Black powder lube

[Kelsey Cooter]

Lately I've been enjoying watching videos and reading about shooting black powder cartridges. And something I started wondering this morning...

I've always understood you must clean all oils out of a bore before shooting to prevent damage. So why is it ok to put a big smear of black powder lube infront of the projectiles when using black powder cartridges in pistols such as a colt SAA?

[Noisydad]

Lubes for BP are a bit of an art form. Apart from easing the bullets path down the barrel it also has to chemically combine with the large amount of soot that’s generated with each shot. In fact something like 50% of the powder volume becomes soot. If left to build up this stuff will bake hard hard enough to strip lead off bullets and in muzzle loaders will make it impossible to reload in as few as five shots.
The lube and soot brew must be able to absorb moisture from the atmosphere (or your breathe) to remain soft enough to clean out or blow out with the next shot.
Normally, petrochemical ingredients are not good for BP lubes and most folks stuck to more natural components such as beeswax, olive oil, Neatsfoot oil, various animal lards.
Each barrel/ bullet/powder combination is an individual and requires its own lube brew to be formulated. Usually by trial and error and lots of trigger time. A lube that suits one rifle or pistol likely won’t suit another and accuracy and ease of cleaning cleaning will suffer.
I use 5 or 6 lube variations for my BP fleet.

[Oldbloke]

I use 5 or 6 lube variations for my BP fleet.

How about a few recipes Noisy?

[combo12]

Tallow & bees wax 50:50 mix traditional b/p lube. Vaseline & paraffin wax 50:50 mix the modern variant. People also add small amounts of other things to their lube mix according to taste eg graphite. Alchemy more than chemistry imho.

[bigpete]

You need the lube so you can ram your balls nice and deep....

[Kelsey Cooter]

Sorry I don't think I explained my question good enough, but I'm thinking the answer is in your explanation Noisydad.

If leaving oil in a bore can cause a bulge in barrels when using modern powders, why are you able to put a big smear of lube such as Bore Butter infront of a projectile without causing a bulge when using black powder.

Is it because of the more natural components you mentioned?
Or to do with the pressure curve difference?

Another question, what is the actual difference in pressure curve? You can't use smokeless in black powder rifles because of the different pressure curves, but what does modern smokeless powder actually do so differently to black powder?

[Kelsey Cooter]

You need the lube so you can ram your balls nice and deep....

Thanks for the advice bigpete hahaha

[Noisydad]

Velocity will have a lot to do with it. BP produces way lower pressure. Round ball revolvers normally aren’t pushing their balls out anywhere near as fast as white powder pistols.

[bladeracer]

Sorry I don't think I explained my question good enough, but I'm thinking the answer is in your explanation Noisydad.

If leaving oil in a bore can cause a bulge in barrels when using modern powders, why are you able to put a big smear of lube such as Bore Butter infront of a projectile without causing a bulge when using black powder.

Is it because of the more natural components you mentioned?
Or to do with the pressure curve difference?

Another question, what is the actual difference in pressure curve? You can't use smokeless in black powder rifles because of the different pressure curves, but what does modern smokeless powder actually do so differently to black powder?

Because the lube is at the bullet it just adds mass to the bullet. If you leave an air gap by plugging the muzzle with lube for example, you'll compress the air in the barrel and rupture it. You could do the same with smokeless powder and jacketed bullets, but you'd probably want to reduce the load a little due to the extra mass of the projectile (bullet and lube).

[on_one_wheel]

You need the lube so you can ram your balls nice and deep....

[Oldbloke]

I think the readon is two fold.

BP generates lower pressure and velocity.
BP balls are reletively loose in the bore. So the lube has time and space to move out of the way of the ball.

Normal powders generate much higher pressure and velocity. In rifles the bullet is a very tight, press fit.
If there is thick oil or grease in the barrel the bullet is forced out and something has to give. So the barrel stretches beyond its elastic limits as the bullet passes the oil. Result is a bulge

[Noisydad]

Some lube recipes I use;
Wet lube for round ball muzzle loaders...450 ml water, 30 ml dish washing liquid, 60 ml soluble oil (cutting oil). Soak your patches and lightly squeeze them out till they've just stopped dripping. Every reload wipes the bore and the 60th shot is as easy to load as the first. I also use this a general purpose BP cleaner.

For .58 muzzle loaders using Minnie ball bullets...50/50 beeswax and bacon lard. Melt and pour into 1" poly pipe tubes about 3" long, wrap in grease proof baking paper and slather it on the bullets like a chapstick. I've done 30 shot strings with this brew when the humidity was right with no loss of accuracy. Dont leave it in your range box in the sun! I learned that lesson 1...2...3...4...yep four times now!

For my .44-40s.. I use a slight variation of a brew called "Emmerts Lube" (easy to look up). My brew is 5 parts beeswax, 4 parts bacon lard, 1 part Neatsfoot oil. I use it as a pan lube. Very easy to use and great on cracked hands too. I dont use the Lee mold bullets any more - couldn't get them to perform in any lead alloy with any load in either my 1911 built Winny '92 or my Uberti Henry. I now use the Accurate Molds 43-205C bullet. Works great and getting long shot strings using 3P powder that burns a little cleaner...well, at least as clean as BP gets.

For my .40-65 Sharps and .577-.450 Martini Henry bullets I use a brew from a 1943 Rifleman magazine...1 part candle wax (parrafin wax), 1 pard bacon lard, 1/2 part beeswax. It's used as a pan lube. Under the bullets in both rifles is a lube cookie made from 60 grams beeswax, 20 grams bacon lard, 45 grams Neatsfoot oil. This is also made into sticks in my poly pipe lube mold and used in a lube ribbon extruder screwed into one of my presses. It squeezes out a ribbon 3mm x 25mm and the case with powder contained by tight fitting cardboard wads is tipped up and pressed into the lube ribbon and capped with two grease proof baking paper wads. I get very long shot strings of 40 rounds from the Sharps with this very effective combination and neither wipe out the barrels or blow tube them and have still won the last event at 600 yards in our mid range gong comps.

With any wax and lard based lube look the crown of the barrel after the first shot. You should see a splattered star of grease on it. This tells you there's enough lube to make it all the way through. Some bullets such as the Lee mold cant carry enough to do the job. Lots of BP shooters wipe the barrel out after each shot and lots will use a blow tube to put moisture down the barrel. I've never got into the habit of either but maybe should. However, I go to the range to shoot not clean barrels all day though I will wipe out the .44-40s with 2-3 damp patches between events.

[perentie]

Lately I've been enjoying watching videos and reading about shooting black powder cartridges. And something I started wondering this morning...

I've always understood you must clean all oils out of a bore before shooting to prevent damage. So why is it ok to put a big smear of black powder lube infront of the projectiles when using black powder cartridges in pistols such as a colt SAA?

I have been shooting black powder in rifles , pistols and shotguns, cartridge and muzzle loaders for years and have never seen anyone put lube in front of a cartridge loaded bullet.
Yes you put lube in front of a round ball in a percussion revolver such as the Colt, Remington or Ruger Old Army etc . These may look like like a Colt SAA cartridge revolver but are not.
The lube in front of the projectile in the percussion revolver is to prevent any possibility of flame getting past the balls in the unfired chambers and igniting the powder with disasterous results. It also acts as a lube as others mentioned.
A wax lube wad can also be put between the powder and the ball and this method is also used with cartridge guns such as the Colt SAA and rifles. The grooves in cast lead bullets are filled with lube as well either by dip lubing in molten lube or by way of a lube sizer.
Some of us dont use lube on our black powder cartridge rifles for target shooting at all. We wrap our bullets in paper and wipe the bore clean between each shot

[Tank]

Look up SPG lube. If it’s the finest black powder cartridge bullet lube your looking for.....your search ends here.
I use 50/50 olive oil/beeswax for Minié ball, conicals etc and as a grease cookie or to grease wads....but SPG is the king for cartridge rifles.....
Have fun.

[Ron Hawkins]

Hi you need to smear the lube over the loaded cylinder to stop chain fire in cap n ball revolvers.

[perentie]

Hi you need to smear the lube over the loaded cylinder to stop chain fire in cap n ball revolvers.

The original question was regarding black powder cartridge not percussion. I have never seen it used that way with cartridge guns.

[Kelsey Cooter]

The original question was regarding black powder cartridge not percussion. I have never seen it used that way with cartridge guns.

Yeah sounds like I watched to many videos and got it ass about face, now I can't find any videos of them putting lube infront of cartridges.

In terms of cleaning how to cartridge pistols compare to percussion pistols ?

[Tank]

Hi you need to smear the lube over the loaded cylinder to stop chain fire in cap n ball revolvers.

The original question was regarding black powder cartridge not percussion. I have never seen it used that way with cartridge guns.

It’s a modern myth the whole grease over cylinder idea.....and the reason I quit shooting percussion revolvers in competition. You won’t find evidence of it being used back in the day....

[Kelsey Cooter]

It’s a modern myth the whole grease over cylinder idea.....and the reason I quit shooting percussion revolvers in competition. You won’t find evidence of it being used back in the day....

Oh ok thats interesting, I know I've seen it written that that was the traditional way to lube but can't say I looked into it. Why did that being a modern myth cause you to stop using percussion revolvers in competition?

[on_one_wheel]

I've got another patch lube to add to the mix. Someone here might know what it is.

I'm not exactly sure what it is but it's labeled, solvent and patch lube and was sold to me by Green river Rifle Works in SA

It smells like ammonia, is watery, yellow in colour and has soapy feel.

Mystery substance

Screenshot_20190729-203456_Gallery.jpg (461.95 KiB) Viewed 9438 times

I find it definitely keeps the soot soft and I can load all day long without the need for a clean.

Other than that, sometimes I use a beeswax, lard, neatsfoot oil blend ... it's also good on my leather boots, home brew dubbin,
I find it better for pre-lubing patches,

The only other black powder specific thing I've got is another unknown blend "Gun Oil"
Smells like turpentine, is watery, brown in colour and separates into 3 distinct layers when left to rest... I'm guessing oil of some kind, turpentine, and paraffin oil, wax or lard???

20190729_203152.jpg (1.15 MiB) Viewed 9438 times

Screenshot_20190729-203507_Gallery.jpg (475.81 KiB) Viewed 9438 times

[bigpete]

I've got both of them on one wheel

[on_one_wheel]

I've got both of them on one wheel

Hey BP ...
Out of interest, do you know what the recipe of that Green River Rifle Works "Gun oil" is?
It's definitely turpentine and something white which seperates from the turpentine pretty quickly.
I'm guessing it's a water based cutting oil or something.
Any clues?

[No1_49er]

I've got both of them on one wheel

Hey BP ...
Out of interest, do you know what the recipe of that Green River Rifle Works "Gun oil" is?
It's definitely turpentine and something white which seperates from the turpentine pretty quickly.
I'm guessing it's a water based cutting oil or something.
Any clues?

Why don't you ask Green River Rifle Works?
I'm sure that they'd be only too happy to divulge their recipe to the world. After all, why keep proprietary information a secret

[on_one_wheel]

I've got both of them on one wheel

Hey BP ...
Out of interest, do you know what the recipe of that Green River Rifle Works "Gun oil" is?
It's definitely turpentine and something white which seperates from the turpentine pretty quickly.
I'm guessing it's a water based cutting oil or something.
Any clues?

Why don't you ask Green River Rifle Works?
I'm sure that they'd be only too happy to divulge their recipe to the world. After all, why keep proprietary information a secret

Funny thing is ... they probably would've told me If I'd asked, they were preparing to close the doors when I loaded up on all my muzzleloader gear, that could've been about 10 years back?

[Oldbloke]

Moose snot??

Just google "diy gun oil" Dozens of recipes out there

[on_one_wheel]

Moose snot??

Just google "diy gun oil" Dozens of recipes out there

I've searched on and off for years. I've never found a BP gun oil recipe that uses turpentine, nor have I seen one that colour.
Bigpete has said he's got the same stuff... there's a good chance he'll know what it is.

[Oldbloke]

But if your talking oil to store after cleaning BP isn't special. Any oil will do the job.

Only for cleaning or lubing balls its different.

What do you want to use it for?

[on_one_wheel]

But if your talking oil to store after cleaning BP isn't special. Any oil will do the job.

Only for cleaning or lubing balls its different.

What do you want to use it for?

that's not exactly correct, its important NOT to use mineral oil with black powder, secondly... If GRRW was happy to stake their reputation, workmanship and decades of experience on a product, I can assure you it would be the best possible product that could be used for the job.
Its a specialized black powder barrel oil for seasoning and protecting the barrel.
I don't really want to strip my seasoning by messing around with other products.

Today I managed to separate some of the solids from the container, I placed them on paper to soak away the oils and turpentine, Its starting to dry out to look like paraffin wax, the slight brown tint could possibly be some linseed oil?

Again, I'm pretty keen to hear from bigpete, I know he had the same product and being a resourceful fella, there's a good chance he's got it sussed.

[Oldbloke]

"that's not exactly correct, its important NOT to use mineral oil with black powder"

Yeh know that. (not sure why though)

But, don't you clean/dry out the barrel before shooting if it's been in storage? That's what I do.

[on_one_wheel]

"that's not exactly correct, its important NOT to use mineral oil with black powder"

Yeh know that. (not sure why though)

But, don't you clean/dry out the barrel before shooting if it's been in storage? That's what I do.

Mineral oil messes with the powder and would strip the seasoning.
I don't do anything before shooting, the gun oil dries out leaving a layer of magic. (OK... it's more varnish than magic)
Once finished I wash it with hot water, wipe it dry and apply GRRW Gun oil.