Scope identification.

[Chappo]

The slazenger 24 I bought recently came with this scope on a field side mount and I can’t find any info on it.
It seems like a nice old moving reticle scope that suits the rifle nicely and the glass is really good, very clear image.
I’ve not heard of this brand before so all I know is it is what’s written on it.
Ace 2.5 x 7 x 31

[straightshooter]

A detailed picture of the script on the side of the turret block may reveal more.

[Chappo]

Thanks SS.
Just a serial number though, can that help?

[straightshooter]

Thanks SS.
Just a serial number though, can that help?

I can see what looks to be a little more than a serial number.
What is the accurately measured tube diameter?

[bladeracer]

Thanks SS.
Just a serial number though, can that help?

I can see what looks to be a little more than a serial number.
What is the accurately measured tube diameter?

Blowing the picture up, it says "2.5X-7X31".
With a 5-digit serial under it.

Looks awesome, and vaguely familiar. I'm sure I've seen those turrets somewhere before.
I hope you manage to identify it.

[Gaznazdiak]

They look familiar to me too Blade, so I just tried a reverse image search but came up empty. Bering Optics make an ACE3 scope but I couldn't find any information on "Ace Scopes"

[bladeracer]

They look familiar to me too Blade, so I just tried a reverse image search but came up empty. Bering Optics make an ACE3 scope but I couldn't find any information on "Ace Scopes"

I'm thinking it's an early US scope but I'll have to do some serious research to find it. I'm tending to think Lyman but can't place why.
Would be worth posting some pictures to some of the scope collecting forums I think.

[Chappo]

What is the accurately measured tube diameter?

It’s a one inch tube (25.4mm)

With a name like ace I wouldn’t have thought European.
American like blade said would be the best guess or Asian or Australian?

I haven’t been able to get it out of the rings to see if there’s any more markings but I’ll try again when I’ve got more time.

[Chappo]

Would be worth posting some pictures to some of the scope collecting forums I think.

Scope collecting forum?
There’s a forum for everything these days!!

[bladeracer]

Would be worth posting some pictures to some of the scope collecting forums I think.

Scope collecting forum?
There’s a forum for everything these days!!

Collecting old scopes is quite big I think, particularly the old US stuff like Weaver, Lyman, Unertl.
Had to go into town to run some PtA's but I'll have a look online now and see if I can find anything.

[Rod_outbak]

From what I can find, it doesnt look to be either Weaver, Lyman, or Unertl.

The 2.5-7x31 is quite unusual for a variable scope. I think I could only track down 3 or maybe 4 that were remotely possible.
The shape of the base of the turrets is another point that seems to make this scope a bit more unusual; most scopes I've looked at dont have this streamlined shape.

My 3 hot contenders:

Supra(Nickel) Vari-Power 2.5-7x (1972-1974) - turrets are nigh identical, although I cant find any info on whether they made a scope with a 31mm objective lens.

United Binocular company; they made a 2.5-10x ("Golden Rifleman") variable, which looks very similar in the turrets and zoom adjust, and had a 31mm objective. Also, they were apparently known for re-badging scopes to suit dealers requirements.

I had a long look at the Weaver V7 & V700 series scopes, as they both came with the option for 2.5-7x, but I dont think the turrets or the objective lenses would be right.

Lyman made a 2-7x, but no info on the objective size, and the turrets are all wrong.

Bisley made a 2.5-7x variable, but again; no info on objective lens size, or indeed anything about the Bisley scope AT ALL.
Clark R. Gardner offered a 'Light' variable scope in 2.5-7x in around 1963, but I have no more info on what it looked like.

I tend to lean towards a re-badged variant of a United Binocular "Golden Rifleman" series, but I havent seen this particular product to be able to place any certainty to this.

Next option is it's of European origin, though the book I'm looking through does show most of the major Euro brands that exported to the USA.
However, this book shows next to NOTHING that was produced for the Australian market, so maybe it's a cheapie brand that was imported direct to Australia from Germany or Japan?


Good luck!

[Bill]

Turrets look to be high quality Japanese

Funny variable but Pecars of that era were like that.

[Wombat]

I think I have a Bisley 2.5-7X Variable on my Savage 340. The Turrets are not like that for what its worth. I'm not near my safe at the moment or I'd take a photo.

[Bazooker]

Rod_outbak may well be onto something with his Light Optical Works reference; LOW produced and continue to produce high quality scopes for many well known brands and others.

From a post on Rimfire Central:-

"a list gathered as highly probably brands which put their name on LOW manufactured scopes:

Bushnell Elite (formerly Bausch & Lomb, source Ken Marsh)
Weaver Classic, Grand Slam, Super Slam, T-series, Rimfire, Tactical (not the new 40/44 series - Philippines, Buckmark??, source Ken Marsh, AzizaVFR)
Vortex Razor (not Crossfire - China, or Diamondback and Viper - Originally Japan, now Philippines - Posts by C. Nelsons & MGT)
Clearidge (RFC post by Owner of Clearidge, Jon)
Nitrex ( C. Nelson RFC forum reported info from Manufacturer)
Huskemaw (Post #13, forum reported info from Manufacturer and Vendor)
Nightforce - Body & Lenses from Japan, LOW, Assembled in USA (source MGT correspondence with Nightforce, Post #10 this thread, also forum post #13 here"

I ended up getting a 6 x 33 "Light" branded scope on an M17 sporter that I bought as a donor, similar construction in some respects to the OP, but the markings are on the top of the rear tube section. I had not heard of that brand of scope so I did a bit of digging, and it turns out that in the 60's I thinks they sold under their own brand.

Here is a link to the 1958 United Binocular catalogue, the OP unit may be earlier than that, I reckon.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/United-Binocul ... 0791493654

Baz

[Rod_outbak]

Another possible brand is Cornell Optics. I know they made a variable scope, but also at least one model with a 31mm objective.
Also; the turrets look very similar(slight difference but very close).

I wondered if Cornell made scopes for other brands?

The adjustments on the windage/elevation strike me as being a lot more high quality than I've seen on most cheap scopes. It makes me again wonder if this is a quality prodcut from Germany or Japan, which has been trying to gain access to an overseas market.

Despite looking quite basic, this scope has turned out to be rather unusual; havent seen another like it, and I must have looked at over 1000 images of vintage scopes so far. Intriguing...

[Chappo]

The adjustments on the windage/elevation strike me as being a lot more high quality than I've seen on most cheap scopes. It makes me again wonder if this is a quality prodcut from Germany or Japan, which has been trying to gain access to an overseas market.

Despite looking quite basic, this scope has turned out to be rather unusual; havent seen another like it, and I must have looked at over 1000 images of vintage scopes so far. Intriguing...

I’m glad this has had a few of you guys interested, I’ll be a bit disappointed when we figure it out!
If it didn’t seem like it was of a higher quality then I wouldn’t have bothered asking but every time I’ve looked through it it’s bugged me.
Thanks heaps for everyone’s insight so far.

[Chappo]

Ok so a bit of wd40 and I got it out of its mount and found a pretty big clue!
The logo looks to be a crossed Z in a circle.
Kind of like the cz logo but it’s still not familiar to me.

[Rod_outbak]

Mate, a close-up of that logo might be handy.

I blew it up, but it gets too grainy to be certain.

Looks like a stylized Z with a small A in front; all inside a circle??

Cheers,

Rod.

[Chappo]

Sorry mate that’s as close a picture I could take in focus but this is what it looks like when I draw it.

[Rod_outbak]

Chappo,

A bit more digging...

Trawling through a forum about manufacturers logos on telescopes, and there was a discussion about the various Japanese ones.

For example:
Optical Company Logos (Japanese)

Badge SOC=Showa Optical Company (Not the same as S.O.C)
Circle T-Towa
Circle Dash (-)-?????
Circle K-Kenko or Koyu (Pre-Vixen)
Diamond Z-Tanzutsu
Diamond SYW-Yamamoto
Circle Upside down Y-Eikow
Circle + (plus)-Shimadzu Seisakusho
Circle W-? Wannabe?
Diamond BOL-??? Bushnell Optical Labs
HOC-Hino Optical Company
Circle V-Vixen
Crown Goto-Goto Optical (why can’t they all be this easy!)
Circle A-Astro Optical
Circle G, backwards G, in a cross-Astro Optical-Older
COC-Carton Optical Company
APL-Apollo Business & Industry-Bought by Koyu, then Vixen.
AvA=Takahashi on Swift
Star on Crescent-Nishimura
KOL-King Optical

And the, Diamond Z-Zanzutsu (sp?)

In amongst all of this, there was a vague mention to the quality of the 'Circle Z' optics.
"Circle Z is better than most anything you can buy today, but IMHO inferior to Royal, Yamamoto, Eikow, etc."
Sadly; no-one thought to mention WHO Circle Z might be(or what the logo looked like).

There was a company called the "Zuiho Optical Co", which seems to have made optics for a number of other major optics manufacturers. I cant seem to find a logo for the company, but I did find an image of a Zuhio rifle scope, and it looks VERY similar to yours, though possibly an earlier version?

I did find a reference that suggests that 'Zuhio Optical Co.' MIGHT be one of the companies that evolved into OLYMPUS, but I'm not certain about whether I've understood that right.
Anyway; take a look at that Zuhio scope in the attached image, and I can see a LOT of similarities to yours. I also found an advert that said that in 1959, Zuhio made a riflescope with a 31mm objective lens, but the advert didnt mention a variable scope in production at that stage.

And finally; the way the 'JAPAN' is stamped on the scope, gives you an idea of what era it was produced in.
If it says 'Made in Japan', then it's a different era to 'Made in Japan OC' (The OC standing for 'Occupied Country') I think the OC designation was required on all exported products from 1945 through to some time in the mid 1950's, and then it was just stamped 'Japan', and then 'Made in japan' from some time in the early 1960's.
I dont have the detail of each of these time periods(or if I've got them right), but you can search for it on the net.

If I was betting money, I would think you have a Zuhio scope that has been re-badged for another company.

I hope this helps.

[Rod_outbak]

Extra Note: It seems that some Mauser rifles use a Circle Z, but it doesnt have the curled over ends on the Z, or the diagonal slash across the middle.

[Chappo]

7954895D-EA22-452B-BD1E-1066CB65FDFA.png (863.33 KiB) Viewed 13055 times

C01DE94D-9485-40D3-8C7D-5F2BD49EFE83.jpeg (1.05 MiB) Viewed 13055 times

Mate I reckon you’re bang on and thank you.
Looked into zuiho a bit this morning (probably read all the same pages you did) and when I take a photo of my scope at the same angle as the one you found it looks pretty identical.
It makes sense to me that if your machinery was set up to print in that location on the side of the turret block then you still would wether it was with your brand or someone else’s or just magnification power.
I think this is either a rebadged Zuiho or at least it’s an Ace scope assembled with Zuiho parts.
It’d be nice to put a date on it but oh well...

I’ve learned a lot about early optics lately and with all your research it will now be a more treasured item.

Mitch@ripley started a thread about forever guns and this to me is a great example of what helps make them.
I am a sucker for secondhand firearms with some kind of story behind them. The battle scars, dents and scratches give a sense of personality to me and knowing even a little bit of history only adds to its sentimental value.

Thanks again mate, can’t wait to see the next picture of a fox in it!

[Rod_outbak]

Chappo,

My pleasure; It was an interesting hunt, and I learned a lot myself about post-war Japanese optics!

[bladeracer]

Chappo,

A bit more digging...

Trawling through a forum about manufacturers logos on telescopes, and there was a discussion about the various Japanese ones.

An outstanding piece of research Rob, just awesome!

[Rod_outbak]

bladeracer,

Many thanks.

Truth be told, I'm trying to avoid bookwork, and so ANYTHING that drags me away from that crap is welcomed with open arms...


Chappo; Found this reference this morning (see attached)

My guess is your scope is made in the 1960's. I say that, because the 1959 lineup of Zuhio scopes doesnt include any variable scopes, which suggests they might have been a later addition.
Note the logo is different, and it makes me wonder if they changed the logo when they absorbed Mejiro into Zuhio??

I've seen a couple of mentions that suggest that Zuhiro were more a trading company than an actual manufacturer in the 1950's, but I think they evolved into being a manufacturer as time went on.


Anyway, I shall now have to bite the bullet, accept my fate, and do rotten stinking bookwork....sigh.

Cheers,

Rod.

[Sergeant Hartman]

Mate it's ok don't worry about it, I am currently two bas statements behind. I know the feeling

[bladeracer]

Truth be told, I'm trying to avoid bookwork, and so ANYTHING that drags me away from that crap is welcomed with open arms...

I've been in the same place this week, having to write another bloody letter to Firearms before they'll approve some PtA's they're sitting on. Hoping to get it done tonight!