NSW Bushfires the result of climate change

[bigfellascott]

I just shake my head when I hear crap like this, apparently reducing carbon emissions will help fix the fires in yrs to come! I guess we should be grateful that climate change isn't affecting the rest of the country hey or it would be on fire too!

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/nation ... b526ca224f

[bigfellascott]

And heres the solution but will it be implemented - not in your f***ing life it won't be!

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... ia-burning

[Member-Deleted]

Yes BFS I agree and isn't it amazing how fire won't burn out of control when there's not 15yrs of fuel on the ground cool fires are good for germination of seed and entices growth in most of Australian bush also back burning fires with years of fuel on the ground is fraught with danger exactly as we've seen on the news today 5-10 yrs ground cover was why the fires up here last year were so bad farmers not being able to clear bush tracks and control burn gullies between farms when the weather is right but nah blame it on global warming is the fad of the moment I wonder if the next loss in government is blamed on global warming or the reason labour can't get into power yep global warming gotta be

[deye243]

The only truth about a bush fire is it won't bloody burn without fuel load ......

So these d**kheads didn't learn a thing about our fires 10+ years ago they were a lot worse than these are now ......

[straightshooter]

I am old enough to remember all the early 'tree hugging' propaganda... trees are the lungs of our planet etc.. blah blah.
So if you have an accumulating build up of easily combustible fuel sooner or later what happens?
BUT what the CO2 abhorring simpletons don't grasp is that decomposing forest litter produces CO2.
Left alone it happens slowly, with fire it happens quickly.
One way or the other it happens.

[Bill]

Bush fires and drought are part of this countries DNA, whats lacking is a cohesive dialogue between the Feds and States over ways to deal with fires.

We should have put together a Squadron of 12 Hercules fire retardant bombers a long time ago.

Base them in Alice Springs or Broken Hill, moth balled but ready to go any summer. Wouldnt have cost alot either.

[bigfellascott]

Bush fires and drought are part of this countries DNA, whats lacking is a cohesive dialogue between the Feds and States over ways to deal with fires.

We should have put together a Squadron of 12 Hercules fire retardant bombers a long time ago.

Base them in Alice Springs or Broken Hill, moth balled but ready to go any summer. Wouldnt have cost alot either.

Too right Bill. I was speaking to one of the firefighters here who's been in the RFB for around 40yrs or so and he was saying that the NP mob won't fight fires that aren't in the national parks, the other mob who look after the pine forests didn't want to know about fires that weren't in the pines and none of them wanted to make any real decisions because they weren't allowed to as it all has to come from HO and if they did make a decision and it went wrong they could be sued.

We had perfect weather conditions here to do a backburn that would have prevented the "Mega Fire" but they weren't allowed to do it, end result the "Mega Fire" ol mate was right royally pissed off about it all as he knew what would happen and knows all that area very well and knows where all the tracks and containment lines are and what's the best way to burn that area so it's still in control, it basically wouldn't of happened and would have been out a good week or so ago if he was allowed to act instead of being told what to do by some numbnuts in an air conditioned building with screens and phones to guide him.

[bigrich]

Growing up in Queensland I remember up until about 25 years ago hazard reduction burns were being done. It was all stopped because of the greens

Now some morons claim they have the solution, hazard reduction burns in winter, when it’s cold. FFS , I wonder how many of these idiots are going to take credit for something that was being done up until 25 years ago

I saw on the news the Murray basin plan hasn’t been stopped either ....

[flutch]

TECHNICALLY, Technically, If they want to blame anything for it we can thank the Aborigines. After they killed off the Mega Fauna the remaining lush forests rapidly declined into the eucalyptus dominated bush land we are used to now, their fires also didn't help. combination of a loss of canopy bearing trees, micro climates therein and subsequent rainfall combined with unseasonable fires (lit by humans), caused the mass erosion of some areas that further affected rainfall. its nothing to do with "climate change" but it is in part to blame on mankind.

[bigrich]

TECHNICALLY, Technically, If they want to blame anything for it we can thank the Aborigines. After they killed off the Mega Fauna the remaining lush forests rapidly declined into the eucalyptus dominated bush land we are used to now, their fires also didn't help. combination of a loss of canopy bearing trees, micro climates therein and subsequent rainfall combined with unseasonable fires (lit by humans), caused the mass erosion of some areas that further affected rainfall. its nothing to do with "climate change" but it is in part to blame on mankind.

Yup , that’s about it

[Archie]

Of course climate change doesn't cause fires itself, and of course with no fuel load things wouldn't burn. All that's true.

But I'm told the soil moisture readings at my place are the lowest they've been in the last 44 years, which is as far back as the guy who told me has records. If we are getting hot days more frequently then what fuel there is, is more prone to burn because it's that much drier, so embers become more of a problem and the fires just get bigger because increases the chance that embers take hold.

Everyone keeps saying we've always had droughts, and that's true, but the severity of them does seem to be getting a lot worse - covering more area, lasting for longer. You can't just say, it's not the climate, its the lack of back-burning thats leading to the fire problem. Truth is, it's probably both. Reducing CO2 won't make any difference to the fuel load that's available. Increasing back-burning will cut the fuel load in target areas but it won't stop what's left being drier and more likely to catch.

Totally agree though that the national water/retardant-bomber fleet needs to be much, much bigger. Should have been done after the 09 fires.

[SckSqzBngBlo]

The sceptic in me suggests the hazard reduction stopped when they realised a few mega fires would help cement the climate change cause down the track.

[Ricochet]

Whats happening now is all the fault of the greens party. We are always going to have bushfires but with severely restricted back burning or none at all thanks to the greens the fuel lading is off the charts and now we get raging monsters that kill all the seeds and bacteria that help the bush live its cycle.

[trekin]

I'll just drop this little clanger here;
https://www.skynews.com.au/details/_611 ... gwgZgn84ec

[on_one_wheel]

I'll just drop this little clanger here;
https://www.skynews.com.au/details/_611 ... gwgZgn84ec

Militant feminism

[flutch]

Of course climate change doesn't cause fires itself, and of course with no fuel load things wouldn't burn. All that's true.

But I'm told the soil moisture readings at my place are the lowest they've been in the last 44 years, which is as far back as the guy who told me has records. If we are getting hot days more frequently then what fuel there is, is more prone to burn because it's that much drier, so embers become more of a problem and the fires just get bigger because increases the chance that embers take hold.

Everyone keeps saying we've always had droughts, and that's true, but the severity of them does seem to be getting a lot worse - covering more area, lasting for longer. You can't just say, it's not the climate, its the lack of back-burning thats leading to the fire problem. Truth is, it's probably both. Reducing CO2 won't make any difference to the fuel load that's available. Increasing back-burning will cut the fuel load in target areas but it won't stop what's left being drier and more likely to catch.

Totally agree though that the national water/retardant-bomber fleet needs to be much, much bigger. Should have been done after the 09 fires.

Soil might at its driest at your place but its not everywhere else, drought in Australia isn't a new phenomenon, and neither is the abuse of the artesian basin and aquifer, the use of ground water greatly decreases the saturation of the soil at the topsoil level. the drilling and use of water doesn't need to be in your backyard, the bigger the aquifer the larger the distance can potentially be from your place where the drainage is taking place. Deforestation is a major issue. and the "irreversible" effect from the removal of mega fauna and other plant species as a result, is cause for exponential and exaggeratedly large swings in drought behaviour across the continent, a low biomass means low relative humidity, its this low humidity that deters rain and allows for the drier air to readily carry moisture away from a place rather than encourage more moisture to be deposited. these effects were well in effect long before industrialisation and it simple cannot be blamed for it, to do so is to completely ignore the real cause and is 100% counter productive, a concerted effort needs to be put in place to increase water deposits, increase vegetation and especially large evergreen trees that provide canopies. as that is the building blocks for productive and long lasting forests that then contribute to atmospheric humidity and therefore contribute to rainfall.

[bigfellascott]

I wonder what man made carbon pollution caused this little doozey of a heatwave - I think the problem with people today is they step outside their little air conditioned world and go fark its hot out here never used to be this hot when I was a kid.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... TnVDizeoyQ

[bigfellascott]

Some interesting Australian Fire History, seems our recent fires are rather insignificant in to some that have happened well before all this global crap was trendy and used as an excuse for everything that is happening today, "Unprecedented" my f***ing arse! Yet again the alarmists are caught out lying!

http://romseyaustralia.com/firesum.html

[bigfellascott]

What's the bet this is all leading up to some sort of "fire levy" being applied to every australian household in the not to distant furture.

[Stix]

The sceptic in me suggests the hazard reduction stopped when they realised a few mega fires would help cement the climate change cause down the track.

Sceptical...

Nothing to be sceptical about mate...

The govt need more money...once we're so utterly stupid enough to let them tax us on the water that falls on our land, its inevitable we'll be taxed on the parts per million of various compounds in the air, ...we're screwed...

Can you think of a more convincing way to better make that tax become a reality than how its unfolding--or should i say unfolded...?

And it gets me how people build a house in heavy woodland, & ACTUALLY BELIEVE they're hard done by when their house burns down, because of climate change...FFS...for sure its unfortunate...but fair dinkum...

Maybe climate change is the reason sharks bite people in the ocean too...!!!... i mean its not as if a surfer in a wetsuit looks like a bloody seal...ffs...
Idiots...

And now farms have apoarently lost 35 % in value today because of climate change...

I just checked real estate dot com & cant see any 35% reductions because climate change caused todays national average temp to be increased by a tenth the width of a nats cock hair...

Fukn idiots i tell ya...!!

[Stix]

What's the bet this is all leading up to some sort of "fire levy" being applied to every australian household in the not to distant furture.

We already have one here...called "ESL"___Emergency Services Levy...goes to MFS, CFS SES etc etc...

Surely you already have something like that over there....

[bigfellascott]

We already have one here...called "ESL"___Emergency Services Levy...goes to MFS, CFS SES etc etc...

Surely you already have something like that over there....

Probably do but this will be one of those one off special taxes oh sorry Levy to help with future bushfires that will all be known as catastrophic until they upgrade that saying to something even more severe (where that will end is anyones guess) anyway I'm sure it will be some sort of "Temporary" thing but as we know once they get introduced they very rarely ever leave.

[bigfellascott]

Sceptical...

Nothing to be sceptical about mate...

The govt need more money...once we're so utterly stupid enough to let them tax us on the water that falls on our land, its inevitable we'll be taxed on the parts per million of various compounds in the air, ...we're screwed...

Can you think of a more convincing way to better make that tax become a reality than how its unfolding--or should i say unfolded...?

And it gets me how people build a house in heavy woodland, & ACTUALLY BELIEVE they're hard done by when their house burns down, because of climate change...FFS...for sure its unfortunate...but fair dinkum...

Maybe climate change is the reason sharks bite people in the ocean too...!!!... i mean its not as if a surfer in a wetsuit looks like a bloody seal...ffs...
Idiots...

And now farms have apoarently lost 35 % in value today because of climate change...

I just checked real estate dot com & cant see any 35% reductions because climate change caused todays national average temp to be increased by a tenth the width of a nats cock hair...

Fukn idiots i tell ya...!!

Spot on Stix, this s**t isn't rocket science it's just common sense which is sadly lacking these days. As my mate said today get 2 ovens and set one at 150deg and put a piece of paper in it get another oven and set it to 400deg and don't put anything in it, see which one burns first! low fuel levels mean low burns, high fuel levels mean high burns no diff to putting more wood in a wood heater, more wood in means more heat out - simples!

[Lucerne]

I fly fixed wing bombers for a living and I have never seen such a mountain of fuel available to fires as there is at the moment. When speaking to RFS personnel pre-season a lot were saying that this season won't be too bad as there won't be any grass fires this year because of the drought. I was literally horrified.

As for the season starting early, it actually didn't. Fires in the Northern Rivers area of NSW in July aren't uncommon after a dry winter.

[bigfellascott]

I fly fixed wing bombers for a living and I have never seen such a mountain of fuel available to fires as there is at the moment. When speaking to RFS personnel pre-season a lot were saying that this season won't be too bad as there won't be any grass fires this year because of the drought. I was literally horrified.

As for the season starting early, it actually didn't. Fires in the Northern Rivers area of NSW in July aren't uncommon after a dry winter.

Yeah they love bullshitting to us, Every season it's always going to be serious or Catastrophic, same thing happens in Winter with the new "Polar Vortex" catch phrase to scare everyone, in reality they aren't any diff to any other year gone before them, sure you might have a few extra fires or heavier snow falls but they aren't world ending as they try and make out (they have to dramatize everything these days to keep the $$ flowing in via the advertising revenue) hence why everything is over hyped and dramatized so much, people thrive on drama and the media know it and they play on it for their own personal financial gain.

The good thing to come out of these fires is those areas that have been burnt wont have to worry about "Catastrophic" fire conditions for many years to come, those places that haven't been burn, well that's a different story and no doubt will make the news one day!

The sad fact is none of this every has to get to this level if they'd just learn to burn off in the better times, the fires aren't as intense then, no crowning etc, just a nice gentle burn to help control the fuel load, but cos they have no balls and everything they do is controlled by the latest poll we will forever have this problem it really is that simple, more fuel equals more intense and destructive fires, if you want to fix the problem you keep the fuel load down! that way the fires can never get this bad, until they learn that lesson burn baby burn I say!

[poid]

The media will take every chance they get to up the rhetoric and make extremist claims. The use terms like "mega fire" to subtly influence public opinion that this is all somehow 'unprecedented' and all our fault. Can't let the actual facts like fuel loads and backburning get in the way of the rhetoric.

Claims like "first time EVER Sydney faces Catastrophic fire danger"...Catastrophic was only implemented a decade ago, so this again is subtle and a lie by omission to influence public opinion. You can pick up countless claims like this, and as the media is an echo chamber other voices aren't heard. I had a colleague yesterday talk about the "idiocy" of blaming greenies and lack of backburning when it was clearly climate change!

The aim: to make everyone believe that this is all our fault, and to make amends we have to sacrifice and hand over our money. No different to any other religious belief throughout history; the greens and lefties have simply substituted a traditional god for Gaia and they don't even understand that they have done so.

[bigfellascott]

The media will take every chance they get to up the rhetoric and make extremist claims. The use terms like "mega fire" to subtly influence public opinion that this is all somehow 'unprecedented' and all our fault. Can't let the actual facts like fuel loads and backburning get in the way of the rhetoric.

Claims like "first time EVER Sydney faces Catastrophic fire danger"...Catastrophic was only implemented a decade ago, so this again is subtle and a lie by omission to influence public opinion. You can pick up countless claims like this, and as the media is an echo chamber other voices aren't heard. I had a colleague yesterday talk about the "idiocy" of blaming greenies and lack of backburning when it was clearly climate change!

The aim: to make everyone believe that this is all our fault, and to make amends we have to sacrifice and hand over our money. No different to any other religious belief throughout history; the greens and lefties have simply substituted a traditional god for Gaia and they don't even understand that they have done so.

Spot on mate, I'm sure they will start blaming peoples mental health issues on Climate Change soon too, I'm sure someone will come up with some fanciful link to why it is so.

[Stix]

Ok...so...spoke with a farmer over here & he had a fire burn out a patch of scrub on his block...thankfully everything is ok, except for loosing a patch of mallee scrub...

But one thing to note, & i think is a valid point of discussion, is this...

With these verbs used in extreme terms to describe these fires & the weather now-such as "catastrophic" etc etc.,-which is all to sensationalise the topic & create a fear...the clever gen Y & Z's that are excercising their power, along with the last of the baby boomers & gen Gen X's who forfeited their right to think for themselves, bring these fire restrictions in earlier each year...

Now, yes im a city boy, but i grew up chasing furry creatures out bush & learned to shoot, hunt, & appreciate the bush at a very ripe early age, & i seem to remember farmers burning off areas,& ripping & burning smaller perimeters...
But when the fire bans kick in earlier each year due to these preemptive "Catastrophic" times we are going to have, the undergrowth is still green, & a fire to burn off wont take hold...i know this for fact having seen it, & been involved in extinguishing what would have been a disaster bush fire, had it not been for the undergrowth being green in early october a few years ago...(this green undergrowth being, if you look at the grasses that have effectively "headed" and are dry, under them at ground level is a small amount of late blooming grasses that are still green, & without the aid of a stiff wind, a fire cannot generate enough heat to start a grass fire that rapidly becomes out of control...)...

So whats with this...???...
Local & State Govts filled with uni graduates who have quoted phrases out of text books for four years which then deems them officially "qualified" to override farmers, deem farmers too stupid to mitigate their own fire breaks--farmers that have been on the land & have generations of wisdom & actual working knowledge of their environment, & deem they are smarter in preventing these "stupid farmers" from starting a bush fire by way of stupid regulations, as well as not carry out actual necessary preventative measures, allow people to build in heavily wooded areas for extra income from rates & development approvals, while also making it ridiculously hard for these new home owners to fell a few trees that will potentially prevent a fire destroying a dwelling...

Ive babbled on a bit there & its probably hard to read fluently, but im sure you get my drift when i say, it seems this "climate change" bullsh!t is self propelling & self prophesying...

I do wonder if common sense, and "what is right", will ever be the dominating belief of us humans again...or if the self-righteous need for, & to exercise power will be the cause of our own self destruction...

[Bugman]

Let's not forget the likes of Bob Carr who shut out the national parks, thus no one could gain access and this let to fire trails not being maintained, and the immense build up of scrub, old timber etc that really has fueled these current fires.
Also I hear no constructive responses from the Greens about this situation....as usual there silence is deafening.
What do expect from the "re-badged" communist party.

[Member-Deleted]

Yes BFS I think a levy will be forth coming the fire fighters are demanding more fighters and money to do their job better and safely so the government will up the levy in areas already paying one and implement one where there's not we've had a fire levy for 25yrs up here paid through our house rates