so a second safe would be the best way to ensure that.

I agree, it would only take an anti-gun Police officer and you could be spending lots of money on lawyers to get your licence back.
More safes is always better than one safe

[Member-Deleted]

Yep ! bladeracer that's what i'd be doing then it's black and white no grey areas good chance of no further problems that way

[Farmerpete]

Hi guys thanks for the input if what's said is true and my wife cant have access to the safe then what is even the point of the exception if i have to come home to get the gun and ammo then i may aswell go shooting i will email wlq for clarity and post the response

[Member-Deleted]

G'day Farmerpete mate it's as accurate as It can be I suppose as it was given to me by our local sergeant he took a little time to get back to
me and that was his answer
I would also like to see the response they give you when you contact them
Cheers

[RoginaJack]

No unlicensed person can access the Safe. If the police front up for a inspection and an unlicensed person opens the safe, kiss all the firearms on the property, along with licences goodbye.

My understanding is that firearms used for work in primary production can only be used on the said farm/property, must be signed out, used for specified job/work and signed back in by the licence holder. The licence holder must be present.

It's opened to too many interpretations. For example - "Possession or use of weapon by unlicensed person in primary production sometimes allowed". OK define "sometimes allowed".

[Farmerpete]

Just got a reply from weapons licencing it reads as follows
RE: Other - Clarification over section 54 primary producer
P

Weapons Licensing[ADMIN] <[email protected]>



Thank you for your Inquiry. Section 54 spells out that an unlicensed person may use a firearm in certain circumstances, by the very nature of the Possession and Use, it would be up to the Primary Producer/Licensee to determine if and when an employee or immediate family member used the firearm or if in fact had access to the safe. It doesn’t state that the Primary Producer has to be in immediate control of the family member and it would be inferred that once instructed appropriately that the Family member would be able to obtain the weapon and conduct the occupational duties unaccompanied, to the point should the Primary Producer not even be on the property, eg holidays or business away.



I hope this information is of assistance, should you need further clarification please call me on the below stated number.

In any event you should seek your own Independent Legal advice regarding the matters raised.



54 Possession or use of weapon by unlicensed person in primary production sometimes allowed

(1) In this section—

primary producer means a person who—

(a) has a licence; and

(b) usually carries out primary production on land (the primary producer’s land), even if only as an agent or employee of another person.

weapon means a weapon that a primary producer possesses under the authority of a licence.



(2) A person who is an agent, employee or member of the immediate family of the primary producer may possess or use a weapon on the primary producer’s land, even if the person does not hold a licence for that category of weapon, if the person—

(a) assists the primary producer with primary production on the land; and

(b) is eligible to obtain a licence to possess a weapon; and

(c) only uses the weapon with the express consent of the primary producer; and

(d) only uses the weapon in connection with carrying out primary production on the land.



Kind Regards

[ponkychonk]

so basically what they are saying is that once you have taught your wife about how to use it etc then its fine that she has access to the safe

[Zappa]

I'm finding it hard to understand the logic why the law needs to restrict the number of cat c licences they issue for a business , Given they can restrict the amount of firearms per business, per property.

I see it like giving everyone in the business the ability to know how to drive a forklift , yet only allow one or two forklifts permissible to fulfill requirements.

[Oldbloke]

so basically what they are saying is that once you have taught your wife about how to use it etc then its fine that she has access to the safe

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