Newbie options - for pigs & feral dogs?

[ScottyD]

We've got an issue with pigs and wild dogs coming down through a gully right next to our new house most nights, and I need to sort them out (along with other usual pests like foxes, cats, etc).

I'll be going for my gun licence in the coming weeks and intend to start off with air rifle & 22LR to develop some knowledge and skills (mainly target initially, but then systematically/humanely eliminating the vermin around my place). Although I'm a bit of a noob, I have gone shooting roos & rabbits numerous times in my youth with a mate & his family out near Quirindi (early 1980s), and I was in the reserves for a while.

After I've developed some skills with these small calibre rifles, I plan to get something more serious for the pigs and dogs. I saw the thread about using .222 and I've heard .243 can be ok as well, but would a larger calibre not be more appropriate? (for the pigs I mean, I imagine the same calibre will be more than effective on the dogs)

I'm pretty old school and do love the old SMLEs (Mk4), and have read interesting things about the Winchester Model 70. .308 seems like it could be a useful round. I do like the Marlin 1895 in .45-70, but it seems like it'd be expensive to feed and I wonder if it would be overkill. I've read .30 30 is a popular round for pigs, and the level action is good for quick follow up shots.

Our place is open countryside down around our house/yards, but quickly rises up into mountainous terrain with thickish bush. I guessing something good for midrange would be best.

Anyway looking forward to hearing your suggestions. My apologies if this is covered in another thread I've missed.

[Die Judicii]

We've got an issue with pigs and wild dogs coming down through a gully right next to our new house most nights,

Our place is open countryside down around our house/yards, but quickly rises up into mountainous terrain with thickish bush.

Anyway looking forward to hearing your suggestions..

Welcome Mate,
With a backyard like that, I'd venture to say you will ALWAYS have vermin/feral dogs coming in/down.
You'll never get rid of em,,,,,,,, but good luck trying.

.308 although a bit overkill for dogs will get the job done, also great on pigs, and is readily available and at a reasonable cost (over the counter)

[SCJ429]

I have shot a heap of pigs with a 243 up to 80 kilos or if you want some more grunt there are some 6.5mm options like the 260 which are pretty effective. If you get close enough you could knock down most things with a 222 or 223. Bigger pigs are not ideal for them, how big are the pigs that visit you?

[GQshayne]

I could not say how many pigs I have shot with a .243Win. Started using one in 1985. I do hear people say it is too small for big pigs, but I will disagree. I wonder if they have used a .243 themselves sometimes. I have shot plenty of big pigs with it, many with only one shot. It is also a good choice for dogs, as it has a good trajectory, which 30/30 etc do not have. Good calibre to cover both in my opinion.

[RoginaJack]

Welcome to the forum.
Suggest a 243Win for the pigs and dogs and also foxes. Could be a bit hard on foxes but the skins aren't worth anything nowadays.
For the cats and foxes a 22lr would be handy too.
If you're really keen on the No.4, have a look at a 303/25 or 303/27. Down side expensive ammo, hard to get and you may need to take up reloading...

[ScottyD]

We've got an issue with pigs and wild dogs coming down through a gully right next to our new house most nights,

Our place is open countryside down around our house/yards, but quickly rises up into mountainous terrain with thickish bush.

Anyway looking forward to hearing your suggestions..

Welcome Mate,
With a backyard like that, I'd venture to say you will ALWAYS have vermin/feral dogs coming in/down.
You'll never get rid of em,,,,,,,, but good luck trying.

.308 although a bit overkill for dogs will get the job done, also great on pigs, and is readily available and at a reasonable cost (over the counter)

==
Thanks Die Judicii

Yeah I suspect you're right. They've been getting pretty cheeky of late, causing all sort of trouble. I nearly cleaned a dog up with the car on the way to work early one morning. I'm pretty keen to start thinning their numbers somewhat, especially before we get set up with horses again. Luckily I/we haven't stumbled across any pigs when we've been walking around up in the hills, although I'm pretty sure I heard one making a weird noise on the other side of some bushes one night as I was sitting next to the campfire up on our hill one night.

Looks like at least one vote for the .308 (I've never shot one, but I'm very curious to have a go)

[ScottyD]

I have shot a heap of pigs with a 243 up to 80 kilos or if you want some more grunt there are some 6.5mm options like the 260 which are pretty effective. If you get close enough you could knock down most things with a 222 or 223. Bigger pigs are not ideal for them, how big are the pigs that visit you?

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Thanks for that SJC429

The pigs I could actually see (without my glasses) a couple weeks ago didn't look massive, however my wife went out late one night to shut our dogs up and saw half dozen of them, and one of them was "bloody huge" (her words). I'm told a farmer at the end of our valley recently shot a wild dog and a pig that was over 70kg. So I'm going to go ahead and assume there's some monsters out there and load for the biggest bastard I'm likely to encounter.

6.5, that's pretty much .308 isn't it? I've heard the 6.5 Creedmoore is a good round for long distance accuracy and is reasonably affordable

[ScottyD]

I could not say how many pigs I have shot with a .243Win. Started using one in 1985. I do hear people say it is too small for big pigs, but I will disagree. I wonder if they have used a .243 themselves sometimes. I have shot plenty of big pigs with it, many with only one shot. It is also a good choice for dogs, as it has a good trajectory, which 30/30 etc do not have. Good calibre to cover both in my opinion.

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Cheers GQshayne

There's another nod to the .243. How big would you say the biggest pig was that you shot with that calibre? And can I ask, how quickly did it drop?

[ScottyD]

Welcome to the forum.
Suggest a 243Win for the pigs and dogs and also foxes. Could be a bit hard on foxes but the skins aren't worth anything nowadays.
For the cats and foxes a 22lr would be handy too.
If you're really keen on the No.4, have a look at a 303/25 or 303/27. Down side expensive ammo, hard to get and you may need to take up reloading...

----

Thanks RoginaJack

Well that's another .243 vote, must be something to it.

As I mentioned, I will be starting off with a .22LR (as well as a springer air rifle) to really get my skills honed (economically) at the range and then on the smaller vermin before I start playing in the deeper end of the pool. I think I'm keen to then get something like a .308, but I can see I'm also going to be wanting/needing a calibre in between those extremes. Maybe the .243 could be the one.

Hmmm, but which one first

[deanp100]

Just keep it simple. Your interest in a Winchester model 70 is justified. If you like old school tradition chase up an old model 70 308 and go kill things. Nearly everything from 223 up will serve you well. Some are harder to get ammo for, some are commonplace, some only come in lever actions etc etc . In my opinion for your first bigger banger get a good solid gun you find interesting and learn to use it . A good solid bolt gun designed for field use that you enjoy carrying and you get good with will kill a lot more than some new fangled device that doesn’t quite suit. Ability and confidence trumps most other things

[ScottyD]

As an aside, does anyone have any thoughts on the Bergara BA13 take down rifle? I know its a single shot, but its got me curious. Could be a good be a good option to have in the ute or on a quad bike/backpack whenever I'm playing around/exploring up there. They don't seem overly pricey either (I want to get quality rifles, but I think I'll have to spread that sort of expenditure over a long period of time)

[ScottyD]

Welcome to the forum.
Suggest a 243Win ...snip...

If you're really keen on the No.4, have a look at a 303/25 or 303/27. Down side expensive ammo, hard to get and you may need to take up reloading...

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Ah, expensive ammo might preclude me there. I intend on expending lots of rounds through each rifle. I want to get real familiar with each one before I use it on any animals.

Is .303 ammo pricey?

I'm not adverse to leaning how to load my own ammunition one day. I've heard that it doesn't actually save that much money (after taking into account all the set up costs), but it can give consistently accurate/quality loads. Is this true?

[ScottyD]

Just keep it simple. Your interest in a Winchester model 70 is justified. If you like old school tradition chase up an old model 70 308 and go kill things. Nearly everything from 223 up will serve you well. Some are harder to get ammo for, some are commonplace, some only come in lever actions etc etc . In my opinion for your first bigger banger get a good solid gun you find interesting and learn to use it . A good solid bolt gun designed for field use that you enjoy carrying and you get good with will kill a lot more than some new fangled device that doesn’t quite suit. Ability and confidence trumps most other things

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Hi deanp100

I'm glad someone gave the nod to the Model 70, it does seem a quality rifle and is so beautiful (to me anyway)

Your other comments make sense and are duly noted

Thanks mate

[SCJ429]

The 260 is a 308 case necked down to 6.5mm. It is almost identical in performance to the Creedmoor and the 6.5x55 Swede. While not giant killers they would do the job for you. Many manufactures offer them with a 1:8 twist barrels and they can shoot 140 grain projectiles well.

If it were me starting out I would buy a 222 or 223 and shoot those dogs and pigs in the brain at ranges under 200 metres. Then move up to something bigger if or when you find those Razorbacks running around your place.

[Die Judicii]

how big are the pigs that visit you?

Two legged or Four legged

And,,,,,,,, do they wear uniforms

[duncan61]

plus one for .243W

[SCJ429]

I'm not going there.....

If I was starting out I would stay away from lever actions, big bores like 45/70s and old military rifles. A nice modern bolt action will build confidence and allow you to hit things with precision. Ruger also make a mini Mauser action if you like the look of the control feed M70 Winchester. Ruger have really picked up their act in regards to their barrel making. On this forum, others will tell you about some outstanding results they have had with their Rugers.

[ScottyD]

The 260 is a 308 case necked down to 6.5mm. It is almost identical in performance to the Creedmoor and the 6.5x55 Swede. While not giant killers they would do the job for you. Many manufactures offer them with a 1:8 twist barrels and they can shoot 140 grain projectiles well.

If it were me starting out I would buy a 222 or 223 and shoot those dogs and pigs in the brain at ranges under 200 metres. Then move up to something bigger if or when you find those Razorbacks running around your place.

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Ah, ok then (still got so much to learn about the different calibres & loads )

So would the bigger pigs likely be Razorbacks?

[ScottyD]

plus one for .243W

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Ok, thanks duncan61

Sounds like its settling between the .243 and the .308

[ScottyD]

I'm not going there.....

If I was starting out I would stay away from lever actions, big bores like 45/70s and old military rifles. A nice modern bolt action will build confidence and allow you to hit things with precision. Ruger also make a mini Mauser action if you like the look of the control feed M70 Winchester. Ruger have really picked up their act in regards to their barrel making. On this forum, others will tell you about some outstanding results they have had with their Rugers.

---

Hmmm, it does sound like a simple solid bolt action is going to be the go

I've heard good things about Rugers, although haven't looked at them much yet

[SCJ429]

No, you don't have Razorbacks prowling around. An 80 kilo pig is a pretty big pig for me and I would have no qualms shooting it with a 243. I shot one about this size a while ago with a 7mm Rem Mag and it did not much more damage than I have seen with the 6mm. Of course the extra power is handy for difficult shots or when you don't hit them exactly where you planned to. Keep the ranges sensible and place your shots and the 243 is fine for heart lung or brain shots.

[ScottyD]

No, you don't have Razorbacks prowling around. An 80 kilo pig is a pretty big pig for me and I would have no qualms shooting it with a 243. I shot one about this size a while ago with a 7mm Rem Mag and it did not much more damage than I have seen with the 6mm. Of course the extra power is handy for difficult shots or when you don't hit them exactly where you planned to. Keep the ranges sensible and place your shots and the 243 is fine for heart lung or brain shots.

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OK, that's a big pig so it gives a bit of perspective. Sounds like range would be key if I went the .243 route (just noticed the Model 70 is available in .243 too )

[ScottyD]

Ok, I've just spent most of my nightshift researching the venerable .243

I'm sold, I reckon that's going to be the way to go for me. Now to get my licence out of the way and get on with it all.

Thanks everyone for your insights and guidance. I'll let you know what I wind up with when I finally get to make the purchase.

[bigrich]

For availability and cost of ammo if you don’t reload 308 for pigs would be a good choice and is available in a wide range of rifles. The recoil in most rifles with decent weight is comparable to 303 . 223 is the same for lighter game. For a flat shooting rifle that will do it all a 243 is a good choice, but pick your shots on larger game. My own do all is 6.5x55 but I reload . I own three model 70’s and love them, but if you’re looking for a out of the box no fuss quality rifle with very good accuracy and trigger get a tikka T3 . For the money they are fantastic. A laminate stock for a 308 will have a bit more weight and make it more pleasant to shoot. A synthetic/stainless 243 would be a great carry rifle if you plan on hiking up in the hills. My favourite rifle’s however are timber stocked model 70’s in 222,243 and 6.5x55 (custom build) , that’s just me. We’re spoilt for choice compared to 30-40 years ago , deciding on what you want will be the hardest thing

[bigfellascott]

Just get the 308 cheap to run, ammo's available in every gun shop I've ever been in and a good variety of projectile options too.

KISS!

[SCJ429]

Just get the 308 cheap to run, ammo's available in every gun shop I've ever been in and a good variety of projectile options too.

KISS!

You don't think that the 222 is a good choice for a bloke starting out with his first centrefire?

[bigfellascott]

Just get the 308 cheap to run, ammo's available in every gun shop I've ever been in and a good variety of projectile options too.

KISS!

You don't think that the 222 is a good choice for a bloke starting out with his first centrefire?

No not for use on pigs I don't.

[bigrich]

Just get the 308 cheap to run, ammo's available in every gun shop I've ever been in and a good variety of projectile options too.

KISS!

You don't think that the 222 is a good choice for a bloke starting out with his first centrefire?

No not for use on pigs I don't.

That’s why I suggested 243, bit small for the bigger pigs , if he picks his shots it should get the job done with the right projectiles, but more than adequate for smaller game without developing a accuracy destroying flinch. If he’s new to shooting or hasn’t done it in a long time, 243 is probably a good option and has reach for smaller stuff at distance . Or get a. 223 and a 308

[Archie]

I would say .243 most flexible, although the .223 is more pleasant from a recoil point of view and significantly cheaper to feed. Just a risk that .223 could end up being a bit underpowered for bigger pigs. The ammo I use for my 223 is about 60-70 cents a round from memory, but the 243 stuff is closer to the $2 mark. Depends on exactly what ammo you use of course, but the cost difference does add up over time if you are shooting a lot. One way to look at is, if you shoot 2000 rounds of 223 vs 243, you probably saved enough to buy yourself a new rifle and scope.

If you do go for a .223, be sure and check the twist rate. I have a varmint rifle with a 1:12 twist using light bullets that are perfect for foxes, but you will want something heavier for pigs, and that likely means going for 1:8 sort of thing so you can get accuracy with heavier projectiles.

[bigfellascott]

People go on about recoil way too much I reckon, it's like anything - you soon get used to it if you do it often enough, as for it buggering up your ability to shoot accurately well I guess some will be affected by recoil some won't but I'm sure they will be good enough to get the job done on pigs.

God knows how anyone in the army ever managed to hit the bullseye using larger cal CF's - it's like anything else we do for the first time, at first it's a bit weird and uncomfortable at times but once you do it often it becomes the norm and something you don't really take much notice of.

If the Op's worried about recoil out of a 308 just use the 125gn Sierra Factory ammo or the 130gn TNT speers the recoils quite comfortable using those lighter projectiles in a 308 (heavier projectiles = more felt recoil as a rule) also get a sporting profile barrel not a varmint one for hunting on foot or off-hand shooting and if you are really sensitive to recoil get yourself a good recoil pad of the factory one isn't doing the job, parchmar do good recoil pads as do plenty of others.

Also recoil off a bench rest is different to recoil shooting off-hand in the paddock, something to keep in mind (More noticeable off a bench than it is in a paddock shooting off-hand) and the other factor to consider is you are only shooting 1 shot in general at an animal, not 10, 20 or 30 or more shots like you do at a range so felt recoil and it's after-effects are really non existent compared to shooting at paper targets for hours on end

Same goes for costs of ammo, if you are only taking a hand full of shots a yr cost really does become irrelevant, if you are shooting at a range most weekends well then cost will factor into one's thinking but then again cal is irrelevant if most of your shots are only 100m or 200m at a range, cost would be more of a factor then I would think along with barrel life etc etc etc etc

As usual people way over complicate things - KISS!