NSW firearms registry not calling a spade a spade

[marksman]

just read this and thought I'd share it
http://www.sportingshooter.com.au/lates ... ose-cannon

I especially liked this comment
"Some of the decisions coming out of the NSW Firearms Registry are quite frankly appalling, and one of the major reasons for this is that unlike Registries in other states the NSW Registry does not afford Natural Justice before making a decision.

Natural Justice is the right to a fair hearing, to have an opportunity to present one’s case and for the decision to be made by an unbiased and disinterested decision maker.'

[DownunderDutchman]

I had my dealings with the Victorian branch, years ago when I did l all the paperwork they invented laws to stop me, now I have lived and worked down under for nearly 40 years, sure I still hold an EU passport but when it comes to a shooters license I am no different in the eyes of the law as any other Aussie thats born here as I am a permanent resident. They made up a law to proof I was in Australia legally, thats after I provide every single document showing I paid tax, and driver's license a medicare card, the list goes on. They tried everything to stop me from getting a shooters license. In defence I ask for them to show where on the application I had to proof I was here legally, they never did as it is not stated on there and told me, do as your told! I contacted a lawyer that was connected with a shooting organisation, and even he had never heard of this made up law. He did offer to help after I jumped through every single hoop and if I was still knocked back. At the end I had to get documentation of the migration department showing I was here legally, now that was not that hard, the tricky part was for me to produce a birth certificate, and being on the ass end of the world was tricky, but did get a copy. To add to it all, I dealt with just the one person with a heavy thick Indian accent, it was clear to me he had some dislike for clog wogs LOL. Now to be fair, if I had a criminal record, took fruitloop pills of some sort then yeah I can understand the treatment I got some years ago, but non applied to my case. Now I can put on my tinfoil hat and say ''conspiracy'' to knock back as many applicants as they can in any way possible, and I kinda still feel that way as we all know people with firearms are still looked upon as wrong and we aren't really painted as good peoples in the press. My renewal for my shooters licence is up in 2020 and have this feeling they might again make up some law to knock me back, it would not surprise me.

[pomemax]

DownunderDutchman
are you Naturalised yet I hold an eu passport as well as Australian one ,not hard to do .
On a side note a person i know served some time in the klink for driving offences 2 years deported to the uk on release this guy was in his 50 s owned 3 houses in sydney and had 5 kids and a few grankids was a builder but never married his mrs just lived with her for 30 odd years last thing bloke that put him on plane said to him was should have got Naturalised .He had been in Australia since he was 6

[DownunderDutchman]

DownunderDutchman
are you Naturalised yet I hold an eu passport as well as Australian one ,not hard to do .
On a side note a person i know served some time in the klink for driving offences 2 years deported to the uk on release this guy was in his 50 s owned 3 houses in sydney and had 5 kids and a few grankids was a builder but never married his mrs just lived with her for 30 odd years last thing bloke that put him on plane said to him was should have got Naturalised .He had been in Australia since he was 6

The Dutch government does not allow dual citizenship, and I won't part with the EU passport, sure Australia is my home and would never live in Europe. I don't drink or do anything unlawful for that matter, so no excuse to give me the boot. My older bro did the Aussie thing, and he regrets it now, he tried in vein to get the EU passport again, but they refused, kinda s**ty seeing he was born overseas and they let boat loads of non Dutchies in, cloth them feed them and house them, but that's a subject for some other bitch session LOL.

[TassieTiger]

I think it’s kind of naive to think that what has been presented is not the norm...as pointed out, because it’s firearms, because it’s a privilege - elevated people seem to have to power trip.

[sungazer]

That article all seemed double dutch to me. It seemed to lack a point and any real basis or facts to support the point. Please Explain.

[DownunderDutchman]

That article all seemed double dutch to me. It seemed to lack a point and any real basis or facts to support the point. Please Explain.

I give Dutch language lessons at mates rates

[TassieTiger]

That article all seemed double dutch to me. It seemed to lack a point and any real basis or facts to support the point. Please Explain.

Sounds like your best friend works at the registry lol. Every time someone posts something negative or even questions the registry - it elicits a stand offish response.
It’s pretty straight forward, as was the 365 accuracy pledge.

[sungazer]

Tassie I am being genuine in my response. I looked at the article expecting to find several examples of FAR whatevers. But I was just left after reading it really what was all that about. What is the signing of documents Delegate of Commander got to do with the price of fish. They could be sighed anything for all I care Secretary for the Minister if it is on the letterhead of the office.

So please explain to me in Simple English to me as I am obviously a fool What exactly was he trying to say among all that other fluff about hemorrhoids.

[TassieTiger]

My understanding - The govt in nsw has delegated duties within FAR to people that are either incompetent or not trained or power tripping - as the author is seeing more and more rampantly incorrect decisions - that grind outrightly against a fair hearing...(this is what the author lost the plot on a little but still...)

I see this report as one that further backs up what is being experienced with 365 and as well with Mr Dutchman and similar (who had all their eggs in the correct basket, but still had a licence declined for no valid reason)...

I knew a guy who once worked in marine licensing. A friend of mine was going for his boat licence - he had to pass a practical test on the water and a written test before going to transport Tas (TT)to complete his paperwork. (Same as firearm).
I called up my friend at TT and said, tell my applying friend he was too short to apply as he couldn’t see over the boat screen...

This was obviously a joke - but my applying friend, said...”bugger - darn it” and walked off dejected...
This had me thinking - how many firearm applicants get told something similar by a “delegate” but it’s not a joke and how many ppl just walk away...and I think this article is touching on this.

[marksman]

I had my dealings with the Victorian branch, years ago when I did l all the paperwork they invented laws to stop me, now I have lived and worked down under for nearly 40 years, sure I still hold an EU passport but when it comes to a shooters license I am no different in the eyes of the law as any other Aussie thats born here as I am a permanent resident. They made up a law to proof I was in Australia legally, thats after I provide every single document showing I paid tax, and driver's license a medicare card, the list goes on. They tried everything to stop me from getting a shooters license. In defence I ask for them to show where on the application I had to proof I was here legally, they never did as it is not stated on there and told me, do as your told! I contacted a lawyer that was connected with a shooting organisation, and even he had never heard of this made up law. He did offer to help after I jumped through every single hoop and if I was still knocked back. At the end I had to get documentation of the migration department showing I was here legally, now that was not that hard, the tricky part was for me to produce a birth certificate, and being on the ass end of the world was tricky, but did get a copy. To add to it all, I dealt with just the one person with a heavy thick Indian accent, it was clear to me he had some dislike for clog wogs LOL. Now to be fair, if I had a criminal record, took fruitloop pills of some sort then yeah I can understand the treatment I got some years ago, but non applied to my case. Now I can put on my tinfoil hat and say ''conspiracy'' to knock back as many applicants as they can in any way possible, and I kinda still feel that way as we all know people with firearms are still looked upon as wrong and we aren't really painted as good peoples in the press. My renewal for my shooters licence is up in 2020 and have this feeling they might again make up some law to knock me back, it would not surprise me.

I have a german born farmer friend who around 4 years ago went through the exact same thing in victoria that you did
although he owns property, has bills, a car licence, boat licence, he even had had a gun licence but let it go after the steal back and he has been in australia for over 60 years they wanted proof that he was a permanent resident, with help from the fishers and shooters rep from a country area he got that sorted but no way would they let him have c class for being a primary producer, by then he just gave up
his problem was that being born during ww2 in germany his records were lost so he came over with his parents as a baby, his parents had all their own information but not his,
we also learnt that LRD have changed what was originally on the forms as far as primary identification is
finding this out is why he could get his firearms licence

[DownunderDutchman]

I had my dealings with the Victorian branch, years ago when I did l all the paperwork they invented laws to stop me, now I have lived and worked down under for nearly 40 years, sure I still hold an EU passport but when it comes to a shooters license I am no different in the eyes of the law as any other Aussie thats born here as I am a permanent resident. They made up a law to proof I was in Australia legally, thats after I provide every single document showing I paid tax, and driver's license a medicare card, the list goes on. They tried everything to stop me from getting a shooters license. In defence I ask for them to show where on the application I had to proof I was here legally, they never did as it is not stated on there and told me, do as your told! I contacted a lawyer that was connected with a shooting organisation, and even he had never heard of this made up law. He did offer to help after I jumped through every single hoop and if I was still knocked back. At the end I had to get documentation of the migration department showing I was here legally, now that was not that hard, the tricky part was for me to produce a birth certificate, and being on the ass end of the world was tricky, but did get a copy. To add to it all, I dealt with just the one person with a heavy thick Indian accent, it was clear to me he had some dislike for clog wogs LOL. Now to be fair, if I had a criminal record, took fruitloop pills of some sort then yeah I can understand the treatment I got some years ago, but non applied to my case. Now I can put on my tinfoil hat and say ''conspiracy'' to knock back as many applicants as they can in any way possible, and I kinda still feel that way as we all know people with firearms are still looked upon as wrong and we aren't really painted as good peoples in the press. My renewal for my shooters licence is up in 2020 and have this feeling they might again make up some law to knock me back, it would not surprise me.

I have a german born farmer friend who around 4 years ago went through the exact same thing in victoria that you did
although he owns property, has bills, a car licence, boat licence, he even had had a gun licence but let it go after the steal back and he has been in australia for over 60 years they wanted proof that he was a permanent resident, with help from the fishers and shooters rep from a country area he got that sorted but no way would they let him have c class for being a primary producer, by then he just gave up
his problem was that being born during ww2 in germany his records were lost so he came over with his parents as a baby, his parents had all their own information but not his,
we also learnt that LRD have changed what was originally on the forms as far as primary identification is

The whole thing is a bit of joke, how can you be in country illegally and provide a tax file number? But kinda glad my case was not the only one. I have refrained from becoming a skippy for a few reasons, but have been thinking to book in for the citizen operation as my traveling days are done and in no way want to live in that snowflake paradise Europe, Australia is my home and would not live anywhere else, I am going to have a chat with my bro and old lady to get their input, although the old lady is against giving away your identity, stubborn woman she is LOL

[BluEsky]

.
"Those who are recipients of decisions from the NSW Firearms Registry will note that over recent months, the administrative decisions are titled ‘Delegate of the Commander’."

"A number of shooters have asked me, what this is, and means."

"Under our system of Government, a statutory role is created by Act of Parliament, for example the role of Commissioner of Police. Clearly, the person occupying that lofty office is quite a busy chap, and does not have time to personally consider your matter, or indeed most other decisions made by Police or the bureaucracy under his command, and so the Bureaucrat has a capacity to delegate or authorise others to make that decision."

"Usually in Government, a delegation may be to a Particular level- for example Sergeant’s or above, or Level whatever Clerks or above, to a particular position number that is performing a particular role, or less often to a particular named individual."

Read more at http://www.sportingshooter.com.au/lates ... WU8X52f.99


Delegation is all well and good as long as those tasked with the roll, have the qualifications and experience to perform. It will be interesting to see how this plays out with the New Firearm Museum Regulation changes that were rolled out a few weeks ago.

https://legislation.nsw.gov.au/regulations/2019-427.pdf

[BluEsky]

just read this and thought I'd share it
http://www.sportingshooter.com.au/lates ... ose-cannon

I especially liked this comment
"Some of the decisions coming out of the NSW Firearms Registry are quite frankly appalling, and one of the major reasons for this is that unlike Registries in other states the NSW Registry does not afford Natural Justice before making a decision.

Natural Justice is the right to a fair hearing, to have an opportunity to present one’s case and for the decision to be made by an unbiased and disinterested decision maker.'

Just on my previous Post,On researching further I came across these statements in regards to the New Museum Regulations which appear to conflict with the spirit of the items you have Quoted, have a read and lets hear your views.

.
To Quote.. "Over the past 9 months, the Lithgow Small Arms Factory Museum (LSAFM) was prominent in its opposition to the 2017 Regulation. We argued for the reinstatement of temporary deactivation which existed prior to 2017 along with designated security systems being in place.

We also pointed out inconsistencies in the Regulations and the opportunity for Government to recognise the role of firearms museums.

We fundamentally disagree with the direction of the Amendment. It provides museums with no assurance. It treats them with tokenism and moreover, it does not seize the opportunity to bring positive change to the regulatory environment.

There are many other worrying aspects of the Amendment.

Firstly, permanent deactivation remains the underlying rule of the Amendment.

Secondly, one person (the Police Commissioner) has the absolute power over how a museum operates or doesn’t."

.Basically the 2017 Regulation for Museums states that all pistols, self-loading longarms, sub-machine guns or machine guns are to be rendered permanently inoperable.

Would this in simple terms appear to be the Problem?
The irreversible destruction includes:
•inserting a steel rod traversing the length of the barrel and welding it at the muzzle and chamber;
•welding the barrel to the receiver;
•removing the firing pin and welding the hole;
•removing internal springs;
•welding internal components;
•welding any bolts and external hammers; and
•welding the trigger in a fixed position.

All other firearms, such as bolt action rifles and older antiques, remain temporarily inoperable. But they may well be next in line if this insidious legislation is not overturned. Collectors should also be concerned.



What are the Regulations in other States? Will the NSW Regulation changes have a Domino effect to other States in light of the NFA and it's Uniform Gun Laws?

Read it in Full on the Link below.


http://blog.lithgowsafmuseum.org.au/

[TassieTiger]

Insane. Our history, our relics, our forefathers tools of freedom...being forever ruined due to govt insanity...

[marksman]

I have heard about this and agree it is insidious legislation

thankyou for putting it up

[zhuk]

DownunderDutchman
are you Naturalised yet I hold an eu passport as well as Australian one ,not hard to do .
On a side note a person i know served some time in the klink for driving offences 2 years deported to the uk on release this guy was in his 50 s owned 3 houses in sydney and had 5 kids and a few grankids was a builder but never married his mrs just lived with her for 30 odd years last thing bloke that put him on plane said to him was should have got Naturalised .He had been in Australia since he was 6

The Dutch government does not allow dual citizenship, and I won't part with the EU passport, sure Australia is my home and would never live in Europe. I don't drink or do anything unlawful for that matter, so no excuse to give me the boot. My older bro did the Aussie thing, and he regrets it now, he tried in vein to get the EU passport again, but they refused, kinda s**ty seeing he was born overseas and they let boat loads of non Dutchies in, cloth them feed them and house them, but that's a subject for some other bitch session LOL.

Yep. Friend of mine came out here as a 10 pound Pom in 1959 when he was 4 months old; his father was taken gravely ill while travelling in the US, to be able to get a passport to visit him on his deathbed (and return to the only country he had ever know ie not be refused re-entry to Australia) he had to gain Australian citizenship.

[DownunderDutchman]

DownunderDutchman
are you Naturalised yet I hold an eu passport as well as Australian one ,not hard to do .
On a side note a person i know served some time in the klink for driving offences 2 years deported to the uk on release this guy was in his 50 s owned 3 houses in sydney and had 5 kids and a few grankids was a builder but never married his mrs just lived with her for 30 odd years last thing bloke that put him on plane said to him was should have got Naturalised .He had been in Australia since he was 6

The Dutch government does not allow dual citizenship, and I won't part with the EU passport, sure Australia is my home and would never live in Europe. I don't drink or do anything unlawful for that matter, so no excuse to give me the boot. My older bro did the Aussie thing, and he regrets it now, he tried in vein to get the EU passport again, but they refused, kinda s**ty seeing he was born overseas and they let boat loads of non Dutchies in, cloth them feed them and house them, but that's a subject for some other bitch session LOL.

Yep. Friend of mine came out here as a 10 pound Pom in 1959 when he was 4 months old; his father was taken gravely ill while travelling in the US, to be able to get a passport to visit him on his deathbed (and return to the only country he had ever know ie not be refused re-entry to Australia) he had to gain Australian citizenship.

My last overseas flight was to the Middle East, prior to leaving Melbourne I paid for a ree-entree permit, close to $200, when I went through customs just before boarding the flight, the customs guy took a weird look at my passport, did not think about until I caught my flight back to Australia from Dubai. When I went to board the flight at Dubai they checked my passport and the ree-entree number I was given in my passport did not match what was on the computer. They delayed the flight for a hour whilst they were on the phone to immigration in Australia, talk about a bunch of dumb asses, they charge money for the permit than stuff up the number, I expected a swat team to wait when I landed in Melbourne or at least something due to that stuff up, but walked right through customs without even getting my bags checked. It was near 50c when I left, came back into Melbourne and it was under 10c, but was glad to be home again. After all these years being down under I still don't see a good reason to swear to the UK queen and become an Aussie, there is nothing to gain and sure I won't part with my EU passport.

[sungazer]

@DownunderDutchman mate you got off cheap I just had to buy a resident return visa for my wife $405 it is now. Before June I think it was $385. She is going down the Citizen route as it is about the same cost but + a passport $ However we wanted to travel before the Citizenship would be processed so yep more big $ just to be allowed back. The Gov make money on everything you do, and buy/sell ect

[DownunderDutchman]

@DownunderDutchman mate you got off cheap I just had to buy a resident return visa for my wife $405 it is now. Before June I think it was $385. She is going down the Citizen route as it is about the same cost but + a passport $ However we wanted to travel before the Citizenship would be processed so yep more big $ just to be allowed back. The Gov make money on everything you do, and buy/sell ect

Damn it has gone up heaps! It was over a decade ago since I went overseas, just goes to show how much things have gone up in cost. My travels overseas are done, more than happy to see this great country, although there is plenty of great spots to see in Eastern Victoria, best country on the planet, best state and I live in the best part of the state, well if you are into hunting/camping that is. I had 2 aunties here in 2018 for a holiday, they said Australia is beautiful but they could not function here as they are way to indoctrinated by the EU lifestyle. I have seen many countries, seen alot of Europe, but won't go back there as the whole place is a snowflake haven filled with way to many imports that are taking over, it's the main reason I left Melbourne as parts of that has turned into ghettos as well, still good here in country Vic.

[BluEsky]

Insane. Our history, our relics, our forefathers tools of freedom...being forever ruined due to govt insanity...

Yes It appears that the push over the last few Years to go after the easy to win classes ( those with limited numbers of shooters involved) that the aspects of picking 'Lower Hanging Fruit" sections of the Shooting Sports become evident, for example Lever Actions Ammo Bills, Look alike Black Guns ect. and now this with the Museum Firearms.

This pursuit of the 'Divide and Conquer" method and lack of action and opposition by all those in The Shooting Sports who say 'it does not affect me' so what will it matter, but that enables and emboldens them to continue the rort.

[BluEsky]

just read this and thought I'd share it
http://www.sportingshooter.com.au/lates ... ose-cannon

I especially liked this comment
"Some of the decisions coming out of the NSW Firearms Registry are quite frankly appalling, and one of the major reasons for this is that unlike Registries in other states the NSW Registry does not afford Natural Justice before making a decision.

Natural Justice is the right to a fair hearing, to have an opportunity to present one’s case and for the decision to be made by an unbiased and disinterested decision maker.'

Just read another article in Sporting Shooter Mag. by Neil Jenkins from the National Shooting Council. It questioned the FAR's on their requirements of the Qualifications of Advisors, and asked if ? ..... Unqualified and inexperienced people are in, and they are putting the wrong people in charge of managing our gun laws?

"We recently asked our nations firearm registries what qualifications and experience they have in one of their key tasks – classifying and reclassifying firearms."

Read more at http://www.sportingshooter.com.au/lates ... XHS7elV.99




Try this Link for the Full Article....http://www.sportingshooter.com.au/lates ... sistencies.

[marksman]

I read this myself and have to say it is very disappointing but we all have heard the rumours that you do not get into the firearm registries by being a gun lover
I have great respect for the sporting shooter magazine and its contributors for bringing these things to light
if anyone thinks these registries are there to help they are deluded

[Ricochet]

Just out of interest if anyone here can answer the question, what was the wait time from initial application of a NSW firearms licence to receipt of plastic and or application to hands on firearm before the Edwards shooting?

[TassieTiger]

I read this myself and have to say it is very disappointing but we all have heard the rumours that you do not get into the firearm registries by being a gun lover
I have great respect for the sporting shooter magazine and its contributors for bringing these things to light
if anyone thinks these registries are there to help they are deluded

This was exactly the reason I got behind the 365 issue - it’s power tripping no body’s calling the shots and they need to be held accountable

[sungazer]

I will be accused of having friends or be affiliated with the police or wot not non of that is true. I just try and strip away some of the hype and try and look at the subject objectively. I think this writer exaggerates significantly to illicit the response that Firearm owners are being persecuted. He is probably being paid by the magazine and exaggeration sells. He is as guilty as the rest of the media that beat up stories.

History has shown us that in all the cases of guns being re classified either by appearance or operation that the owners of these guns have been given an exemption and they can continue to own and operate those guns. The new classifications that would apply to the gun do not come into effect until the gun is sold.

I use the examples of the DST Dessert Tacs reclassified under appearance laws in NSW owners still have them. The Adler levers that have a 7 shot magazine still allowed to own and operate as are the current ones still in category A.

I do agree however that the appearance laws in any form are stupid and have no impact on the safety of the public. Reclassification is also more absurd.

[BluEsky]

I will be accused of having friends or be affiliated with the police or wot not non of that is true. I just try and strip away some of the hype and try and look at the subject objectively. I think this writer exaggerates significantly to illicit the response that Firearm owners are being persecuted. He is probably being paid by the magazine and exaggeration sells. He is as guilty as the rest of the media that beat up stories.

History has shown us that in all the cases of guns being re classified either by appearance or operation that the owners of these guns have been given an exemption and they can continue to own and operate those guns. The new classifications that would apply to the gun do not come into effect until the gun is sold.

I use the examples of the DST Dessert Tacs reclassified under appearance laws in NSW owners still have them. The Adler levers that have a 7 shot magazine still allowed to own and operate as are the current ones still in category A.

I do agree however that the appearance laws in any form are stupid and have no impact on the safety of the public. Reclassification is also more absurd.

Well I always take notice when someone of note, who works with Firearms problems and Laws & Regulations within the Legal System 24/7 raises the Flag and gives us all a 'Heads Up', that in his opinion and in his experience all is not going well with aspects of the Shooting Sports and the FAR of recent times, and I fail to note any "significant exaggeration' in any of his articles I have read.
He is one of the few 'Go To Legal Eagles' when one needs advice on Firearms matters, and advises Shooting Bodies on Firearms Matters.
One has only to look at the Threads and Posts in the Australian Gun Laws Forum section on this very Forum to gain an insight of what Members think of the problems and how well they think things are going in this regard.

Also I find to having a caveat imposed upon one's Property that devalues it's total resale $ Value not at all agreeable.

[sungazer]

That property devaluation is a good point and one I think he should of made not of rather that to try and make sensationalist remarks. Of course doing that invokes the passion in people and that is what it is all about.
I dont have a problem with the topic or the argument I just think it should be delivered in a more balanced way rather than lower the standards and resort to the same sort of media delivery that the Antis use.

[BluEsky]

That property devaluation is a good point and one I think he should of made not of rather that to try and make sensationalist remarks. Of course doing that invokes the passion in people and that is what it is all about.
I dont have a problem with the topic or the argument I just think it should be delivered in a more balanced way rather than lower the standards and resort to the same sort of media delivery that the Antis use.

One could say that in this age of Political Correctness gone mad, even what was once considered a mundane remark could now be classed as a World shattering blasphemy.

Your previous statement of" I do agree however that the appearance laws in any form are stupid and have no impact on the safety of the public. Reclassification is also more absurd," is true to a point, but give the Anti's an inch and all Firearms will look like this.

[sungazer]

The really annoying thing about all these organizations crying poor about how hard done by they are but they dont take any action. If all the organizations or even just a few of them united and actually stood up and fronted the politicians like the Gays and Lesbos have we wouldnt have to complain. i read on one of the posts here that there are more shooters than the gay community but look what they have achieved for themselves against a fair number of opposition.