Batching Brass

[Stix]

I have a heap of brass (once fired) to sort & batch... (as in a bucket full with 3 diff sized cases).

In the past ive just lubed & sized, trimmed, chamfered/deburred, de-burred flash holes, then tumbled & weight sorted.

When ive done this in the past ive either neck sized them if the fit in my rifle, or bumped them back till they chamber in my rifle,...then prepped.

This time however, not all brass will go through my rifle, so my question is...

Once primers are knocked out, is just weight sorting them sufficient enough to get good accurate batches together...?
And is doing primer pockets & de-burr flash holes going to make a big difference...?


(Each different type case is of the same brand)

[SCJ429]

Doing your prep makes a difference, getting rid of that little kernel of brass from the flash hole is a must. After you are done and you are reloading look out for cases that take more force to seat the projectiles. Set those cases aside.

This is a slippery slope Stix. As soon as you start doing a bit of case prep then you are neck turning and using bushing dies. The next thing you are batch sorting projectiles and measuring the pressure used to seat primers.

[Stix]

Lol...thanks scj...
Ive had neck tirning gear for 2 or 3 years now but managed to hold off...& i continue on with that struggle...!!

So what to do wiith these tighter neck ones...?

I fo have that issue with some other brass but dont want to confuse 2 conversations in one thread...

Are suggesting to seat bullets in all brass to further sort for neck tension...?
I like the theory, but is there another less labour intensive way of measuring the given tension/springback in amongst various mixed up batches of the same brand of brass...?

[JimTom]

Mate are you using this brass for comp shooting or hunting?

[JimTom]

Not taking the pi55, just curious mate. Wondering if I should go to the same trouble.

[Stix]

Well jim, Dont laugh...but using it for hunting...

The reason for the questions is i did a test recently with some diff brass.

The brass varied quite a bit in weight (i forget exactly how much just now)...

In general, from memory the brass weighed up to 10 grains difference from current batch, & varied from there maybe another 10 grains spread
...
I did a volume test (very basic with water, as marksman has posted he does it), & to my surprise, the volume was very close to current batch which is completely diff brand & weight...

So the load was very similar--infact could load exaxtly the same for hunting.

So once i had the load using the even weighted brass from middle of batch, i tried that exact load in the 3 lightest & heaviest cases from maybe 80 cases...

The results were (from memory) an inch difference in elevation at 200m.
So for me, thats fine on roos to 200 & a no brainer for foxes out to 300, but is head scratching random hits, misses & woundings on rabbit heads from 200 when in the paddock.

I only shot the two, 3 shot groups so its not like its unarguable scientific hardball testing, but the results were clear with diff in elevation...

So im keen to know how the die-hards batch once fired brass from a big original number of cases.
I want accuracy regardless of hunting or group shooting, but im not knowledgeable enough to know if these finer steps genuniely make the diff for factory chambered rifles...

[SCJ429]

Lol...thanks scj...
Ive had neck tirning gear for 2 or 3 years now but managed to hold off...& i continue on with that struggle...!!

So what to do wiith these tighter neck ones...?
s:

You chuck the ones with excessive tension away.

If you have some turning gear then you could give them all a skim. The thing that will affect accuracy the most is neck tension. Concentrate your efforts there. I use to weight sort cases, now I only do it if I have hundreds of cases to choose from. I find that the weight of the case makes little difference within reason, especially in quality brass like Norma and Lapua.

[GQshayne]

When I did this exercise a while back, I used water to check the case capacities, and found that case weight and volume were relative with the brass I had. I had accumulated a number of brands over the years - PMC, Winchester, Super, WWSuper, Sako, and a few ring ins. In my case I have two .243 rifles, one being a BLR pig hunting rifle, and the other a Tikka LSA55 for longer range stuff on wild dogs etc. So I found which cases were very similar in capacity and batched them together for the Tikka, and used the rest for the BLR.

I found I had enough matched ones not to have to worry about using them all. Could you not do the same?

[JimTom]

Well jim, Dont laugh...but using it for hunting...

The reason for the questions is i did a test recently with some diff brass.

The brass varied quite a bit in weight (i forget exactly how much just now)...

In general, from memory the brass weighed up to 10 grains difference from current batch, & varied from there maybe another 10 grains spread
...
I did a volume test (very basic with water, as marksman has posted he does it), & to my surprise, the volume was very close to current batch which is completely diff brand & weight...

So the load was very similar--infact could load exaxtly the same for hunting.

So once i had the load using the even weighted brass from middle of batch, i tried that exact load in the 3 lightest & heaviest cases from maybe 80 cases...

The results were (from memory) an inch difference in elevation at 200m.
So for me, thats fine on roos to 200 & a no brainer for foxes out to 300, but is head scratching random hits, misses & woundings on rabbit heads from 200 when in the paddock.

I only shot the two, 3 shot groups so its not like its unarguable scientific hardball testing, but the results were clear with diff in elevation...

So im keen to know how the die-hards batch once fired brass from a big original number of cases.
I want accuracy regardless of hunting or group shooting, but im not knowledgeable enough to know if these finer steps genuniely make the diff for factory chambered rifles...

Nah not laughing mate, if you have the time and inclination, there can’t be anything wrong with being more accurate. It is probably a little more effort than I’d go to for a hunting load, nevertheless, each to their own mate, no judgement here.

[Stix]

When I did this exercise a while back, I used water to check the case capacities, and found that case weight and volume were relative with the brass I had. I had accumulated a number of brands over the years - PMC, Winchester, Super, WWSuper, Sako, and a few ring ins. In my case I have two .243 rifles, one being a BLR pig hunting rifle, and the other a Tikka LSA55 for longer range stuff on wild dogs etc. So I found which cases were very similar in capacity and batched them together for the Tikka, and used the rest for the BLR.

I found I had enough matched ones not to have to worry about using them all. Could you not do the same?

Thanks GQshayne...so to be sure, are you suggesting batch them by weight first, then by volume with water....?

How many cases did you end up sorting by volume with water...?...& how many you end ul with in your batch...?

[GQshayne]

When I did this exercise a while back, I used water to check the case capacities, and found that case weight and volume were relative with the brass I had. I had accumulated a number of brands over the years - PMC, Winchester, Super, WWSuper, Sako, and a few ring ins. In my case I have two .243 rifles, one being a BLR pig hunting rifle, and the other a Tikka LSA55 for longer range stuff on wild dogs etc. So I found which cases were very similar in capacity and batched them together for the Tikka, and used the rest for the BLR.

I found I had enough matched ones not to have to worry about using them all. Could you not do the same?

Thanks GQshayne...so to be sure, are you suggesting batch them by weight first, then by volume with water....?

How many cases did you end up sorting by volume with water...?...& how many you end ul with in your batch...?

In my situation, the case weight indicated the volume of water, so heavy cases had less volume. I know that sometimes this is not always going to happen, so that is why I checked them. But I could have used either method with my cases.

Sorting them by volume for me, meant that I worked out what brands were the same as each other. From memory I had two that were identical, which gave me enough cases to help with best accuracy in the Tikka. I only intended to load 50 rounds, and I had plenty for that. The remaining cases of varying brands were used in the BLR.

So on reflection I am not batching cases as you may be, sorting them by precise volume even within each brand. As my rifles are only used for hunting, and the Tikka will shoot MOA that is good enough for me. It may shoot better, but I am not the best shot going around. Target shooting is not my thing.

[nightforcenxs]

wouldnt hurt to do it. i measured the ogive of 1000 projectiles so when i seat them there all exact ive batched them into seperate boxes i think its helped with accuracy so far plus its a part of the shooting adventure to get more accurate so i say go for it.

[bladeracer]

I have a heap of brass (once fired) to sort & batch... (as in a bucket full with 3 diff sized cases).

In the past ive just lubed & sized, trimmed, chamfered/deburred, de-burred flash holes, then tumbled & weight sorted.

When ive done this in the past ive either neck sized them if the fit in my rifle, or bumped them back till they chamber in my rifle,...then prepped.

This time however, not all brass will go through my rifle, so my question is...

Once primers are knocked out, is just weight sorting them sufficient enough to get good accurate batches together...?
And is doing primer pockets & de-burr flash holes going to make a big difference...?


(Each different type case is of the same brand)

I prefer to start with new virgin brass, I certainly wouldn't be trying to build precision loads on once-fired brass.
If I'm using once-fired, I sort them by headstamps, then I run them all through my chamber, and bump any shoulders that need bumping to allow them to chamber. Unless the brass was all fired in your chamber, I think you're wasting your time trying to batch them. They'll all be different sizes according to the chambers they were fire-formed to. I would leave weight/volume batching until you have fire-formed the brass in your chamber so they're all identical, neck-size them, trim them to length - and then do your weight/volume batching.

My first prep before their first load includes cutting the primer pockets to square them up and make them the same depth, and deburring the flash hole (inside and outside) and primer pocket. Using the drill press makes the job less onerous.

I really can't say if the flash holes and pockets make a difference as I do it to all my brass. I figure I only have to do it once in the lifetime of the brass so why shouldn't I just do it. The most I did in one session was 400 .38 Special once-fired I bought on FB, I was getting pretty fed up by the end of those.

[Stix]

I have a heap of brass (once fired) to sort & batch... (as in a bucket full with 3 diff sized cases).

In the past ive just lubed & sized, trimmed, chamfered/deburred, de-burred flash holes, then tumbled & weight sorted.

When ive done this in the past ive either neck sized them if the fit in my rifle, or bumped them back till they chamber in my rifle,...then prepped.

This time however, not all brass will go through my rifle, so my question is...

Once primers are knocked out, is just weight sorting them sufficient enough to get good accurate batches together...?
And is doing primer pockets & de-burr flash holes going to make a big difference...?


(Each different type case is of the same brand)

I prefer to start with new virgin brass, I certainly wouldn't be trying to build precision loads on once-fired brass.
If I'm using once-fired, I sort them by headstamps, then I run them all through my chamber, and bump any shoulders that need bumping to allow them to chamber. Unless the brass was all fired in your chamber, I think you're wasting your time trying to batch them. They'll all be different sizes according to the chambers they were fire-formed to. I would leave weight/volume batching until you have fire-formed the brass in your chamber so they're all identical, neck-size them, trim them to length - and then do your weight/volume batching.

My first prep before their first load includes cutting the primer pockets to square them up and make them the same depth, and deburring the flash hole (inside and outside) and primer pocket. Using the drill press makes the job less onerous.

I really can't say if the flash holes and pockets make a difference as I do it to all my brass. I figure I only have to do it once in the lifetime of the brass so why shouldn't I just do it. The most I did in one session was 400 .38 Special once-fired I bought on FB, I was getting pretty fed up by the end of those.

Thanks Blade...

I probably should have mentioned im pretty sure all of them have been fired in the same chamber.

No, not my rifle, but they do chamber in my rifle & are only a smidge short of my shoulder measurement--so its like ive already bumped them back 1.5 thou.
They are also all the same brand.

[TassieTiger]

wouldnt hurt to do it. i measured the ogive of 1000 projectiles so when i seat them there all exact ive batched them into seperate boxes i think its helped with accuracy so far plus its a part of the shooting adventure to get more accurate so i say go for it.

You measured 1000 ogives? Geeeezzzzus.
Do you also measure neck wall thickness ?

[nightforcenxs]

wouldnt hurt to do it. i measured the ogive of 1000 projectiles so when i seat them there all exact ive batched them into seperate boxes i think its helped with accuracy so far plus its a part of the shooting adventure to get more accurate so i say go for it.

You measured 1000 ogives? Geeeezzzzus.
Do you also measure neck wall thickness ?

yep measured 1000 zmax 168gr 30 cal projectiles i currently dont measure neck wall thickness as i still only shoot a standard tikka t3x but if i was shooting a caliber that required neck turning i would check every case. i check every case after i seat the projectile though i currently bought a le wilson bushing full length die so i can have 3 thou neck tension and bumping the shoulder back 2 thou aswell i do this for my 223 and find the seating to be more consistent

[marksman]

I like to check the volume weight and batch at that, I have stopped just weighing cases
IMHO it is a waste of time checking volume until the cases have been fireformed in your chamber
after fireforming then do your prep and then weigh the volume and sort to your prefered fudge factor
I like my cases say the 30-06 size to be within less than 1/2 a grain different and no more, 22 hornet sized are less than .2 of a grain
and I do try to have the differences better than that

this guy is worth a watch
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bXxxf0iXuio

he does a test on case volume
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Md50fFCeQJE

[marksman]

wouldnt hurt to do it. i measured the ogive of 1000 projectiles so when i seat them there all exact ive batched them into seperate boxes i think its helped with accuracy so far plus its a part of the shooting adventure to get more accurate so i say go for it.

You measured 1000 ogives? Geeeezzzzus.
Do you also measure neck wall thickness ?

yep measured 1000 zmax 168gr 30 cal projectiles i currently dont measure neck wall thickness as i still only shoot a standard tikka t3x but if i was shooting a caliber that required neck turning i would check every case. i check every case after i seat the projectile though i currently bought a le wilson bushing full length die so i can have 3 thou neck tension and bumping the shoulder back 2 thou aswell i do this for my 223 and find the seating to be more consistent

you should be neck turning when using a bushing die

[Stix]

I like to check the volume weight and batch at that, I have stopped just weighing cases
IMHO it is a waste of time checking volume until the cases have been fireformed in your chamber
after fireforming then do your prep and then weigh the volume and sort to your prefered fudge factor
I like my cases say the 30-06 size to be within less than 1/2 a grain different and no more, 22 hornet sized are less than .2 of a grain
and I do try to have the differences better than that

this guy is worth a watch
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bXxxf0iXuio

he does a test on case volume
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Md50fFCeQJE

Thanks marksman...
I would have thought volume testing just for consistancy would be ok if all fired in same rifle... (keeping in mind im not doing it to find max load--just consistant cases).

And in any case i found that the surface tension of water in a 20 cal neck to be tricky in getting water level consistant (if that makes any sense... )

But the thing is, ive literally hundreds of cases (a box thats atleast 100mm x 100mm x 200mm overfull) to get 3 or 4, batches of 50 from...
So, im not going spend the barrel, consumables & time to fireform that many for a couple of hunting batches--l guess hunting accuracy does have its boundaries...lol...

So unless there's a better option, i guess im stuck with weight sorting.

[marksman]

it would be ok if all the cases were shot in one chamber I recon Stix
but the cases still need to be fire formed in your barrels chamber before load testing
I use a syringe to fill the cases from the bottom of the cse up, it helps with getting a consistent fill if that makes any sence

[SCJ429]

Do a little experiment Stix, get all of your cases and set 50 random ones aside as your control, prep the other cases as you usually would, weigh them and fill them up with water and select 50 of the best to do your load testing.

With the 50 control cases, just neck turn them so that it just takes off a skim all the way around. Use a collet die for minimum neck tension, or a bushing die if you have one, and load up the best powder charge you found for your previous brass. Then compare your ES and SD to see what brass prep got you the best results.

[duncan61]

You blokes have got me weighing and batching by brand cases now anyone want 100 or so Win cases in .243.I am prefering the ppu ones