Polishing throats

[Stix]

So...new rifle...

Had a look down it...

What area seen in the barrel appears to be great...!!...however a few scratches in the lead--decent ones too, although this is probably made look a little worse due to the exceptional state of the adjacent barrel.

It was suggested by another guy (who is quite credentialed) that before i fire it, to give it a little polish with some JB or Autosol...

Now one of you kind fella's on here has given me instructions on doing this in the past , based on a rifle having had 600-1000 shots through it...
BUT...
What about a new one where only the lead/(lede) ( ) area needs a little "de-burring"...?

My only concern is that this area is so short in length that i wonder if ill even feel the area that needs to be done, & so i might be unnecessarily polishing that which needs no polishing...?...

Its a 20 cal, so to avoid depper than necessary penetration, would it be worthwhile to use a .22 cal brush with patch, or wind up a few layers of patch on a 20 cal brush...?

Aside from the 'dont do it' camp, any tips on the approach &/or technique...?? ...??...

[grumpy308]

Hi Stix. There is some good information on the Krieger barrels website on barrel break in with particular reference to the reamer marks across the throat. It is in the related topics section under barrel break in procedure. Regards Malcolm.

[Apollo]

Stix's

You can be your own worst enemy.

If you looked at hundred's of freshly chambered barrels you would condem most of them.

Whoever told you there was a problem needs to learn a few things.

Go and shoot the bloody thing, won't be too long and there will be no scratches to be seen. You will see other things that will give you a heart attack the way you are going at present.

If you use the paste's you mention you will create your own next problem, premature wear.....!!

BTW... a scratch on the barrel "leade" is going to have no affect on the bullet nor accuracy. Using cheap bullets is "your" biggest worry....

[bigpete]

Hmmm....so many disgusting thoughts come to.mind......

[marksman]

gunsmith legend Bill Hambley-Clark jnr tells how to polish your bore in his book centrefire rifle accuracy if you have a copy Stix and Nathan Foster from terminal ballistics web site also explains how to do it in one of his books, I think the rifle accurizing one
you will not do any damage using JB or autosol to your bore or throat , I know some very good precision shooters who always polish their throats before shooting for the first time to try and polish the burrs left from chambering
I will have a look for you tomorrow Stix and send there info to you

[Apollo]

So, if using those products will not damage anything, then how is it supposed to fix a scratch. It's not selective breeding, if it's going to do anything to a scratch then it's going to do something to other parts as well. Polishing a bore and/or hand lapping is another thing altogether different.

I haven't read any of those "old fella" methods but I'm pretty sure they aren't practiced these days. I know some National & International Shooters and they don't bother with this sort of rubbish since their Match Grade Barrels are already hand lapped, then it's just a matter of a few rounds down the bore. Most do admit/comment that any imperfections in the chamber reaming will smooth out but will have little affect in the short term.

Stix is not shooting competition so I'll stick with "just go and shoot the bloody thing"... he'll die from worry rather than old age if he keeps up with this nit picking every fault he can see...that doesn't matter two hoots from a factory rifle... Sako or whatever.

Pity the poor Gunsmith if Stix ever had a Custom Rifle made for him, I'm sure there would be numerous faults he could find.... Better pay $10,000 rather than $5,000 for a rifle for the six months it has to be sent back for this or that little mark/fault. FMD.

It's just a Sako....!!!!

[Stix]

Hmmm....so many disgusting thoughts come to.mind......

As long as im not in them Pete, im happy...

[Stix]

Gees Apollo...

Im not picking faults...the advice given to me so far has been voluntarily given with no pressure, & comes from a respetable source after having had a quick gander down the tube...

And apparently polishing the throat is still done by some...

Im told its all about getting a barrel shooting quicker, minimising the fouling & extending its servicable life...

I agree with your thought process about if it takes away a scratch it will wear down other areas--hence the advice searching & looking for tips on what im feeling for etc.

Anyway...
Here, i poured us one each...but i insist...you have both ol'pal...

[Stix]

Thanks Marksman..

[marksman]

So, if using those products will not damage anything, then how is it supposed to fix a scratch. It's not selective breeding, if it's going to do anything to a scratch then it's going to do something to other parts as well. Polishing a bore and/or hand lapping is another thing altogether different.

I haven't read any of those "old fella" methods but I'm pretty sure they aren't practiced these days. I know some National & International Shooters and they don't bother with this sort of rubbish since their Match Grade Barrels are already hand lapped, then it's just a matter of a few rounds down the bore. Most do admit/comment that any imperfections in the chamber reaming will smooth out but will have little affect in the short term.

Stix is not shooting competition so I'll stick with "just go and shoot the bloody thing"... he'll die from worry rather than old age if he keeps up with this nit picking every fault he can see...that doesn't matter two hoots from a factory rifle... Sako or whatever.

Pity the poor Gunsmith if Stix ever had a Custom Rifle made for him, I'm sure there would be numerous faults he could find.... Better pay $10,000 rather than $5,000 for a rifle for the six months it has to be sent back for this or that little mark/fault. FMD.

It's just a Sako....!!!!

aw come on Apollo, ease up
these "old fella" methods might smooth up the scratch in this hand lapped sako barrel just enough that it's not as bad as having the scratch
who are you to know what's wrong with Stix trying to improve you are sounding pretty farken snobby in this post
Stix is a good bloke and has shown that by not taking what you have ranted as personal

[Apollo]

It's okay, he'll give me a hard time next we have a yarn on the phone.

[SCJ429]

I am not a hall of fame shooter but..... I use JB bore paste to polish the throat. I do it to overbore calibers to slow throat erosion. It seems to slow this process and help with fire cracking. You have to be careful not to knock the edges off you lands so I only patch the length of the barrel when I am removing the paste. I do not try and polish past the first couple of inches.

My gunsmith does not agree with my practices but has commented that the fire cracking has not been too bad on calibers like the 243, 7mm Rem Mag or 300/378 Wea Mag.

Could you destroy a barrel by carefully polishing the throat, I am of the opinion that you wouldn't. By the same token I do not think that I could improve the finish of a hand lapped match grade barrel with a bit of bore paste. All I feel it is good for is closing the pores of the steel that have been eroded by combustion.

[marksman]

alright I had quite a bit to read,

I do polish the throats of my bores to get rid of the carbon (HOW DARE YOU GRETA, YOU HAVE STOLEN MY DREAMS ) and before shooting for the first time because I want to smooth out any anomalies left by the reamer but I wanted to make sure what I was going to write is what the authors of the books and not just what I do,

anyway to do this job polishing the throat you would use an old or undersized nylon brush on a coated or graphite cleaning rod with a patch smeared in autosol or JB wrapped around the brush so it is a tight fit in the bore but not to tight that you can't push the patch forward,

you start by first lapping the throat section of the bore lapping back and forwards spanning about 3 inches giving the throat roughly a dozen strokes (24 back and forward), at this point you are removing circumferential reamer marks from when the barrel was chambered, this will help to clear gun dril burrs from the throat and the first section of the bore

I would then extend the area to the length of the barrel stopping 3 inches short of the muzzle for another dozen strokes ( one of the book authors says minimum 50 strokes at least) then I pop the patch out and push some clean patches through soaked in break cleaner to get rid of the black from using the autosol but I dont try and get it all out, it would be impossible

having had borescopes down my match grade bores I know that I am not destroying anything in fact I am getting rid of the carbon ring as well as helping my new barrel run in easier, I have not seen rounding of the lands because of polishing with autosol
I regularly polish the throats of my rifles for the same reason as SCJ429 has put up and have found with a couple of my rifles that after losing accuracy a polish will bring the barrel back to life

here is what some say at benchrest central, its worth a quick read, even barrel maker Wayne Shaw from Shaw barrels gives his perspective on it http://benchrest.com/showthread.php?869 ... the-throat

this is not for everyone I understand that and that's ok, here is what is written in one of the books
"we are not going to be dainty about this, as you might read in some gun magazine article written by M.Y.Armchair. I want you to get in there and give that barrel a good kick in the pants. some foke really get there knickers in a twist about how to pass a jag through a bore, as though it were made of soft wax. if you want to play dolls and tea sets this is not the book for you"

[duncan61]

I bore polished my 26 inch fluted stainless steel barrel on my 7mm Rem Mag it made a difference

[Stix]

alright I had quite a bit to read,

I do polish the throats of my bores to get rid of the carbon (HOW DARE YOU GRETA, YOU HAVE STOLEN MY DREAMS ):

Bloody hell Marksman...
I was wondering WTF you were on about.. .

It was a deep well that coin had to drop down... .

Took its bloody time to get to the bottom...!!..

...but im pleased to say it eventually hit the bottom & the sound waves did finally make their way back up to the surface...

"HOW DARE YOU...!!!..."...

Hence...now i laugh...

The delay made it all the funnier...!!...


I appreciate the time & the info...from yourself & others...

[Stix]

And by the way Apollo...

I meant the ice cubes were for you...!!...not the Scotch ya bastard...!!..

[Apollo]

That's okay, I have a couple of bottles of single malt and don't need anything to water it down.

I'll probably have a couple or so whilst I'm loading some Berger's tomorrow night for my Sako 204R, then in the morning I'll probably setup out on the verandah and check the sighting in for a bit of fun out in the paddock. Been a few Fox's around close to the house of late. Saves on fuel not needing to drive anywhere.

[Stix]

Water it down... ...With Ice...

Mate...If ice waters down your Scotch, you're not drinking it fast enough...!!...

For the most part, the ice is there for the temperature...

You see, Scotch is best consumed at "room temperature"...now unlike our Aussie reds, where room temperature is 15 degrees Celsius or so...room temperature at the distillery in the Motherland of all Motherlands,,.. Scotland,... ( ), is about what we have our fridges set at here in the great southern land...

Drinking spirits at such "room temperatures" as we know it here in our marvelous "free" country, will offer you nothing more than a severe alcomohol burn in the throat, & then right throughout the palette post swallow, & subsequent next few breaths...

To truly savour the complexities of a fine Scotch Whisky, one is best served to drink it "chilled" as we Aussies know it...!!

Having said all that...i just like all my alcohol cold as cold...the only way to drink a beer, nice Scotch, or some toxic North-Eastern European space fuel, is to drink it ice cold...

Now...for a fitting emoji...
...""... ...""...

[on_one_wheel]

Let's not get too technical... next I'll be reading about the debate on round v square ice cubes for whisky.

Oh yeah, 50 buks says your target will have no idea about those scratches in the throat.

Your looking too closely, it's a problem you get when you have an eye for detail and a quest for perfection.

I wouldn't be wearing away more metal away just to make the throat look pretty.

[marksman]

Let's not get too technical... next I'll be reading about the debate on round v square ice cubes for whisky.

Oh yeah, 50 buks says your target will have no idea about those scratches in the throat.

Your looking too closely, it's a problem you get when you have an eye for detail and a quest for perfection.

I wouldn't be wearing away more metal away just to make the throat look pretty.

I'd take that 50 buk bet

and the idea isn't to take away metal

[Stix]

Let's not get too technical... next I'll be reading about the debate on round v square ice cubes for whisky.

Oh yeah, 50 buks says your target will have no idea about those scratches in the throat.

Your looking too closely, it's a problem you get when you have an eye for detail and a quest for perfection.

I wouldn't be wearing away more metal away just to make the throat look pretty.

There is NO debate about the shape of ice cubes...

You see, drinking Scotch is an experience for the senses...so for complete sensory pleasure, only cubed/square edged ice is capable of delivering that bright "tinkaling klink-a-bink" to our ears to give us a total sensory experience, no matter whether your cup is glass or crystal...

If you have a natural attraction to round ice cubes, its most likely your a lost soul looking for his place in the world who likes drinking Southern Comfort...

[TassieTiger]

Polishing throats in some searches comes up with some interesting and a lil disturbing porn...
Nevertheless - in relation to scotch, I’ll just leave this here...it’s pretty funny.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=frRonhQdRdQ

[on_one_wheel]

Let's not get too technical... next I'll be reading about the debate on round v square ice cubes for whisky.

Oh yeah, 50 buks says your target will have no idea about those scratches in the throat.

Your looking too closely, it's a problem you get when you have an eye for detail and a quest for perfection.

I wouldn't be wearing away more metal away just to make the throat look pretty.

I'd take that 50 buk bet

and the idea isn't to take away metal

It's simply impossible to polish away scratches without removing metal

[on_one_wheel]

Let's not get too technical... next I'll be reading about the debate on round v square ice cubes for whisky.

Oh yeah, 50 buks says your target will have no idea about those scratches in the throat.

Your looking too closely, it's a problem you get when you have an eye for detail and a quest for perfection.

I wouldn't be wearing away more metal away just to make the throat look pretty.

There is NO debate about the shape of ice cubes...

You see, drinking Scotch is an experience for the senses...so for complete sensory pleasure, only cubed/square edged ice is capable of delivering that bright "tinkaling klink-a-bink" to our ears to give us a total sensory experience, no matter whether your cup is glass or crystal...

If you have a natural attraction to round ice cubes, its most likely your a lost soul looking for his place in the world who likes drinking Southern Comfort...

While it can be refreshing on ice, Personally the only whisky I keep on the bar is so smooth it doesn't need ice to make it palatable.
When I do break out the ice, it's in cubes. I'll leave those balls for the hipsters


I've got a 70% abv whisky from a micro distillery in the Adelaide hills that's only available to those who know the secret handshake in my decanter. It's considered extremely smooth by seasoned drinkers.
It's spent most of its life on American oak and short time on French oak, It's almost as sweet liqueur despite having no artificial flavoring (or colouring), a result of using nothing but the finest oaks. That's something most of those expensive high end distillers can't lay claim to
Perhaps swabbing some through that rough bore might smooth it out

Check out that colour.

20191013_093550.jpg (264.75 KiB) Viewed 8292 times

[Stix]

Let's not get too technical... next I'll be reading about the debate on round v square ice cubes for whisky.

Oh yeah, 50 buks says your target will have no idea about those scratches in the throat.

Your looking too closely, it's a problem you get when you have an eye for detail and a quest for perfection.

I wouldn't be wearing away more metal away just to make the throat look pretty.

There is NO debate about the shape of ice cubes...

You see, drinking Scotch is an experience for the senses...so for complete sensory pleasure, only cubed/square edged ice is capable of delivering that bright "tinkaling klink-a-bink" to our ears to give us a total sensory experience, no matter whether your cup is glass or crystal...

If you have a natural attraction to round ice cubes, its most likely your a lost soul looking for his place in the world who likes drinking Southern Comfort...

While it can be refreshing on ice, Personally the only whisky I keep on the bar is so smooth it doesn't need ice to make it palatable.
When I do break out the ice, it's in cubes. I'll leave those balls for the hipsters


I've got a 70% abv whisky from a micro distillery in the Adelaide hills that's only available to those who know the secret handshake in my decanter. It's considered extremely smooth by seasoned drinkers.
It's spent most of its life on American oak and short time on French oak, It's almost as sweet liqueur despite having no artificial flavoring (or colouring), a result of using nothing but the finest oaks. That's something most of those expensive high end distillers can't lay claim to
Perhaps swabbing some through that rough bore might smooth it out

20191013_093550.jpg

Yea ok...!!

Ill swab some through the bore...id rather a glass...but if you'll only let me drink it through a 20 cal barrel, il in...

Surely you chill it first...
Drinking 70% anything abv spirit is sure to give you 90% alcohol burn & 10% taste at our room temps ...

[on_one_wheel]

Yea ok...!!

Ill swab some through the bore...id rather a glass...but if you'll only let me drink it through a 20 cal barrel, il in...

Surely you chill it first...
Drinking 70% anything abv spirit is sure to give you 90% alcohol burn & 10% taste at our room temps ...

That's normally the case with rubbish made by distillers with a greedy eye on profits where you get a dose of harsh tasting fore shots in your liquor.

You can blast shooters of this stuff at room temperature no problem.

There's nothing quite like liquor made from the finest cuts, Just the hearts, no fore shots, no heads, no tails ... just the ultra smooth stuff in the middle.

It's methanol and fore shots that give you the harsh alcohol burn.

[marksman]

Let's not get too technical... next I'll be reading about the debate on round v square ice cubes for whisky.

Oh yeah, 50 buks says your target will have no idea about those scratches in the throat.

Your looking too closely, it's a problem you get when you have an eye for detail and a quest for perfection.

I wouldn't be wearing away more metal away just to make the throat look pretty.

I'd take that 50 buk bet

and the idea isn't to take away metal

It's simply impossible to polish away scratches without removing metal

but you are not going to try to polish away the scratch
no different to running in a bore the idea is to smooth the rough edge of a drilling burr or burrs made from chambering (or the scratch) to minimise the effect of ripping the projectile jacket as it passes the scratch that unstabilizes it after it leaves the muzzle,
the effect being similar to an unbalanced wheel on your car causing a bigger group so the target does know the difference
the reason why rifle bores (especially factory) can take quite a few shots to settle down before you get the best precision from them
I also reckon you would be there for a very long time using autosol to polish out a scratch, near impossible
and is the reason metal polishers use sandpaper to flatten out scratches before polishing
prepping your barrel before shooting it is not a bad idea at all
if it were barrel makers would not hand lap a bore which nobody would disagree makes a barrel better

[sungazer]

Any gunsmith that doesn't inspect his work after its done is not doing his job. When the chamber is cut correctly it is near a mirror finish and is often give a small wet and dry to take that perfect finish of the chamber walls to give the case some grip against it.
I agree with the polishing the throat with a bore paste / autosol but for slightly different reasons. The reason I will do it is to remove carbon. i dont want a carbon ring to build up or any carbon to build up that may be taken off by a passing bullet. There is always a chance that a small piece of metal may go with that bit of carbon that had attached itself to the metal in the first place. The very high heat and pressure just creates a extremely strong ceramic and a bond to the metal that perhaps can not be broken. The bond may be stronger than the bond the metal has to itself.
I am not sure what creates the fire cracking in the throat the above is one of the theories I have read. One thing that is not in dispute is the fire cracking it can be seen and also parts of the lands can be broken off as seen by a bore scope. I believe by keeping the barrel clean from any build up of carbon reduces the onset of the fire cracking and wear in the barrel. It may be a what is the lesser of two evils when it comes down to wear of the barrel the bore paste cleaning or the build up of carbon.