7.62x39 vs 300AAC vs 6.5 Grendel

[JimTom]

G'day Gents

Have been doing a little research on the pro's and cons of the above mentioned cartridges for use as a close range (under 100M) pig buster. Looking at a Ruger American Ranch or Similar. Yes I know that rifle doesn't come in Grendel.

I think either one would be suitable, however I thought I would call on the brains trust to chuck their thoughts and opinions into the ring.

Thanks for your time in advance fellas, sincerely appreciated.

[JimTom]

I did do a search before asking however nothing recent on this forum. A few people talking down the 300AAC as a fad. Be interested in people's thoughts, regardless of whether you own a rifle in these chamberings or not.

[wrenchman]

i would go 7.62x39 ammo is cheeper to get and will do what you want the 300 and the 7.62x39 are real close all the guys that have 6.5 are hand loaders

[JimTom]

i would go 7.62x39 ammo is cheeper to get and will do what you want the 300 and the 7.62x39 are real close all the guys that have 6.5 are hand loaders

Not to worried about the availability of factory ammo as I will hand load for which ever I get mate.

[SCJ429]

The 762 x 39 biggest downside is that it uses 311 projectiles. If you chambered a 308 barrel in it you would have a winner.

The Grendel is very accurate also, you could load it to shoot subsonic if you wanted to.

The 300 has a very narrow focus but if that is what floats your boat.....

[JimTom]

The 762 x 39 biggest downside is that it uses 311 projectiles. If you chambered a 308 barrel in it you would have a winner.

The Grendel is very accurate also, you could load it to shoot subsonic if you wanted to.

The 300 has a very narrow focus but if that is what floats your boat.....

Yeah mate agree about the .311 projectiles and the 7.62x39. Pity they aren't .308. Would be a winner there. That as I see it is the only advantage the 300AAC has over the 7.62x39.

Plus I have a surplus of .308 130gn projectiles that'd like to use. Still that's no reason to buy a rifle in that calibre.

[wanneroo]

The 762 x 39 biggest downside is that it uses 311 projectiles. If you chambered a 308 barrel in it you would have a winner.

The Grendel is very accurate also, you could load it to shoot subsonic if you wanted to.

The 300 has a very narrow focus but if that is what floats your boat.....

Yeah mate agree about the .311 projectiles and the 7.62x39. Pity they aren't .308. Would be a winner there. That as I see it is the only advantage the 300AAC has over the 7.62x39.

Plus I have a surplus of .308 130gn projectiles that'd like to use. Still that's no reason to buy a rifle in that calibre.

One reason I shoot 300 BO is the easy compatibility with .308 projectiles. There is also a much larger selection of .308 projectiles to pick from on the market as well. I use some of the same bullets for 7.62 NATO/308 Win as I do 300 BO. A 150g FMJ Hornady bullet is a cheap plinking/target bullet I use for both cartridges.

[wanneroo]

I did do a search before asking however nothing recent on this forum. A few people talking down the 300AAC as a fad. Be interested in people's thoughts, regardless of whether you own a rifle in these chamberings or not.

I thought at one point 300 BO would be a fad, but every year here in the USA more and more rifles come to market, more ammo comes to market, more powders, 300 BO specific bullets are being made such as expanding subsonic bullets, etc.

Of course what drives it is the AR-15 type rifles. The 300 BO has the rear end of a .223/5.56, so bolts and magazines are the same, easy compatibility with existing products out there.

[JimTom]

It’s definitely growing on me.

[in2anity]

Even if the BO becomes truly regarded as a “fad”, doesn’t that mainly effect the cost of factory ammo? Handloading for the BO will basically exclude you from this issue especially considering compatibility with 30cal and front-locking lugs. And if you load it down like it’s kinda supposed to be used, barrel life should be long..

[JimTom]

Even if the BO becomes truly regarded as a “fad”, doesn’t that mainly effect the cost of factory ammo? Handloading for the BO will basically exclude you from this issue especially considering compatibility with 30cal and front-locking lugs. And if you load it down like it’s kinda supposed to be used, barrel life should be long..

This is true mate

[in2anity]

If we were in some eastern block country and one could go knock on the door of the local warlord to buy a pallet of ak ammo, the 7.62x39 would be a no brainer. Alas this is not the case down here in Oz. As others have noted .311 ammo (and projectiles) is not exactly common around these parts. Hence the decision is in my eyes between the BO and Grendel. Generally I feel the Grendel will outshoot the BO, especially over those longer distances - the Grendel is basically a superior cartridge. Nevertheless the BO could give you a deeper experience given the sheer variety of consumables and information out there regarding handloading 30cals. And personally I like that side of shooting - unraveling the enigma that is your rifle...

Still, all things said, if you want a gun that can benchrest a hair off a fleas back, I’d be more focused on specific actions and barrels (rather than the higher level discussion of caliber A vs caliber B)

[JimTom]

No mate not after that kind of accuracy mate. My 6.5Creedmoor is my accurate longer range hitter. My 308 pretty good also.
Considering I have a Creedmoor I have been leaning away from the Grendel, and more towards the Blackout. Only want it for <100M.

[in2anity]

No mate not after that kind of accuracy mate. My 6.5Creedmoor is my accurate longer range hitter. My 308 pretty good also.
Considering I have a Creedmoor I have been leaning away from the Grendel, and more towards the Blackout. Only want it for <100M.

The BO is a cool concept, I have nearly purchased one on several occasions in the past... I shoot a lot of 30cal reduced loads across a few different rifles, and powder-positioning is indeed a real issue/variable in those larger cases. The BO mitigates this through the smaller case size. And I think a fine, fast-burning powder like AR2205 could work well in the smaller BO case. I shoot a 32H&R magnum rifle, and it's basically like a mini 30cal - it's pet load is a full case of 2205 under basically a 30cal pill (well 32cal technically but same-same). It shoots like absolute stink out to 100m, and it's only a humble rear-locking lever gun!

BTW if you do end up choosing the BO - I recommend trying the Berry's 150gr 30-30 plated bullets - they are significantly cheaper than jacketed, and considering the BO is basically designed to shoot under 2000fps, I think they would be almost perfect for the BO specs.

[in2anity]

I shot this 50m 8-shot experimental group in my 308 bolt gun recently; a full case of Trail Boss under the aforementioned Berry's bullet:

14.5gr Trail Boss under Berry's 150gr 30-30 (.308) @50m

308w_TB.jpg (536.54 KiB) Viewed 11816 times

The one shot that's a bit low was me pulling the trigger at the wrong time - that's just ludicrous accuracy IMO given how little it cost to cook

Getting back to your BO requirements - you should try and get a heavier barrelled carbine if possible - perhaps the Ruger Ranch?

[bigrich]

after looking at some ballistics on these rounds, it seems like their a bolt action in the 30-30 niche . not a critisism , just a observation . the 6.5 would have superior accuracy at distance i would imagine i have considered a ruger bolt gun in 44 mag as a 100 yard rifle, but the jury's still out on that for me the 300 BO does sound interesting

[JimTom]

I shot this 50m 8-shot experimental group in my 308 bolt gun recently; a full case of Trail Boss under the aforementioned Berry's bullet:

308w_TB.jpg

The one shot that's a bit low was me pulling the trigger at the wrong time - that's just ludicrous accuracy IMO given how little it cost to cook

Getting back to your BO requirements - you should try and get a heavier barrelled carbine if possible - perhaps the Ruger Ranch?

Nice shooting mate, and I am looking at the Ruger American ranch. Be perfect for what I want it for.

[SCJ429]

Would Trail Boss in your 308 do everything that you were hoping to do with the 300? I think that a 45/70 with Trail Boss is a pretty good alternative to the Blackout.

[JimTom]

Would Trail Boss in your 308 do everything that you were hoping to do with the 300? I think that a 45/70 with Trail Boss is a pretty good alternative to the Blackout.

Yeah I reckon using trailboss or using reduced loads of AR2206H would do what I want.
You are right, I don’t really need it, but where is the fun in that.
Any excuse for a new rifle.

[SCJ429]

What I see missing in your gun safe is a 375, 416 or a 458.

[in2anity]

after looking at some ballistics on these rounds, it seems like their a bolt action in the 30-30 niche . not a critisism , just a observation . the 6.5 would have superior accuracy at distance i would imagine i have considered a ruger bolt gun in 44 mag as a 100 yard rifle, but the jury's still out on that for me the 300 BO does sound interesting

The BO vs 30/30 is the obvious parallel to draw, but the BO should be more accurate (in a bolt gun that is). I'm speculating here (never owned a BO) but the BO (vs 30/30) should also be more suited to the handloader; the smaller case means you can operate in the faster powder region, equating to better economy than the mid-burns. The front locking lugs of the bolt gun (vs the 30/30's rear locking lugs) should equate to less case stretch and longer brass life, not to mention I'm guessing the brass will be thicker on the modern BO cartridge compared to the 30/30 (looking at the pressure specs).

[JimTom]

What I see missing in your gun safe is a 375, 416 or a 458.

Haha yeah well I had entertained the idea of something larger but to be honest mate I’d have nothing to shoot with it. Bit of an overkill for the feral pig population.

[in2anity]

I think that a 45/70 with Trail Boss is a pretty good alternative to the Blackout.

IMO I don't think so - the 45/70 will consume a lot more Trail Boss than the BO, and probably be less accurate. Not to mention the 45/70 will shoot more rainbow and consume more lead.

[in2anity]

reduced loads of AR2206H would do what I want.
You are right, I don’t really need it, but where is the fun in that.
Any excuse for a new rifle.

Part cases of 2206H can be annoyingly position sensitive - alright for target shooting but it's another variable you have to consider.

[SCJ429]

I think that a 45/70 with Trail Boss is a pretty good alternative to the Blackout.

IMO I don't think so - the 45/70 will consume a lot more Trail Boss than the BO, and probably be less accurate. Not to mention the 45/70 will shoot more rainbow and consume more lead.

I don't think that they use trail boss in the Blackout when shooting heavy 200 plus projectiles. My thinking was that a 45/70 would be a good fun lead slinger at subsonic speeds for short range work. I don't expect people buy a blackout because it shoots bug holes. Of course a 400 grain bullet travelling at 1000 fps isn't going to be flat shooting but the Blackout is no 257 Weatherby in this regard.

The 45/70 is just a left field suggestion, I think out of all of your options you cannot go wrong. They all will be a lot of fun.

[wanneroo]

I know there are subsonic 308 loads you can do, I've shot subsonic 308 in a bolt gun with suppressor and it's pretty damn quiet.

However, one advantage for those with bolt guns is 300 BO is a 223 sized action, so if you don't want to carry the extra weight of a 308, this is where it can come into play. I have AR semi auto rifles in both and carrying around the 308 AR rifle is a totally different proposition to the 300 BO AR. 300 BO is light and handy, 308 is not.

[bigrich]

after looking at some ballistics on these rounds, it seems like their a bolt action in the 30-30 niche . not a critisism , just a observation . the 6.5 would have superior accuracy at distance i would imagine i have considered a ruger bolt gun in 44 mag as a 100 yard rifle, but the jury's still out on that for me the 300 BO does sound interesting

The BO vs 30/30 is the obvious parallel to draw, but the BO should be more accurate (in a bolt gun that is). I'm speculating here (never owned a BO) but the BO (vs 30/30) should also be more suited to the handloader; the smaller case means you can operate in the faster powder region, equating to better economy than the mid-burns. The front locking lugs of the bolt gun (vs the 30/30's rear locking lugs) should equate to less case stretch and longer brass life, not to mention I'm guessing the brass will be thicker on the modern BO cartridge compared to the 30/30 (looking at the pressure specs).

Absolutely a bolt gun would be more accurate, as well as spritzer bullets in a bolt help accuracy. The parallels I’m referring to are the similarities in power and caliber in a lightweight Carbine type rifle for 100 - 150 yard type shooting. Just a observation

[in2anity]

I know there are subsonic 308 loads you can do, I've shot subsonic 308 in a bolt gun with suppressor and it's pretty damn quiet.

However, one advantage for those with bolt guns is 300 BO is a 223 sized action, so if you don't want to carry the extra weight of a 308, this is where it can come into play. I have AR semi auto rifles in both and carrying around the 308 AR rifle is a totally different proposition to the 300 BO AR. 300 BO is light and handy, 308 is not.

Sadly ARs aren't really a think down here.

[wanneroo]

I know there are subsonic 308 loads you can do, I've shot subsonic 308 in a bolt gun with suppressor and it's pretty damn quiet.

However, one advantage for those with bolt guns is 300 BO is a 223 sized action, so if you don't want to carry the extra weight of a 308, this is where it can come into play. I have AR semi auto rifles in both and carrying around the 308 AR rifle is a totally different proposition to the 300 BO AR. 300 BO is light and handy, 308 is not.

Sadly ARs aren't really a think down here.

I know, unfortunate for you all, but whether a bolt or semi auto, there will be a weight difference. Again it all depends what you want.

Someone mentioned 30-30 up above. I shot one last weekend and 300 BO does the same thing in a smaller package.

[JimTom]

The Ruger American Ranch in 300AAC would suit my purpose more than a 30/30 lever. Short light and fairly cheap to purchase.