223 vs 22-250 for roos

[Stix]

the common thing that seems to run in a lot of posts on this subject is getting within range or having a rifle with a usable range . 223 does have accuracy and a bit more reach than my favorite 222 ,without the muzzle blast of the 250. i realise it's not a cheap way to do it, but a 243 shooting 75 - 85 grain projectile would have a flat trajectory and better reach and down range energy, would it not ? i'm no proffessional , and am not likely to be. but i can shoot good tight groups off a rest with my handloads. i've been asked to help thin out grasshoppers a bit to help out a landholder (legally of coarse ) , and given my choice between 222 and 243, i'm starting to think the 243 might be the better option for distance . any opinions on this ?

Mate, as you know shooting groups off a bench & real life hunting are 2 very diff things...just start with the 222, and know your hold over out to what ever range you can shoot them too, & have the 243 on the back seat.
The 243 is a bit too loud for a roo gun, but you could use it if youre not comfortable with the 222, &/or on the longer range ones when the wind blows up a bit.
If youre going to be shooting in the wind, know what your wind reading limits are too...

Id suggest just smack a good few at normal modest ranges with the 222 (maybe out to 130-140...or stay at 100-120 max if you prefer) and that will give you some confidence...try putting the bullet in their brains rather than just aiming for centre of head mass...& remember to stay within your known range ability.
I rekon a good shooter is someone who knows their ability & has the kahoonas to not take a shot if he is iffy about it--irrelevant of whether thats 80 metres or 280 metres --from a shooters perspective, "having a crack" at a 220 metre shot & fluking a hit is just as bad a shooting as blowing the snout off one & having it get away ...so if you havnt shot roo's head sized targets & landed most or all shots in a couple of inches-ish on paper at 200, dont try it in the field--remember your groups off a bench will be bigger in real life in the field...

If you have a range finder, carry that with you & range as many as you can to get a feel it...& also range the ones that youre not sure of...

Roos heads are pretty big target, but they vary quite a lot in size (young to big buck) so depending on the lay of the land & your perspective, sometimes under a light a big roo's head at 180 can look like a small to medium one at 80, & visa versa...thats where knowing the land &/or having a rangefinder at hand can be really effective tools...

So go with your 222 mate with 243 as back-up, i rekon you & that rifle are plenty capable of good brain shots on roos, its just a matter of getting a feel for the field conditions & work up to the 200 metre shots as you're comfortable...

[Bill]

I know a guy who is contracted for culling and he uses a 6mm BR with a 1:8 twist. While it is particularly devistating to the head he has no problems with damage to the carcass. I also use a 6mm BR and a 22/250 and would be hard pressed to spot the difference with head shots.

sorry SC429 I should have clarified the fast twist 22s can be a good thing with the heavier slow pills, when you throw faster lighter 55gr pills down range their performance can be some what erratic. A mate had his 223 rebarreled to a fast twist cause thats all the gunsmith had at the time, turned out to be a costly mistake as too many deer and roo's got down graded from schrapnel damage down thru the neck.

[bigrich]

the common thing that seems to run in a lot of posts on this subject is getting within range or having a rifle with a usable range . 223 does have accuracy and a bit more reach than my favorite 222 ,without the muzzle blast of the 250. i realise it's not a cheap way to do it, but a 243 shooting 75 - 85 grain projectile would have a flat trajectory and better reach and down range energy, would it not ? i'm no proffessional , and am not likely to be. but i can shoot good tight groups off a rest with my handloads. i've been asked to help thin out grasshoppers a bit to help out a landholder (legally of coarse ) , and given my choice between 222 and 243, i'm starting to think the 243 might be the better option for distance . any opinions on this ?

Mate, as you know shooting groups off a bench & real life hunting are 2 very diff things...just start with the 222, and know your hold over out to what ever range you can shoot them too, & have the 243 on the back seat.
The 243 is a bit too loud for a roo gun, but you could use it if youre not comfortable with the 222, &/or on the longer range ones when the wind blows up a bit.
If youre going to be shooting in the wind, know what your wind reading limits are too...

Id suggest just smack a good few at normal modest ranges with the 222 (maybe out to 130-140...or stay at 100-120 max if you prefer) and that will give you some confidence...try putting the bullet in their brains rather than just aiming for centre of head mass...& remember to stay within your known range ability.
I rekon a good shooter is someone who knows their ability & has the kahoonas to not take a shot if he is iffy about it--irrelevant of whether thats 80 metres or 280 metres --from a shooters perspective, "having a crack" at a 220 metre shot & fluking a hit is just as bad a shooting as blowing the snout off one & having it get away ...so if you havnt shot roo's head sized targets & landed most or all shots in a couple of inches-ish on paper at 200, dont try it in the field--remember your groups off a bench will be bigger in real life in the field...

If you have a range finder, carry that with you & range as many as you can to get a feel it...& also range the ones that youre not sure of...

Roos heads are pretty big target, but they vary quite a lot in size (young to big buck) so depending on the lay of the land & your perspective, sometimes under a light a big roo's head at 180 can look like a small to medium one at 80, & visa versa...thats where knowing the land &/or having a rangefinder at hand can be really effective tools...

So go with your 222 mate with 243 as back-up, i rekon you & that rifle are plenty capable of good brain shots on roos, its just a matter of getting a feel for the field conditions & work up to the 200 metre shots as you're comfortable...

thanks for the advice stix , i'm a cautious person by nature , so rest assured i won't be trying anything outside of my skill set i'm gunna ease into this grasshopper thinning job . i understand what your saying about the bench to the paddock being different things , i know my 6.5 well and have knocked goats at respectable ranges with that, so should transition to the 222 okay . like ya say , i'll start of comfortable with the 222 and increase range as i deem necessary . as you know from some of my previous posts mate , that 222 is a real shooter, the only thing that can let it down is the nut on the trigger

[Stix]

the common thing that seems to run in a lot of posts on this subject is getting within range or having a rifle with a usable range . 223 does have accuracy and a bit more reach than my favorite 222 ,without the muzzle blast of the 250. i realise it's not a cheap way to do it, but a 243 shooting 75 - 85 grain projectile would have a flat trajectory and better reach and down range energy, would it not ? i'm no proffessional , and am not likely to be. but i can shoot good tight groups off a rest with my handloads. i've been asked to help thin out grasshoppers a bit to help out a landholder (legally of coarse ) , and given my choice between 222 and 243, i'm starting to think the 243 might be the better option for distance . any opinions on this ?

Mate, as you know shooting groups off a bench & real life hunting are 2 very diff things...just start with the 222, and know your hold over out to what ever range you can shoot them too, & have the 243 on the back seat.
The 243 is a bit too loud for a roo gun, but you could use it if youre not comfortable with the 222, &/or on the longer range ones when the wind blows up a bit.
If youre going to be shooting in the wind, know what your wind reading limits are too...

Id suggest just smack a good few at normal modest ranges with the 222 (maybe out to 130-140...or stay at 100-120 max if you prefer) and that will give you some confidence...try putting the bullet in their brains rather than just aiming for centre of head mass...& remember to stay within your known range ability.
I rekon a good shooter is someone who knows their ability & has the kahoonas to not take a shot if he is iffy about it--irrelevant of whether thats 80 metres or 280 metres --from a shooters perspective, "having a crack" at a 220 metre shot & fluking a hit is just as bad a shooting as blowing the snout off one & having it get away ...so if you havnt shot roo's head sized targets & landed most or all shots in a couple of inches-ish on paper at 200, dont try it in the field--remember your groups off a bench will be bigger in real life in the field...

If you have a range finder, carry that with you & range as many as you can to get a feel it...& also range the ones that youre not sure of...

Roos heads are pretty big target, but they vary quite a lot in size (young to big buck) so depending on the lay of the land & your perspective, sometimes under a light a big roo's head at 180 can look like a small to medium one at 80, & visa versa...thats where knowing the land &/or having a rangefinder at hand can be really effective tools...

So go with your 222 mate with 243 as back-up, i rekon you & that rifle are plenty capable of good brain shots on roos, its just a matter of getting a feel for the field conditions & work up to the 200 metre shots as you're comfortable...

thanks for the advice stix , i'm a cautious person by nature , so rest assured i won't be trying anything outside of my skill set i'm gunna ease into this grasshopper thinning job . i understand what your saying about the bench to the paddock being different things , i know my 6.5 well and have knocked goats at respectable ranges with that, so should transition to the 222 okay . like ya say , i'll start of comfortable with the 222 and increase range as i deem necessary . as you know from some of my previous posts mate , that 222 is a real shooter, the only thing that can let it down is the nut on the trigger

Follow that bullet into the brain & you & that 222 will be a force to be reckoned with when it comes to roos...

Personally, 150-200 i prefer over the bonnet to be sure...so if there is a group of them & many sit or dont go too far after the first, ill hop out & go over the bonnet to save moving the car...

[bigfellascott]

the common thing that seems to run in a lot of posts on this subject is getting within range or having a rifle with a usable range . 223 does have accuracy and a bit more reach than my favorite 222 ,without the muzzle blast of the 250. i realise it's not a cheap way to do it, but a 243 shooting 75 - 85 grain projectile would have a flat trajectory and better reach and down range energy, would it not ? i'm no proffessional , and am not likely to be. but i can shoot good tight groups off a rest with my handloads. i've been asked to help thin out grasshoppers a bit to help out a landholder (legally of coarse ) , and given my choice between 222 and 243, i'm starting to think the 243 might be the better option for distance . any opinions on this ?

Mate, as you know shooting groups off a bench & real life hunting are 2 very diff things...just start with the 222, and know your hold over out to what ever range you can shoot them too, & have the 243 on the back seat.
The 243 is a bit too loud for a roo gun, but you could use it if youre not comfortable with the 222, &/or on the longer range ones when the wind blows up a bit.
If youre going to be shooting in the wind, know what your wind reading limits are too...

Id suggest just smack a good few at normal modest ranges with the 222 (maybe out to 130-140...or stay at 100-120 max if you prefer) and that will give you some confidence...try putting the bullet in their brains rather than just aiming for centre of head mass...& remember to stay within your known range ability.
I rekon a good shooter is someone who knows their ability & has the kahoonas to not take a shot if he is iffy about it--irrelevant of whether thats 80 metres or 280 metres --from a shooters perspective, "having a crack" at a 220 metre shot & fluking a hit is just as bad a shooting as blowing the snout off one & having it get away ...so if you havnt shot roo's head sized targets & landed most or all shots in a couple of inches-ish on paper at 200, dont try it in the field--remember your groups off a bench will be bigger in real life in the field...

If you have a range finder, carry that with you & range as many as you can to get a feel it...& also range the ones that youre not sure of...

Roos heads are pretty big target, but they vary quite a lot in size (young to big buck) so depending on the lay of the land & your perspective, sometimes under a light a big roo's head at 180 can look like a small to medium one at 80, & visa versa...thats where knowing the land &/or having a rangefinder at hand can be really effective tools...

So go with your 222 mate with 243 as back-up, i rekon you & that rifle are plenty capable of good brain shots on roos, its just a matter of getting a feel for the field conditions & work up to the 200 metre shots as you're comfortable...

thanks for the advice stix , i'm a cautious person by nature , so rest assured i won't be trying anything outside of my skill set i'm gunna ease into this grasshopper thinning job . i understand what your saying about the bench to the paddock being different things , i know my 6.5 well and have knocked goats at respectable ranges with that, so should transition to the 222 okay . like ya say , i'll start of comfortable with the 222 and increase range as i deem necessary . as you know from some of my previous posts mate , that 222 is a real shooter, the only thing that can let it down is the nut on the trigger

Follow that bullet into the brain & you & that 222 will be a force to be reckoned with when it comes to roos...

Personally, 150-200 i prefer over the bonnet to be sure...so if there is a group of them & many sit or dont go too far after the first, ill hop out & go over the bonnet to save moving the car...

I do the same - I can’t get comfortable shooting out of the Ute anymore.

[TassieTiger]

A pro shooter I know of(a friend of a friend deal) carries several types of ammo for the one gun(223) and has a taped reference on his scope. He plugs cheap 55gns for most of his shots but if wind picks up he’ll change mags to 62’s...

[Stix]

I was doing a similar thing with my 22-250, but in order to try improve accuracy for longer shots, i got one of those Lee collet dies...and....WWOOAAAHHH...!!!!
Loaded 2/3rds of a batch (a bit of a test around both sides of the original load), just assuming it shouldn't be too far off the mark...( ),,,and the neck tension is so way high its gone from shooting inch groups to shotgun SG groups...and i annealed the brass too...!!

So im back to square one...have to learn how to use that die properly...after i pull the bulk of 2 batchs of loaded rounds...ffs...!!!
But i just dont have time...so theyve been sitting in a box for a while now...

This reloading caper is a fair dinkum pisser sometimes...!!!

[SCJ429]

Back the collet die right off Stix. It will feel like you are not sizing anything. Keep measuring the the neck until you are sizing it down with the tension you are looking for. Again it will feel like you are not doing any work. I am only looking for two thou difference but you may want more for a hunting load.

[marksman]

2 thou is what I aim for as well but understand Stix that if the rounds have sat for a while your bullets can cold weld with corrosion to the cases causing different neck tension that can change things dramatically and to prove it happens pull a bullet from a freshly made round then do it to a round that has sat for a month
sometimes when pulling bullets you need to bump them down before pulling and you will hear a crack when you do it, the bullet letting go
this may be the problem so before pulling all your rounds try seating a few bullets further into the neck and fire them to see if things change for the better
this is why if I am jumping I lightly crimp for a more consistent start pressure and if my bullet is touching I dont bother
I may be wrong Stix but its worth a try

[Stix]

Thanks guys...

I believe you about the welding bizo...These were loaded the night before i shot them marksman...so i doubt thats the issue...

Im sure its me--i had no idea what i was doing...followed the destructions & i nearly destructed it let me tell ya...!!

But ive since found previous posts youz have put up & read & watched some info...

Just need time to do it...
Im so pushed for time im having fish bloody fingers for dinner while ive got 2 fridges full of great game meat.(..ffs...)...

Good tip to push em down with the seater first...!!!...yep thats excellent...ill do em all before i pull em...

Thankfully its a cheap as rubbish bullet, so im not throwing much money away...then ill use em for fun trailboss loads when bunnies are back thick...

[Mark]

This is my setup Roo Farmer. All DIY its shooter specific, with no compromise like some of the factory made ones.

20170728_091706.jpg (1.15 MiB) Viewed 8472 times

[Roo farmer]

This is my setup Roo Farmer. All DIY its shooter specific, with no compromise like some of the factory made ones.

Looks like a good outfit. This is my rest. I have thought about extending it rearwards to offer a bit wider shot range, but I haven't really got any further than the thinking stage.

20190717_163326.jpg (2.06 MiB) Viewed 8405 times

[Royalfriz]

Hello. Would like some advice which is best for zeroing your rifle. I have a .223. I was thinking of going 50m. I heard 50m zero is good out to 200m which is good for Roos..

[SCJ429]

Why not zero at 100 and then rest your retical at the top of the head at 200 and the bullet will drop in where you want it.

[animalpest]

Hello. Would like some advice which is best for zeroing your rifle. I have a .223. I was thinking of going 50m. I heard 50m zero is good out to 200m which is good for Roos..

You are not going to be on target at 200m when zeroed for 50m. If taking shots that far, then you need to zero about 1inch high at 100.

We are talking hitting a roo's brain at that distance and you need to be spot on or don't bother.

Set yourself up with your normal rest you use and go hit a 70mm target 5/5 at 200m at night. Then you are a 200m roo shooter.

There is no need for bullets other than 50-55gr in a .222 or .223. They are flat shooting compared to heavier pills and certainly do the job on a roo brain. If wind is an issue, keep shots short, learn to read it, go bigger (22/250, .243) or go home.

My .223 is a heavy barrelled Tikka. My .222 is Sako Vixen, light barrelled in original form. They both do a great job

[Royalfriz]

Thanks mate. New to this. I was at the range today at got 15 rounds into a 150mm grouping so I got a lot of work to do.. Much appreciated.

[Royalfriz]

That was at 200m ^

[bladeracer]

Thanks mate. New to this. I was at the range today at got 15 rounds into a 150mm grouping so I got a lot of work to do.. Much appreciated.

You don't just need a 70mm group, you need _every_ shot to be within 35mm of where you're aiming. A three-inch gong would be good for practicing at 200m, regularly to keep your eye in.
Also practice at closer distances, make sure you can put five in 35mm at 100m, knowing that they'll be high at that distance. I wouldn't bother practicing at night if you aren't going to shoot at night though.

[bladeracer]

Hello. Would like some advice which is best for zeroing your rifle. I have a .223. I was thinking of going 50m. I heard 50m zero is good out to 200m which is good for Roos..

50m is very close, but you can certainly zero at that distance if you prefer. Most people would zero at 100m, or more likely, out around 180-220m so you can shoot foxes out to about 250m with very little hold under or over. If you're shooting in an area where all the foxes are taken at 50m or less I would still zero around 200m as your shots will only be a couple inches high or low out to 230m or so.

A 55gn VMax at 3200fps for example, zeroed at 200m, will be zeroed around 30m, 20mm high at 50m, 55mm high at 100m, 45mm high at 150m, zeroed at 200m, and 90mm low at 250m. As long as the rifle is accurate you can aim at the nose or chin at any distance out to 250m and the bullet should take the top off the skull or blow through the neck. You will have to spend some time practicing in wind to take those longer shots with the light bullets though. Even a breeze you can't feel on your skin will push the bullet perhaps 70mm to the side at 250m.

[animalpest]

Hello. Would like some advice which is best for zeroing your rifle. I have a .223. I was thinking of going 50m. I heard 50m zero is good out to 200m which is good for Roos..

50m is very close, but you can certainly zero at that distance if you prefer. Most people would zero at 100m, or more likely, out around 180-220m so you can shoot foxes out to about 250m with very little hold under or over. If you're shooting in an area where all the foxes are taken at 50m or less I would still zero around 200m as your shots will only be a couple inches high or low out to 230m or so.

A 55gn VMax at 3200fps for example, zeroed at 200m, will be zeroed around 30m, 20mm high at 50m, 55mm high at 100m, 45mm high at 150m, zeroed at 200m, and 90mm low at 250m. As long as the rifle is accurate you can aim at the nose or chin at any distance out to 250m and the bullet should take the top off the skull or blow through the neck. You will have to spend some time practicing in wind to take those longer shots with the light bullets though. Even a breeze you can't feel on your skin will push the bullet perhaps 70mm to the side at 250m.

Or blow its nose off.

It's for roos so brain shots only to a maximum of 200m.

[JohnV]

I have both and have used both but the .223 is all you need . It's cheaper .

[bladeracer]

It's for roos so brain shots only to a maximum of 200m.

I did wonder about that as he says he's in Victoria, and we need cull permits to take roos down here.

[SCJ429]

If you zero at 100 metres, a 50 grain bullet will be about 2.5 inches low at 200. As you say above, the wind can push you around more. I shoot foxes at that range by aiming at the top of the head and the bullet drops in between the eyes.

[bigrich]

It's for roos so brain shots only to a maximum of 200m.

I did wonder about that as he says he's in Victoria, and we need cull permits to take roos down here.

Yeah, the legality of what the OP is talking about crossed my mind when he sounds like a new shooter.
People talking about random roo culling online is not a good thing. Permit is required in Queensland where I am. I help out farmers if they ask me to , but roo culling is not something I “like “ to do . Foxes, cats and pigs on the other hand......

[Royalfriz]

Hello. Would like some advice which is best for zeroing your rifle. I have a .223. I was thinking of going 50m. I heard 50m zero is good out to 200m which is good for Roos..

You are not going to be on target at 200m when zeroed for 50m. If taking shots that far, then you need to zero about 1inch high at 100.



We are talking hitting a roo's brain at that distance and you need to be spot on or don't bother.

Set yourself up with your normal rest you use and go hit a 70mm target 5/5 at 200m at night. Then you are a 200m roo shooter.

There is no need for bullets other than 50-55gr in a .222 or .223. They are flat shooting compared to heavier pills and certainly do the job on a roo brain. If wind is an issue, keep shots short, learn to read it, go bigger (22/250, .243) or go home.

My .223 is a heavy barrelled Tikka. My .222 is Sako Vixen, light barrelled in original form. They both do a great job

Each group was three rounds and I just added up the total. I was using my magazine so every time I reloaded my position changed. I was just using the pilllw and my elbows. I don’t want to be to reliant on the luxuries.

[JohnV]

The roo shooting regulations are stupid . They want them all head shot but in the code of conduct you can still euthanize a wounded roo with a steel bar . Not many armature shooters can afford to shoot a lot of roos on tags anymore . Ammo is too expensive now .

[animalpest]

The roo shooting regulations are stupid . They want them all head shot but in the code of conduct you can still euthanize a wounded roo with a steel bar . Not many armature shooters can afford to shoot a lot of roos on tags anymore . Ammo is too expensive now .

Yeah...nah. No mention of a steel bar, but "If it is not safe to use a firearm, then another euthanasia method must be used on wounded animals (usually a concussive blow to the head or, if the animal is unconscious, bleeding out by cutting the arteries and veins in the neck).".

There is no obligation for " armature shooters" (sic) to shoot, nor to shoot more than you can afford. At around $1.45/round that means a night shooting 25 roos will cost you $36. Thats still not too bad and probably still cheaper than the fuel you will use!

[bladeracer]

...nor to shoot more than you can afford

What does this mean? Wouldn't you just shoot as many as you're permitted to cull?

[animalpest]

Bladeracer - if the complaint is the cost of ammo stops shooters from shooting roos then simply shoot as much as you can afford to.

[bigrich]

The roo shooting regulations are stupid . They want them all head shot but in the code of conduct you can still euthanize a wounded roo with a steel bar . Not many armature shooters can afford to shoot a lot of roos on tags anymore . Ammo is too expensive now .

I don’t see how the rules are stupid for setting a humane level of practice for culling.
Maybe armature shooters who don’t have the skills or money to afford ammo shouldn’t be culling in the first place. I don’t mind culling ferals but I have a certain amount of empathy for them and don’t take “iffy” shots.