30-06 charge testing Sauer xt100

[TassieTiger]

This has been coming for a long time for me...for a variety of reasons including a crappy steyr pro hunter that wouldn’t shoot for crap.
Anyway - got couple hours today after reloading a few last night.
Set up my desk at just on 170m.
Used AR2209 - started at 55.0gns in .5gn increments up to 58.0gns.
Shooting zmax 168gn projectiles from lapua brass.
Was shooting 5 shot groups and waiting 10-15mins between shots, with carefully monitored barrel temp. This is a hunting rifle at 2.9kg so this is kinda pointless to be target shooting with it but it’s a lot of fun and I’d like to push it and see how far it can go.

The little sauer only has a bushnell 3-9x40 $90 scope and I’m definitely at the limits of range for that scope for target type shooting.

First was 55.0gns which was kind of better that I thought it would be...

Then each 0.5gn progression as I went - the last group being 58.0gns.

I’d be interested in hearing comments on what more experienced shooters would develop next based on the evidence.
Because of my lack of skill / bench set up - you’d almost have to excuse at least the worst of each group...so....the 58’s look good yeah? But so does 55.0 with an excused flyer...

[SCJ429]

Did you record any velocities when you did your testing? Or do we only have the groups?

[TassieTiger]

Unfortunately - groups only.
I could take a couple photos of the bruises on my shoulder per 5 shot group? The darker ones indicate faster velocity?!
Seriously - the bloody rest I borrowed, had two steel edges where the biutt of the rifle sat...every freakin shot drove two 3mm steel edges into my shoulder - but once I started, I did nt want to change anything so grimaced through it. Was a good rest mind - had a heap of adjustment and a lot of fine tuning allowing for constant target acquisition , so that I really only had to cradle the rifle gently, pull the trigger and wait for the pain lol.

[SCJ429]

You appear to reduce vertical the faster they went. I would reshoot 57 to 58 grains in 0.3 grain increments. If you could get a chronograph for this testing all the better.

[TassieTiger]

Fark - Your on it SC - I adjusted the scope 3 clicks to the right and 3 clicks down after shooting the 57.0 group...you don’t miss much.

The Harvey booklet says 59.0 is upper end for the 168’s but I was compressing the load at that, so thought I’d set my limit just under compression - 58...maybe 58.5.

Would you go to .2gn on a larger caliber rifle? A chrono would answer that I guess...

[SCJ429]

No, I don't think you need to have 0.2 grain increments. You will not miss the node with 0.3 increases, you can then fine tune with some jump testing.

[marksman]

the load I have been tipping sambar over with lately is

168gr berger classic hunter
vel 2900fps
60.5gr 2209
win cases
oal 85mm
with a very light crimp

I'm getting consistently .5" moa at 100yd and its been proven out to 350yd
most shot's have been brain/neck shots so it is a bang flop

if I can say anything from what you have written I would suggest not using a test that the rifle sits in but a set of bags so that the rifle can recoil freely
I do like your 58gr load and would rest that after fowling the barrel with a few
I cant remember off my head and it's to cold out in the shed at the moment but I'm sure I had another sweet spot at 58gr
because I am using win brass with this load I can use more powder without pressure because I have more volume
are you getting any pressure signs? my loads were worked up with quickload for my rifle so I went over what the book says

IMHO I recon you are doing alright

[bigfellascott]

I think you will be able to hit a wallaby or deer with any of those loads.

[TassieTiger]

the load I have been tipping sambar over with lately is

168gr berger classic hunter
vel 2900fps
60.5gr 2209
win cases
oal 85mm
with a very light crimp

I'm getting consistently .5" moa at 100yd and its been proven out to 350yd
most shot's have been brain/neck shots so it is a bang flop

if I can say anything from what you have written I would suggest not using a test that the rifle sits in but a set of bags so that the rifle can recoil freely
I do like your 58gr load and would rest that after fowling the barrel with a few
I cant remember off my head and it's to cold out in the shed at the moment but I'm sure I had another sweet spot at 58gr
because I am using win brass with this load I can use more powder without pressure because I have more volume
are you getting any pressure signs? my loads were worked up with quickload for my rifle so I went over what the book says

IMHO I recon you are doing alright

Thanks MM.
I ve never experienced pressure signs so don’t exactly know what I’m looking at - other than IT primer pics etc. bolt opens without any trouble - i “feel” I could go further as the 58’s are being handled easily.

I’m almost convinced I need to better the scope now to improve on this - and am looking at a Leo 4-12 to replace the bushy...

I know all rifles are different but I might do as SC and you’ve mentioned and bump up slowly now by .3 and see if I can sneak to 60gns...

I take your point re the rest - I have some bags and also a bi pod. I simply found the rest a fraction easier (more consistent) to hold the cross hairs with 4 equal quarters of the target decal in the scope - but given the recoil was so painful on that bloody thing, I’d not be surprised if I developed a small flinch.
Thanks for comments - I’ll take on board. Cheers

[TassieTiger]

I think you will be able to hit a wallaby or deer with any of those loads.

I knew it, I knew it, I knew it lol.
There isn’t any reasoning to me doing this bfs - it’s silly and stupid and a little wasteful if I’m honest. But - I’m learning and I like pulling triggers (among other things lol) but it’s a hunting rifle so why bother ? I don’t know the answer to that...it already does what I need it too but...

[bigfellascott]

I think you will be able to hit a wallaby or deer with any of those loads.

I knew it, I knew it, I knew it lol.
There isn’t any reasoning to me doing this bfs - it’s silly and stupid and a little wasteful if I’m honest. But - I’m learning and I like pulling triggers (among other things lol) but it’s a hunting rifle so why bother ? I don’t know the answer to that...it already does what I need it too but...

Yeah we all go through the must shoot groups thing when we are starting out LOL I don't bother anymore, I often don't bother testing new reloads either to see how they group, I just put em into action on fur and if the fur falls over I call it good.

I just confirm where they are shooting in relation to POA adjust the scope if needed and that's good enough for me these days (I only hunt so no need for tiny bug holes to do that with good consistency) 1" is good enough for 99% of what I hunt these days, saves on my time and money which I'm happy about.

Cheers mate, enjoy the trigger time.

[marksman]

Tassie the best way to check for pressure is by measuring the case head after the case has been fireformed in your chamber with a mid range load
the reason for fireforming first is all cases will expand when new, you want to see expansion after the case fits your chamber
http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/reloadi ... le-reloads

my 30-06 wore a 4-12 leupold vx1 for many years till I got snobby and bought a 4-12x50 vxr duplex for the ilumination
then I got even more snobby and bought a vx3L 4.5-14x50 for it, if you bought a second hand vx2 4-12 you would never change it
but I got very good use out of the vx1 4-12, dropped more with that than I do now with a snobby scope
I even shot my first fallow, red and sambar with the vx1 4-12x40

beware of flinch it will fark you up really bad, when shooting at dinner you will never ever feel the recoil, dry fire practice with a snap cap

[TassieTiger]

Cheers for replies.
You know BFS, when I was growing up around hunting - that’s all I ever did. If I snot at a can - I’d get a kick up the arse for wasting a shot! Now, I’m in a better position BUT Once I know I’m getting best out of my firearms - that’s pretty much it - I load up a shed load of that combination and hunting is 90% for that rifle.
This rifles a bit new - and I’m learning both the rifle and reloading processes as I go - so, all good. And it’s fun. .

MM - thanks for advice and link. I struggle measuring a thousands of an inch let alone 10,000 of an inch like that article. I mean I have a set of $200 calipsrr but at 10,000 of an inch even temperatures fluctuations change the size of the brass...this is where I got really lost previously with the comparator. Every time I measured something I got different results.
Ie I had my 260 set / forget - best shooting iron I own and I smoke measured the distance to the rifling and all was sweet in the world...until I bought a oal gauge and comparator - that says my previous measurements on my 260 are wrong...so I load up a few based on comparator - they sjoot like crap. I go and the measure the OAL
Gauging and get a different measurement....arrgghhh.....then I say screw it - and buy an Adler lever action lol...