New shooter - new 22 - noob questions!

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New shooter - new 22 - noob questions!

Post by Nic » 11 Jan 2019, 10:25 am

Hi all,

I am new to the forum and this is my first post/thread. I've been reading threads on here for the last week or so and it seems a great community!

I've had a license for a while, but only have a 12g shotty (Browning Citori I got when I was about 16). I've used that mainly for clays, but not for quite a while.
Myself and my mate are now spurring each other on to get in to rifle shooting and hunting together. The problem is we're both noobs!

After some reading on here and other places I ended up putting a Cogswell and Harrison 22lr on layby yesterday. It seems a nice gun, and I figured that a 22lr was a good place to start!
My mate was lucky enough to get a tikka 223 second hand which seemed good value. Both are scoped.

We're now just in the process of scoping out some contacts for land to shoot on, as well as crown land. We're based around the Ballarat region.

The questions I now have are:
1) has anyone here got a C&H 22lr? If so, any recommended ammo? Ditto for the tikka 223?

2) We're just wanting to start with shooting rabbits and foxes (and I'd like to shoot targets). Eventually we'd love to get in to bigger stuff - but time and effort will play a part. Regardless, what would you see as a 'complete' set/collection of guns/calibres which would prep us for a wide variety of shooting? 12g + 22lr + 223 + 308?

3) Are there any good rifle Ranges around? I've had the Anakie one suggested as being decent. Many regional ones we can't do because Sundays are out for us. There's a Springvale one which let's ya shoot 22s I think but that's it yes?


Any help, advice, suggestions regarding any of this and more would be great.
Nic
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Re: New shooter - new 22 - noob questions!

Post by Daddybang » 11 Jan 2019, 4:03 pm

Double post :drinks:
Last edited by Daddybang on 11 Jan 2019, 4:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: New shooter - new 22 - noob questions!

Post by Daddybang » 11 Jan 2019, 4:04 pm

Gday nic :welcome: aboard :drinks:
A .22 and 223 are good to start with then it's really down to what you are going to be doing. Apparently min of 270 for deer in vic :unknown: so something around that chambering then a 30 cal of some description then a forty cal of some sort then......... I reckon ya see where its goin.
:lol: :lol: :drinks:
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Re: New shooter - new 22 - noob questions!

Post by Crazy » 11 Jan 2019, 4:39 pm

So far its seems that you and your mate have got the right idea in terms of firearms, with ammo for your 22. i would try and find which ammo your gun likes both sub and super-sonic ammo and get a brand for both sub and super that it likes. My rifle really only likes CCI ammo with some exemptions. Ranges i mainly go to is the SSAA range in little river, the SSAA range in Spring vale or on the odd chance i might go down to Bendigo when their field and game clay targets is on. With the Spring vale range you can only shoot 22. rim fire nothing higher and the little river range allows you to shoot anything .50BMG and under. If your wanting to go to NSW or SA and hunt pigs you can make do with the .223 with heavier bullets and correct shot placement but if your wanting to hunt deer in Vic legally you have to have a round no smaller then .270 but if you want to use the shotgun on deer for what ever reason slugs have to be used. In my opinion (so take it as you wish) the perfect caliber set up for Australia would be a 22lr, .223, .308 and 12ga. with this selection it allows you to take anything from duck and rabbits to deer. Hopefully this has given you some ideas and food for thought. Cheers. :drinks:
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Re: New shooter - new 22 - noob questions!

Post by bladeracer » 11 Jan 2019, 4:46 pm

Nic wrote:Regardless, what would you see as a 'complete' set/collection of guns/calibres which would prep us for a wide variety of shooting? 12g + 22lr + 223 + 308?


Hi Nic :-)
.22LR, .223, 7mm-08, .300WinMag, .44 Magnum lever-action, and a double 12.ga. would cover every situation, but it's more fun to have lots of firearms ;-)
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Re: New shooter - new 22 - noob questions!

Post by cracker » 11 Jan 2019, 8:52 pm

bladeracer wrote:
Nic wrote:Regardless, what would you see as a 'complete' set/collection of guns/calibres which would prep us for a wide variety of shooting? 12g + 22lr + 223 + 308?


Hi Nic :-)
.22LR, .223, 7mm-08, .300WinMag, .44 Magnum lever-action, and a double 12.ga. would cover every situation, but it's more fun to have lots of firearms ;-)


.505 Gibbs for rabbits and work your way up.
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Re: New shooter - new 22 - noob questions!

Post by Bruiser64 » 11 Jan 2019, 9:25 pm

22, 223, 308 and your shotgun will cover all shooting you are likely to do. Having said that I own a 17hmr, 22, 22 magnum, .204, .243 and a shotgun. I use all of them, as they each serve a different need on a range of properties I shoot on. More firearms is not a bad thing. They are like golf clubs. Each has a different job to do.
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Re: New shooter - new 22 - noob questions!

Post by Stix » 11 Jan 2019, 9:51 pm

Bruiser64 wrote:22, 223, 308 and your shotgun will cover all shooting you are likely to do. Having said that I own a 17hmr, 22, 22 magnum, .204, .243 and a shotgun. I use all of them, as they each serve a different need on a range of properties I shoot on. More firearms is not a bad thing. They are like golf clubs. Each has a different job to do.


And just to add to this if you dont mind...

...sometines you need 3 sand wedges, 2 One wood's, & five Seven iron's...& then you may need to also have those same clubs in a synthetic version as well...& then also in a bull barrel version too...

Be very careful...!!! 8-)
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Re: New shooter - new 22 - noob questions!

Post by Bruiser64 » 12 Jan 2019, 8:39 am

Stix wrote:
Bruiser64 wrote:22, 223, 308 and your shotgun will cover all shooting you are likely to do. Having said that I own a 17hmr, 22, 22 magnum, .204, .243 and a shotgun. I use all of them, as they each serve a different need on a range of properties I shoot on. More firearms is not a bad thing. They are like golf clubs. Each has a different job to do.


And just to add to this if you dont mind...

...sometines you need 3 sand wedges, 2 One wood's, & five Seven iron's...& then you may need to also have those same clubs in a synthetic version as well...& then also in a bull barrel version too...

Be very careful...!!! 8-)


The fact is you are only allowed to carry 14 clubs though. So each club choice has a cost. I own more than fourteen clubs, but shift them around depending on the nature of the courses l play. Same with shooting. On some properties bunnies are thick on the ground and a 22 or a shotgun are ideal. On others the bunnies are there, but sitting that bit further out so my hmr is the go to rifle. It all depends upon context. Shooting is my main hobby at the moment and I am lucky enough to be able to afford to buy a number Of rifles.
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Re: New shooter - new 22 - noob questions!

Post by bladeracer » 12 Jan 2019, 4:39 pm

Bruiser64 wrote:The fact is you are only allowed to carry 14 clubs though.


Only if you're playing by somebody else's rules. My rules say I can use as many damned clubs as I can fit in the ute :-)
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Re: New shooter - new 22 - noob questions!

Post by cracker » 12 Jan 2019, 6:32 pm

bladeracer wrote:
Bruiser64 wrote:The fact is you are only allowed to carry 14 clubs though.


Only if you're playing by somebody else's rules. My rules say I can use as many damned clubs as I can fit in the ute :-)


theres no real limit but i think at 15 center fire they want you to be able to justify why you need that many.
which im sure most literate people are able to do

good idea to have target shooting and hunting on your a/b license too legally justify reason why you need xyz, just have to play the game !
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Re: New shooter - new 22 - noob questions!

Post by bladeracer » 12 Jan 2019, 7:04 pm

cracker wrote:
bladeracer wrote:
Bruiser64 wrote:The fact is you are only allowed to carry 14 clubs though.


Only if you're playing by somebody else's rules. My rules say I can use as many damned clubs as I can fit in the ute :-)


theres no real limit but i think at 15 center fire they want you to be able to justify why you need that many.
which im sure most literate people are able to do

good idea to have target shooting and hunting on your a/b license too legally justify reason why you need xyz, just have to play the game !


Yep, number sixteen CatB they hold your PtA's and you get a letter.
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Re: New shooter - new 22 - noob questions!

Post by Nic » 12 Jan 2019, 10:47 pm

Crazy wrote:So far its seems that you and your mate have got the right idea in terms of firearms, with ammo for your 22. i would try and find which ammo your gun likes both sub and super-sonic ammo and get a brand for both sub and super that it likes. My rifle really only likes CCI ammo with some exemptions. Ranges i mainly go to is the SSAA range in little river, the SSAA range in Spring vale or on the odd chance i might go down to Bendigo when their field and game clay targets is on. With the Spring vale range you can only shoot 22. rim fire nothing higher and the little river range allows you to shoot anything .50BMG and under. If your wanting to go to NSW or SA and hunt pigs you can make do with the .223 with heavier bullets and correct shot placement but if your wanting to hunt deer in Vic legally you have to have a round no smaller then .270 but if you want to use the shotgun on deer for what ever reason slugs have to be used. In my opinion (so take it as you wish) the perfect caliber set up for Australia would be a 22lr, .223, .308 and 12ga. with this selection it allows you to take anything from duck and rabbits to deer. Hopefully this has given you some ideas and food for thought. Cheers. :drinks:


Hi mate,

Thanks for your response! Very informative. Would you mind explaining the difference/effect of the sub and super sonic ammos? (again, I am super new to rifles).

Good to know there's some decent ranges around! I wouldn't mind checking out the Springvale range on a day off sometimes. Are they OK with newbies? I've heard the Geelong one can be tricky for newbies?

I reckon if I were to go after pigs and larger (one day), I would not trust myself with a 223 to get it done. Although I guess with practice it should be fine. I really like the sound of the 243 calibre as an all rounder - however not being allowed to use it on deer in Vic limits it here :(. I guess though that if travelling to other states to shoot this wouldn't matter so much.
I am not sure how I'd go with recoil so also unsure of the 270... What's it like? My understanding is that 308 kicks less (?) so would this be a better option?

Cheers and thanks again! :)
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Re: New shooter - new 22 - noob questions!

Post by Nic » 12 Jan 2019, 10:49 pm

Bruiser64 wrote:22, 223, 308 and your shotgun will cover all shooting you are likely to do. Having said that I own a 17hmr, 22, 22 magnum, .204, .243 and a shotgun. I use all of them, as they each serve a different need on a range of properties I shoot on. More firearms is not a bad thing. They are like golf clubs. Each has a different job to do.


The golf analogy proved popular in this thread! Haha! It does make a lot of sense. Thanks :)
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Re: New shooter - new 22 - noob questions!

Post by Nic » 12 Jan 2019, 10:51 pm

Daddybang wrote:Gday nic :welcome: aboard :drinks:
A .22 and 223 are good to start with then it's really down to what you are going to be doing. Apparently min of 270 for deer in vic :unknown: so something around that chambering then a 30 cal of some description then a forty cal of some sort then......... I reckon ya see where its goin.
:lol: :lol: :drinks:


Thanks for the welcome! And yes I can see where you're going with that... Not sure how I'd handle 30 cal stuff yet let alone 40+ :O
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Re: New shooter - new 22 - noob questions!

Post by bladeracer » 12 Jan 2019, 10:56 pm

Nic wrote:Thanks for your response! Very informative. Would you mind explaining the difference/effect of the sub and super sonic ammos? (again, I am super new to rifles).

Good to know there's some decent ranges around! I wouldn't mind checking out the Springvale range on a day off sometimes. Are they OK with newbies? I've heard the Geelong one can be tricky for newbies?

I reckon if I were to go after pigs and larger (one day), I would not trust myself with a 223 to get it done. Although I guess with practice it should be fine. I really like the sound of the 243 calibre as an all rounder - however not being allowed to use it on deer in Vic limits it here :(. I guess though that if travelling to other states to shoot this wouldn't matter so much.
I am not sure how I'd go with recoil so also unsure of the 270... What's it like? My understanding is that 308 kicks less (?) so would this be a better option?

Cheers and thanks again! :)


Subsonic is below the sound barrier, about 1080fps is subsonic. Supersonic is above the sound barrier, from 1100fps up past 4500fps. There is a tendency for supersonic bullets to get upset transitioning back down through the sound barrier, so very often you'll find subsonic ammo will be the most accurate in a .22LR, but not always. My Rugers shot best with SK High Velocity, which is now discontinued. Subsonic CCI Standard Velocity is their next preference, which is good as it's also quite cheap. I don't see any need to use a less-accurate high-velocity round in the .22LR. Just find what it shoots most accurately and use that for everything, but concentrate on shot placement regardless.

A .223 with an 8"-twist barrel with shoot up to about 80gn bullets, which should cope with most pigs at close ranges.
You can shoot the smaller deer species with .243 so don't rule it out entirely. Those bigger species are also more work to carry out of the bush ;-)

I'm not a fan of .270Win, I just don't see any reason to be using a long-action rifle these days. Have a look at the 7mm-08.
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Re: New shooter - new 22 - noob questions!

Post by bladeracer » 12 Jan 2019, 11:14 pm

bladeracer wrote:Subsonic is below the sound barrier, about 1080fps is subsonic. Supersonic is above the sound barrier, from 1100fps up past 4500fps. There is a tendency for supersonic bullets to get upset transitioning back down through the sound barrier, so very often you'll find subsonic ammo will be the most accurate in a .22LR, but not always. My Rugers shot best with SK High Velocity, which is now discontinued. Subsonic CCI Standard Velocity is their next preference, which is good as it's also quite cheap. I don't see any need to use a less-accurate high-velocity round in the .22LR. Just find what it shoots most accurately and use that for everything, but concentrate on shot placement regardless.


A little more on the sound barrier. Punching a bullet through the sound barrier causes an "explosion" of sound waves in addition to the explosion of firing the cartridge inside the firearm. If you are a fair distance away from a supersonic gunshot, the sound of the shot might be reasonably quiet, sometimes quiet enough not be noticed right away as a threat. But when that bullet passes you, you are hit by the sound pressure wave being pushed ahead of the bullet, and hear the sonic crack. If it's fairly close it'll be significantly louder than your perception of the fired shot. Sometimes it can be advantageous to remove this additional noise by keeping your loads subsonic. If a subsonic bullet passes you, you hear virtually nothing, and the sound of the shot fired is quieter as well. Obviously the lower velocity also lowers the terminal energy of the bullet, so often you would choose a significantly heavier bullet for subsonic ammunition.

During flight, the bullet is being affected by gravity, drag and changing winds. The quicker you can get the bullet to reach the target, the less time it is being influenced by these outside forces. The less time it is effected by gravity, the flatter the trajectory curve will be, thus making it easier to hit your target at various distances. Likewise for wind.

It also matters at the terminal end of the situation though. Most jacketed hunting bullets require supersonic speeds, usually above about 1600fps, when they hit the target to be able to function, or "expand", as designed. At lower speeds they tend to go straight through making a very narrow wound channel, thus requiring optimal shot placement to be effective, and humane. A supersonic bullet also causes far more damage when it hits flesh, so effective hunting often prefers supersonic velocities. Subsonic hunting bullets are very often soft lead to allow them to deform at low terminal velocities.
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Re: New shooter - new 22 - noob questions!

Post by cracker » 13 Jan 2019, 9:44 pm

bladeracer wrote:
cracker wrote:
bladeracer wrote:
Bruiser64 wrote:The fact is you are only allowed to carry 14 clubs though.


Only if you're playing by somebody else's rules. My rules say I can use as many damned clubs as I can fit in the ute :-)


theres no real limit but i think at 15 center fire they want you to be able to justify why you need that many.
which im sure most literate people are able to do

good idea to have target shooting and hunting on your a/b license too legally justify reason why you need xyz, just have to play the game !


Yep, number sixteen CatB they hold your PtA's and you get a letter.


yeah the letter is just explain why isnt it? think its the same with 3 of the same calibre... like if you had 3 mosin nagants or something
or 3x 308 rifles, its just an explain why, from what i gather if you have a legit reason they will still issue the pta.
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