.17 Remington Project Rifle

[GQshayne]

I have been looking for an old Tikka chambered in 17, 222, or .223. Not sure if they came in .222 Magnum, but I have not seen one anyway. Depending on what rifle I found I was then considering the calibre - if it was .222 or .223 I would leave it, but a .17 I thought would need to be rechambered. Rifles in .17 seem to be cheaper, I guess it is not such a popular cartridge now. Personally, my memories of it were a fussy, barrel wearing calibre that did not like any wind. And needed lots of cleaning.

And so I have seen a rifle in .17 advertised as "Fair". No details of why as yet, but guessing barrel, as it looks ok in photos. See what I find out. The rifle I want is not that common, so not a heap to choose from. Like a lot of projects, this one does not make a lot of sense economically. But I have a Tikka LSA55 Deluxe in .243, and am looking for a matching rifle in a smaller calibre. I know that I can buy plenty of other stuff for half of what this will cost, but that is not the point.

So what do we think?????? It could be re-barrelled with a stainless barrel, and modern powders and cleaners are better than they were. Is any one in favour of the .17, and would want to keep it? Let me know if you are a fan.

The other options are .204 or .223. I already have a .243, so not interested in going bigger, this is purely a varmint rifle. So for shooting small projectiles at foxes etc, what would you choose and why?

[AZZA'S HJ47]

Id love to get a 17 cal rifle and have considered making the jump a few times. Id also like to pick up something be it a old sako or tikka to convert to a 17 fox/bunny rifle.

I have a 17hmr that would be replaced to get something along these lines. (If i were to go down this path) the only thing i dislike about yhe 17 is it is a rimfire (love my reloading its a problem)

Id like to see your build up if you do choose to go down this path. Love my 17 cal rifle accurate and dependable. Hope to see some more developments

[Baronvonrort]

Like a lot of projects, this one does not make a lot of sense economically. But I have a Tikka LSA55 Deluxe in .243, and am looking for a matching rifle in a smaller calibre. I know that I can buy plenty of other stuff for half of what this will cost, but that is not the point.

So what do we think?????? It could be re-barrelled with a stainless barrel, and modern powders and cleaners are better than they were. Is any one in favour of the .17, and would want to keep it? Let me know if you are a fan.

The other options are .204 or .223. I already have a .243, so not interested in going bigger, this is purely a varmint rifle. So for shooting small projectiles at foxes etc, what would you choose and why?

I would avoid the 17 Remington because factory ammo costs a fortune, if you're reloading it would be much cheaper so it comes down to how much you really want a 17 rem.

https://www.horsleyparkgunshop.com.au/category/409-17-remington


The .243 would shoot 55-58 gr Varmageddon and Vmax a few hundred feet per second quicker than the .223 with starting loads so that could be the cheapest option when considering cost of rifle and glass.

The .223 would be the cheapest option for ammo if reloading or buying factory ammo.

I would go the .204 since you already have a .243.

Both the .204 and .223 would be better choices than 17 rem in my opinion

[straightshooter]

GQshayne
A tikka M55 made prior to the merger with Sako would be a good choice of action. From memory no plastic parts and generally an OK design.
If you have a desire for a 17 rem then go for it. Don't pay too much attention to the bagging it gets as it is mostly uninformed hot air.
About 25 years ago I had one built on a mini Mark X action (these days Zastava M85) which would put 5 shots into 5/8" at 200 yards with only a Burris 6xBR scope using a free recoil shooting technique.
These days I have it set up for a +- 1.5" point blanc range of approximately 250 meters. Just point and shoot- no thinking involved within that range.
If you don't chase hero status with your handloads, cleaning and barrel life will be no worse than your 243.

[GQshayne]

Interesting how many people like the .17. Bit of nostalgia maybe??? I wonder with modern barrels, powder, projectiles etc how the fouling problem has changed - it can only be better you would think. Barrel wear is a good point. Most probably no worse than my .243. Ammo cost is not an issue for me, as I am a reloader, so after initial cost of brass it is not a concern.

I am assuming that this rifle, and many others of that vintage, and going to have barrels that have seen better days. Not all of course, but a rifle in "Fair" condition could go either way. I recall one of our members on here bought a .17 recently, which showed signs of wear, but he just kept working at getting the barrel clean, which took him ages, and that was all that was wrong with it. That is why I have not narrowed my choice to a particular calibre, as if it is worn out and needs rebarelling it can be made into .223 or .204.

But if it turned out to be accurate, then keeping it as a .17 is an option. .223 does have the advantage of components being many and varied, and priced well. I have not looked at what projectiles are available for the .17, but it would have to be considerably less than .223 . The other issue with the .17 is the projectiles do not have the best ballistics when compared to .22 projectiles. Not sure how much this matters in the field though.

Interested in everyone's comments.

[Stix]

I cant speak for a 17 of any kind, having never owned one.
Although, being a lover of spotlighting foxes & keeping furs, i hope i get to own & shoot one some dsy.

I can however speak for the 204 as i own one of them, (im no ballistics geek though so cant compare 17''s to 20 cal's).

But in my opinion the 204 is certainly worth considering as a buy or build...ill never be without one now ive had a taste...its a great calibre for small game, & as an added bonus you dont get with a 17, is its also legal to use for knocking roos over, (with a 40gn bullet).

I use 3 different loads for it, what i call my standard load using cheap 32g bullets-these shoot everything except roos-its fast, flat & hits hard...
Also, a seperate lot with 40's for roos...
And another batch shooting the cheap 32's again but these are loaded with trailboss--cheap to plink with & will still comfortably take out fur within ranges compared to the hornets.

Its a winner of a cartridge for small game in my book...!!

[SCJ429]

I would like to build myself a 20 cal, the 204 is good but I think when I do it I will build a 20 Prac. With a 40 grain pill the 20 is very flat shooting and bucks the wind better than most things. Better selection and availability of pills for the 20 over the 17. Lapua brass is available to be necked down for the Prac.

[GQshayne]

Good points. I found out today that the .20 cal 40gn Hornady V Max has a better BC than a .224 55gn V Max, so the .204 is pretty good down range. Lots of love for the .17 though, with good results had from some specialist projectiles, such as 30gn etc, which give a better BC. Some people love them. No doubt that the .204 is superior, from all reports.

As for the 20 Prac, it is made from a necked down .223 isn't it???

As for my project, for the second time, it is on hold, as the rifle I saw for sale has been sold. It was gone before I saw the ad. As it happens, the owner told me the barrel was worn out anyway. Given the rifles appearance it looked to be looked after, but well used, so that fits. But I reckon that if a rifle can be found at the right price, a conversion to .204 is looking good if it is chambered in .17. From what I have seen so far, the rifles in .222 and the occasional .223 are higher priced than the .17, so I can save a few bucks on starting price.

Anyway, back to looking.

[marksman]

make yourself a 17 mach 4, get lapua 221 fireball cases
use the 17 mach 4 seating die with the stem removed to do the first pass. Imperial wax was used to lube them.
the 17 mach 4 full length die is used as a second pass. No lost cases

you will not be disappointed

[SCJ429]

Yes the 20 Practical is the easiest wildcat around, just neck it down from 223 to 20 cal and shoot.

The 204 is a great round also and I can get a sub one inch group at 300 out of a factory Sako using Hornady brass. As Stix said it is a real winner.

[GQshayne]

I had not considered a wildcat actually. Not sure I want to go down that route. Another thing occurred to me today, and that is that my dad has an M55 Tikka in .222. It is not the "Deluxe" model that I am after, but is a nice rifle. No point having another one between us. And also, I have recently acquired and tested a .223 for a friend of mine. I had never used a .223 before, and whilst it is a good thing (Tikka T3 Varmint stainless) I like the idea of something smaller. So the .204 is really the front runner, and whatever calibre rifle I get I can change it to .204. The idea is to fit a medium/heavy stainless barrel, and after polishing the old metalwork, get it Cerakoted. I will then re-finish the Deluxe stock (Monte Carlo cheekpiece, beaver tail forend, and bigger palmswell), which will match my existing Tikka Deluxe. That is the current plan anyway. Just need to keep my eye on the ads. The last one sold quickly as it had a Kahles scope on it (I think). I did not want the scope, but it would have had appeal to a lot of people. Patience is a virtue as they say!

[Stix]

make yourself a 17 mach 4, get lapua 221 fireball cases
use the 17 mach 4 seating die with the stem removed to do the first pass. Imperial wax was used to lube them.
the 17 mach 4 full length die is used as a second pass. No lost cases

you will not be disappointed

Hey marksman...this may be a one of those silly Q's...
But...
What is it about the 17 mach IV you like & why that over 17 Rem...?
I just looked up its basics & the Rem goes much faster... (not that this mach IV is a slouch...).

Just curious...

[AZZA'S HJ47]

Less powder less heat quieter and great brass life id imagine.

[Stix]

Ok cheers..

[marksman]

yes less powder, better barrel life and the same velocity as the 17 rem

[GQshayne]

Couple of developments. I happened to find a Deluxe stock for sale, which I have purchased. By all reports, and from photos, it appears to be in excellent condition, and has great figuring in the walnut. It is the closest in appearance to my other stock that I have seen on any rifle. As stocks vary so much, I thought I would have to just accept whatever I found, and that would be good enough. But this stock is very good, as is my other one. They will be a great matching pair.

Apart from it being an excellent match to my other Deluxe stock, it also now allows me to buy a standard stocked rifle, of which there is a lot more to choose from. I have contacted the seller of an M55 in 17 Rem, and asked about barrel condition, and he has advised honestly that he does not know. He has sold the rifle to a mate, and then bought it back again. In the period of time the mate owned it, he fired 40 rounds, but never cleaned the barrel. It has now been cleaned, but not tested.

Other potential purchasers have asked the same question of course. Given the cost of re-barrelling, condition of the barrel needs to be known. He knows this, and is now going to get to the range with some factory loads he has, as well as a few handloads. Once he has tested it he is going to let me know what sort of group it shoots. Rifle is well priced, so it is an option to buy either way.

These rifles in good condition will shoot sub MOA, so if this one will still do MOA now then I may leave it as is, and try it out as a 17 and see how I like it. If it is worn out, then I may buy it to convert it to a 204 straight away. If it is worn out I would hope to get it a bit cheaper of course.

Find out how he goes next week.

[GQshayne]

Received my Deluxe stock today. It is very good, excellent figuring in the walnut, and no major imperfections. Despite the seller telling me he could not find a mark on it, there are one or two small ones. When I told him that I could re-finish the stock he told me it was very good, and it would not be necessary in his opinion. The finish has been redone from factory, I suspect with Tru Oil, but it is not particularly good. Not in my view anyway.

Anyhow, I was likely to re-do it anyway, simply so it would match my other stock, which I refinished with Tru Oil, but to my own method - slightly different from what Birchwood Casey instruct you to do. So when the time comes I will sort it out so that it looks better than the day it was sold.

[GQshayne]

And this arvo I have agreed to buy a rifle. It is a Tikka M55, in .17 Rem. It was advertised in "fair condition" but the photos looked good. I asked the seller about condition and from what he told me it was in pretty good condition, stock metalwork etc. The barrel was the problem, as it had fired 40 rounds without cleaning, and had been put away for a long time. He had sold it to a mate who did this to it, and then he has bought it back for some reason. Since he had re-acquired it, it had not been used. The barrel took a lot of work to clean he told me. He reckoned it looked ok, but had not tried to shoot a group.

We had a bit of a general gun yarn, and talked about the cost of a new barrel of it was stuffed. He told me he had received a few calls and everyone had the same concern. His ad did state it was fair, and would make a good project to convert to .204, so I guess he was concerned it was too far gone, hence the good price. He said he would take it to the range and see what it could do next week. He had a box of factory rounds, and also dies, cases and projectiles to make up some handloads. So his range day was today.

Remington factory loads were not great, and some Hornady HP 25gn reloads were ok, but not wonderful. But the 25gn Vmax reloads shot well. He had two 3 shot groups that both went under 20mm at 100m. I told him I would buy it. It has a cheap BSA scope on it, but mounted with a bridge mount, RCBS dies, 98 cases, most unfired, and some projectiles.

Put my PTA in this arvo, and to my surprise it was mandatory to provide the serial number now. I could not avoid it. Hopefully this will not cause any problems.

Given that the rifle is shooting well (or so it seems) I will keep it as a .17 and see how it goes.

[straightshooter]

Before you condemn the barrel try this cleaning method.
Day 1 bronze brush the bore with Hoppe's copper remover or similar solvent and leave standing with muzzle down.
Day 2 patch out with a tight fitting patch and then with a nylon brush brush the bore with the same Hoppe's copper remover or similar solvent and leave standing with muzzle down.
Day 3 patch out and inspect the patch, if there are any green or blue stains repeat Day 2
Keep doing until patches come out without stains.
If you are lucky and there is no or only slight etching where the copper has been removed and there are no other defects like rust in the barrel, you may be surprised to find the rifle shoots well provided there are no other optical or mechanical issues.
If you are somewhat unlucky and the etching is severe then the rifle may still shoot well only to foul quickly and lose accuracy when fouled. There will be no fix other than diligent cleaning or a new barrel.

[marksman]

sounds to me like you have already got the itch to rebarrel
it's not a bad thing
its a disease

it would be smart to clean the barrel properly as straightshooter said
as usual methods of cleaning will be different for different people but anyway just clean it
maybe polish the throat, recrown, lighten the trigger, bed the action

f@rk it just order a new air gauged match grade barrel and be done with it
just make sure the smith is an accuracy smith who uses match reamers
or you might as well have bought a factory rifle

[SCJ429]

Have you seen a popular QLD gunshop is selling IBI barrels from Canada for $390. I saw one shoot a 0.800 inch group at 300 metres. I didn't see any in 20 cals but you could ask.

[GQshayne]

As it happens, Straightshooters cleaning method is about the same as my own. I will certainly give it a good clean when I get it, and then go from there. Perhaps as Marksman suggests, some minor gunsmithing may be needed. Trigger does need adjusting I am told, as it has a little creep in it, and these triggers are excellent, so that can be adjusted out. I will do a bedding job on it myself, as my last one turned out pretty good. Hopefully after this, I can replicate the small groups the seller showed me that he has shot. If I can do that, then it will stay as a .17. If it turns out otherwise, then I will make it a .204, but at this point it will be the good old .17 Remington.

[GQshayne]

https://www.meoptasportsoptics.com/en/produkt/meostar-r2-2-5-15x56-rd-1000/

I have bought a scope for my new rifle - Meopta Meostar 2.5-15x56. I have a 2-12 Meostar on another rifle, and it is a superb optic. So I have bought a matching one for the .17.

Gun shop has contacted me about their stock, as the scope comes with a selection of reticles. Their sale price is for a BDC reticle, so that is what I bought via their website. However on the day I ordered it, they sold it in the store. They have another one in a normal reticle, so I may end up with that depending on distributor stock.

So, a question for our members. What are the pros and cons of the BDC in your opinion for a hunting rifle? I figure it could be useful, but I have only ever used conventional reticles. I would be happy with the normal reticle, as it is a safe option that I am used to. Any fans of the BDC for hunting?

[GQshayne]

Here is one view on the subject.

https://www.luckygunner.com/lounge/the-straight-dope-on-bdc-scopes/

Not mentioned in this is the fact that it changes as you vary the magnification. Hmmmmmm………

[GQshayne]

Ah well, it doesn't matter now - no more scopes with the BDC in Australia at the moment. So I have agreed to buy the scope with the normal 4C reticle I am used to. Just have to do things the old fashioned way for a while longer.

[GQshayne]

Cleaning the barrel is a slooowwww process. I have spent a few days on it so far, and I am still getting carbon and copper out of it. I have read that some people have found that layers of carbon/copper can build up, and that you have to progressively get rid of them. I am finding something that resembles that problem. Normally, I have patched out with solvent to remove carbon until patches are clean, then changed over to copper removal. Once that is removed a few more patches to check for any more carbon and then it is finished. Not so with this rifle. So far, when I switch between solvents it starts cleaning again, and a lot more fouling comes out.

It is an old rifle, so I guess that I am dealing with 30 years worth of carbon and copper. Products and methods I use work well normally, and I have seen this problem before on old rifles, so I just need to keep plodding along.

[GQshayne]

Cleaning is continuing! Looks like I am getting close to a result now, with patches coming out cleaner than previously. Perhaps I could have done this quicker, but I have tried not to brush it too much, rather letting the solvent do its job, and then patching it out. I have used a few patches.....

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And here is the old girl as she is now. Stock is in reasonable condition for its age, with only one bit of damage that cannot be repaired easily. The forend has a good ding on one corner, which is too deep to do much about. I think to try to fill it etc would make it worse. It is only small, so is best left alone I think. Wet sanding with Tru Oil will fill it a bit, and round the edges off. That will have to do. The stock will then be sold off to a new owner.

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Bluing is well worn, and there is some corrosion as well. Not bad though, so no major pitting that I can see. Looks like it has ben resting against something that held moisture, as the rust marks on the barrel are in a line. I think it will all polish off.

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And the reason the normal stock will be sold is that I have a Deluxe stock for it. It is in very good condition, with no major faults. It has been refinished at some point, just not very well. It is pretty good, but not as good as it could be. So it will be refinished before the project is complete. Nice piece of timber, in the old Monte Carlo style. I quite like this, and am well used to its feel, as my well used Tikka in .243 has the same stock.

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[duncan61]

The farmer that lets me shoot on his blocks bought a brand new .243 and was telling me that it has stopped shooting well.I asked about his cleaning routine and he just wiped the outside with an oily rag.I took it home and it took a week to clean the bore

[GQshayne]

Yep, It can sometimes. I am still working away at mine, I am still getting cooper out of it. I thought I needed to do something different today. I did not have any Sweets handy, which I will use I think, so I thought I would give the old hot water trick a whirl. I have not done this before, but my father has in the past on badly fouled rifles. So I boiled the jug, poured it slowly through the bore, and then did it again. The plan was to get it hot, get the water out, and then get some copper removing in there while the barrel was hot. So I put a patch through to dry it out, and it came out filthy!!! After a week of cleaning, with no solvent, it was quite dirty. So it obviously works.

I just had a thought. I should put some solvent on that patch and see if it changes colour. At the moment it just looks dirty, but solvent may turn it blue, which would confirm if it is copper. Worth a try.

[GQshayne]

Still cleaning...…..

The dirty patch mentioned above did not show signs of copper when solvent was added to it.

It is a .17 Rem, so one of the most notorious barrel foulers, but I expected to be finished by now. The theory of copper and carbon getting deposited in layers seems to be the case. Changing between solvents and methods seems to be the way to stir things up and make some progress. But it is weird to have put 200 patches through a barrel, and then all of a sudden the next one is black.