Help me to choose best rifle in .223

[TassieTiger]

It appears to be PUERILE that this thread has gone past 22 pages lol

[Bill]

I feel quite Puerile responding to Gaz but when the berries are ripe a Bears gotta feed !

[Islander7]

Hi Bill, I'm glad you had a good laugh. it is believed that laugter prolongs life, so I'm truly glad that there was at least some useful outcome for you from my post Seriously though, I just shared my first impressions after getting my first scope, even if they don't make any sense to you, that's fine, it's the internet, I'm entitled to my impressions and you are entitled to your reaction to it

I disagree however about your comment regarding comparison of fixed-zoom binoculars and variable zoom scope. Both are optics that's made out of glass for very similar purpose. I used to live in a professional photography world for some time and have seen plenty of cases when premium quality zoom lense outperformed optically a budget fixed lense (even good quality one). But I'm not here to argue

By the way, Gaz, no offence taken, it's literally impossible to offend me, be it with the stranger on the internet, or with a mate at the camp fire. I recognise that all people are different and I have zero expectations of others, especially so on the internet. From every conversations in my life I'm absorbing what I find useful to myself and ignoring the rest.

[SCJ429]

Great attitude there, everyone has their own journey. You asked questions and got a range of opinions. You made the decisions that worked for you. I have enjoyed your thread. Cheers.

[marksman]

It appears to be PUERILE that this thread has gone past 22 pages lol

[JimTom]

One day this thread is going to end................


Those who have watches Apocolypse Now will understand the reference.

[bigfellascott]

Hi Bill, I'm glad you had a good laugh. it is believed that laugter prolongs life, so I'm truly glad that there was at least some useful outcome for you from my post Seriously though, I just shared my first impressions after getting my first scope, even if they don't make any sense to you, that's fine, it's the internet, I'm entitled to my impressions and you are entitled to your reaction to it

I disagree however about your comment regarding comparison of fixed-zoom binoculars and variable zoom scope. Both are optics that's made out of glass for very similar purpose. I used to live in a professional photography world for some time and have seen plenty of cases when premium quality zoom lense outperformed optically a budget fixed lense (even good quality one). But I'm not here to argue

By the way, Gaz, no offence taken, it's literally impossible to offend me, be it with the stranger on the internet, or with a mate at the camp fire. I recognise that all people are different and I have zero expectations of others, especially so on the internet. From every conversations in my life I'm absorbing what I find useful to myself and ignoring the rest.

I totally agree and am getting the same way with age!

Re the glass and lack of any real advantage from the more expensive versus the cheaper offerings, it really is puzzling alright when you start comparing both side by side and don't really see any decent difference (there might be slight differences) but just not that big difference one would expect to go with the big difference in price tag.

Maybe out expectations need to be tempered a bit? I will say that some are more pleasing to the eye to look through for longer periods though but being a rifle scope I don't really sit there for hours on end looking through it, it's more a matter of spotting something checking it through the scope and taking the shot soon after if it's warranted.

[Sergeant Hartman]

A thread about a 223 has reached 23 pages..... hahaha

[Gaznazdiak]

I know it's not really my place to jump in as your defender Islander, and that you are no doubt more than capable of defending yourself, but I just don't like bullies and I really dislike cowards.

When someone with whom you have a relationship makes fun of you, it can be a joke.

But when some random nobody on the internet ridicules someone from the safe anonymity of the web for asking a legitimate question or expressing their opinion, that is cowardly, and needs to be called out for what it is.

His throw away assertion that it doesn't matter because "it's only the internet" shows the same callous disregard for others that has caused people to take their own life because of being bullied or ridiculed online.

The thing with the anonymity of the net is, you don't know if the person you're talking to is strong as a bull or hovering on the edge and just putting on an impression of normalcy. Words can and have killed people that are in a bad place psychologically.

Anyway mate, apologies if I overstepped.

[Gaznazdiak]

By the way, Gaz, no offence taken, it's literally impossible to offend me, be it with the stranger on the internet, or with a mate at the camp fire. I recognise that all people are different and I have zero expectations of others, especially so on the internet. From every conversations in my life I'm absorbing what I find useful to myself and ignoring the rest.

I know it's not really my place to jump in as your defender Islander, and that you are no doubt more than capable of defending yourself, but I just don't like bullies and I really dislike cowards.

When someone with whom you have a relationship makes fun of you, it can be a joke.

But when some random nobody on the internet ridicules someone from the safe anonymity of the web for asking a legitimate question or expressing their opinion, that is cowardly, and needs to be called out for what it is.

His throw away assertion that it doesn't matter because "it's only the internet" shows the same callous disregard for others that has caused people to take their own life because of being bullied or ridiculed online.

The thing with the anonymity of the net is, you don't know if the person you're talking to is strong as a bull or hovering on the edge and just putting on an impression of normalcy. Words can and have killed people that are in a bad place psychologically. I lost a great mate to suicide, he was hiding life threatening depression under a happy, joking exterior, then seemingly out of the blue, he was gone. We have never found out what the catalyst was for his decision, but it was enough.

Anyway mate, apologies if I overstepped.

[Member-Deleted]

G'day Islander7 mate after 23 pages have you and if so what have you settled on and what caliber ?
As your post initially was for a 223 in my opinion that is quiet a capable caliber for what you want it for and a good all round caliber period
Sorry if I have asked a question that has been answered but I switched off some time back so hope all goes well with your final decision

[bigfellascott]

G'day Islander7 mate after 23 pages have you and if so what have you settled on and what caliber ?
As your post initially was for a 223 in my opinion that is quiet a capable caliber for what you want it for and a good all round caliber period
Sorry if I have asked a question that has been answered but I switched off some time back so hope all goes well with your final decision

He ended up deciding on the 22 Hornet in the Weihrauch brand.

[Member-Deleted]

Thanks Bigfellascott 22 Hornet hey , had one myself once sorry I sold it had it for many years I actually bough it with a Martini action fitted
to med/heavy barrel , single shot and every bit as accurate as my 22-250 of today even shot the odd bull with it mind you it was only 25yds away
and head shot
It was my saddle rifle and saved my hide a few times
I think Islander7 will be quiet happy with his decision of the 22 hornet as for the brand I know absolutely nothing about it
Thanks mate cheers

[allan]

I think Islander7 will be quiet happy with his decision of the 22 hornet as for the brand I know absolutely nothing about it

Bit of a review here:
http://www.sporting-rifle.com/reviews/hornets-test/

[Member-Deleted]

Thanks for that Allan they look quiet the part and a good little write up as well
Thanks again

[Peter988]

I would prefer the 222 for that bit extra punch.

[Bruiser64]

He ended up deciding on the 22 Hornet in the Weihrauch brand.

An excellent choice. I owned a 22 hornet years ago and it was a really nice calibre. Cheap to reload, accurate, mild to shoot and very effective on bunnies. I never shot a fox with mine, but I would be surprised if it was anything other than good for them.

[Gwion]

Deleted.

[Islander7]

Hi again everyone. After a very long wait and all the red tape I've got my Weihrauch rifle few days ago. Thoroughly cleaned/oiled it and mounted the scope.

Tried to zero it yesterday and found the first issue: After the very first shot the brass shell stuck in the barrell. Got it out by using the cleaning rod, took the rifle back to the garage, cleaned/oiled it again. Fired another round - same issue repeated. And again, and again... Long story short: during all 6 rounds I fired, the brass stuck in barrel and each had to be extracted manually by using cleaning plastic rod.

The bolt works smoothly, unfired rounds cycle smoothly and get extracted with no issues, as intended, only empty brass gets stuck. I measured and compared the empty shell width and unfired round width, the empty brass is ~0.15mm wider. So it looks like the brass getting expanded during shot. The ammo is Remington 45gr. PSP.

What am I doing wrong? Is this the issue with ammo or with rifle?

[Daddybang]

Gday islander
Ya probably have said somewhere in the preceding pages but is this a second hand rifle?
I had a .22 magnum recently doing the same thing to the point the only rounds it would extract were subs. Turned out the chamber was absolutely f@#ked allowing cases to slip the extractor when firing standard velocity rounds. I needed to replace the barrel/ receiver or it could be the bolt itself. If it's a new rifle some of the other members should be able to point ya in the right direction.

[Cooper]

What have you oiled? Bolt? Chamber?. With a problem like that I'd usuall try a different brand of ammo (brass) and see if the problem repeat.

[Islander7]

Hi Daddybang, no, that's brand new, ordered directly from the distributor. So is it clearly the rifle issue then?

[Islander7]

What have you oiled? Bolt? Chamber?. With a problem like that I'd usuall try a different brand of ammo (brass) and see if the problem repeat.

Out of the box bolt didn't operate smoothly. I cleaned and then oiled and then wiped off excess oil: bolt, chamber, bore, pretty much all metal parts, now bolt operates very smoothly. What puzzles me is that unfired ammo cycles correctly with zero issues. Thanks, I will try different ammo today as per your suggestion, however I think my local shop has only 2 available: the above-mentioned remmington and ppu.

[Daddybang]

Try as cooper has suggested different ammo. When you say you've oiled the bolt did you strip it to make sure there's nothing fouling up the inners or just oiled the shroud? Apart from those two things that's my meager gunsmith skills tapped out sorry mate
I'm sure some of the brainstrust will be more helpful

[Oldbloke]

Hi,
0.15 mm is only .006 thou. Doesnt sound like a lot of expansion. Perhaps someone else with more experience can chime in here.

But were the cases showing signs of high pressure?

Also ensure the chamber is dry,,,,,NO oil.

[bladeracer]

What have you oiled? Bolt? Chamber?. With a problem like that I'd usuall try a different brand of ammo (brass) and see if the problem repeat.

Out of the box bolt didn't operate smoothly. I cleaned and then oiled and then wiped off excess oil: bolt, chamber, bore, pretty much all metal parts, now bolt operates very smoothly. What puzzles me is that unfired ammo cycles correctly with zero issues. Thanks, I will try different ammo today as per your suggestion, however I think my local shop has only 2 available: the above-mentioned remmington and ppu.

Don't leave any oil in the chamber, it can dramatically increase bolt thrust if the case can't grip the chamber wall.
The expansion you measured sounds fine for factory ammo - I assume that's at the case head, forward of the extractor groove?
Do the fired cases stick if you chamber them again?
I can only guess that the extractor is not functioning correctly if it's slipping off the rim. The extractor should be virtually able to tear the rim before it slips off. Is there any oil on the extractor perhaps letting it slide off the rim? Have you checked for a burr on the extractor?

[bigrich]

I’ve had weihrauch rimfires , and they seemed to have tight chambers and didn’t like some American ammo. If there’s oil in the chamber that wouldn’t be helping . My weihrauch’s did chamber the problem ammo after a hundred rounds or so had been run through them

[Islander7]

Thanks all. I've listened to your advice, wiped clean the chamber again and got another ammo to try (PPU). With new ammo the brass extracted correctly in all 10 shots. Very happy now didn't have time to zero precisely though as it got dark. Will do tomorrow. Thanks again for everything

[bigrich]

If you can find some islander, Winchester 46 gn hollow points shoot very well in the hornet rifles I have owned. Which is unusual cause all other Winchester ammunition I’ve ever had shoots like cr@p. Rem hp’s were reasonably accurate as well for me . If you get into hand loading the hornet can be very accurate, cheers

[straightshooter]

Hi,
0.15 mm is only .006 thou. Doesnt sound like a lot of expansion. Perhaps someone else with more experience can chime in here.

But were the cases showing signs of high pressure?

Also ensure the chamber is dry,,,,,NO oil.

Depending on where and how the measurement was taken that amount of expansion could be massive!
If measured at the solid web with an accurate micrometer then there is evidence of a dangerous pressure problem. In that case I would say stop what you are doing and visit a competent gunsmith.
A picture with indication where you are measuring would help to clarify.
An oily chamber allows the case to back out upon firing and greatly increase bolt thrust to possibly dangerous levels for some action designs.
If the case backs out sufficiently such that the solid web has moved beyond the support of the chamber walls then extraction will be difficult due to the residual pressure on the bolt. A competent gunsmith will be able to make a minor adjustment to the extractor to improve (but not fully rectify) your problem.
Remington occasionally throws up brass that is somewhat soft in in the web area and the problem can be due to a number of factors combined.