Tikka T# 22-250 wont shoot

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Tikka T# 22-250 wont shoot

Post by Stix » 28 Dec 2019, 6:24 pm

Just transferring some info over to a dedicated thread for this rifle...
Ill update it as i get time to play with the rifle...

So...i have a T# in 22*250 that i cant get better than an inch out of...
It has a great barrel...
All stock...
Only wound the trigger back, not changed factory spring...

Tried 50 Z/Vmax, Sierra 55 Game King (SuperRoo), 62 Gr TAP, Winchester 45 HP (cheap rubbish bullet), and Speer 50 HP flat base.
All with mostly 2208 accross the entire ADI spectrum & beyond...
Tested from 10 thou off, to a big jump...
Shooting Fed Match primer, with Remington/ R-P weight sorted brass...

All results are the same...groups to or within an inch...
It will appear there are sweet spots, but they cannot be repeated, even with annealed brass & careful charging...

I suspect the brass is the culprit...can feel the tension differences are quite significant from case to case when seating bullets...
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Re: Tikka T# 22-250 wont shoot

Post by Stix » 28 Dec 2019, 6:25 pm

marksman wrote:l dont own one but have tweaked a few that did turn out shooters
like any factory rifle with tweaking they can turn out very good
some tikka's are good straight from the box, a lot of that is your expectation though
what the tikkas have going for them is the hand lapped barrel
and they have turned into a better plumbers rifle than the remington :drinks:
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Re: Tikka T# 22-250 wont shoot

Post by Stix » 28 Dec 2019, 6:26 pm

marksman wrote:l dont own one but have tweaked a few that did turn out shooters
like any factory rifle with tweaking they can turn out very good
some tikka's are good straight from the box, a lot of that is your expectation though
what the tikkas have going for them is the hand lapped barrel
and they have turned into a better plumbers rifle than the remington :drinks:


Can i ask what tweaks Marksman...??...
And are they easy to bed...?
Would you like to tweak one of mine...?...it shoots like crap...im going to try some other brass when i get my hands on some, & if it doesnt shoot then ill offload it...it will be a shame though, as im sure its probably something simple, (like me... :lol: ...)or maybe i havnt hit the right bullet yet... :unknown:
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Re: Tikka T# 22-250 wont shoot

Post by Stix » 28 Dec 2019, 6:28 pm

Stix wrote:Can i ask what tweaks Marksman...??...
And are they easy to bed...?
Would you like to tweak one of mine...?...it shoots like crap...im going to try some other brass when i get my hands on some, & if it doesnt shoot then ill offload it...it will be a shame though, as im sure its probably something simple, (like me... :lol: ...)or maybe i havnt hit the right bullet yet... :unknown:
:)


Stix you are a capable bloke who can do this work yourself :drinks:

if you have the synthetic stock fill the forearm up with fibreglass bog, obviously to stiffen the forearm but leave the barrel floating
use a drill or soldering iron to scar the inside surfaces roughing it up to stop slip
https://www.supercheapauto.com.au/p/sep ... /3147.html

pretty sure you have boyds stocks so you can skip the above

bed and replace the recoil tab if you have the ali one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKQdGXGmcFc
if you have the ali tab l would bet my left nut that it has marks from recoil :thumbsup:
it is really important for the tab to be a tight fit into the stock

or you could glue the tab into the stock to stop flop at least,glue the recoil tab to the rifle with a single drop of super glue, then apply release agent etc like normal, then bed around the tab, once it all cures, you just pop the lug off the receiver since it is only held on with one drop of glue

adjust the trigger to the pull you want, light :lol:

this work has always made them more consistent with no weird little fliers or small POI changes once they're bedded
I've never made one shoot worse by bedding

as l already said Stix l believe you are very capable but if your not sure about it pm me :thumbsup:
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Re: Tikka T# 22-250 wont shoot

Post by Stix » 28 Dec 2019, 6:29 pm

SCJ429 wrote:I agree with you there Marksman, if you are having an issue with a Tikka especially one in the Tupperware stock, it can be a loose recoil lug. There was a guy selling a Titanium lug that was slightly oversize which would be a snug fit or you can bed the existing lug.
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Re: Tikka T# 22-250 wont shoot

Post by Stix » 28 Dec 2019, 6:30 pm

Stix wrote:Good info there...thanks very much...ill have a detailed look a little later...

However, i suspect there may be something else going on...the brass im using does seem to be all over the place--especially neck tension wise--even after annealing them, tension/force required in seating bullets is all over the joint...

Ive just started the arduous task of prepping 300 odd cases, :( ... hopefully i can get some consistant ones out of them & see if that makes a diference...
If not...its either tool time, or send back time...
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Re: Tikka T# 22-250 wont shoot

Post by Stix » 28 Dec 2019, 6:31 pm

marksman wrote:
Stix if you are worried about your cases being the cause of inconsistency take the inconsistency out of it by only using one good case
if you can take your reloading gear with you, l'm sure you already have a good load developed so just do a couple of groups reloading the same case
see if that makes any difference to what is going on
this is where the wilson dies are good because they were made to take to the range with you :drinks: but l know you can make a small bench ;)
you can also weigh powder and put it into small containers to take with you but it is a good idea to wash the containers if they are plastic in dishwashing liquid first to stop the static, l usually weigh inside the rear of the car out of the wind

knock it down one thing at a time
but l always bed and trigger job rifles before l shoot them so l know to look elsewhere :drinks:
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Re: Tikka T# 22-250 wont shoot

Post by Stix » 28 Dec 2019, 6:32 pm

Ah great idea shooting with the one case Marksman... :thumbsup:

As for load--thats the problem...i dont have one--ive never got repeatable results or chrono numbers out of it...
It shoots around an inch with anything i try--but not very good looking groups...you can tell they are random shotgun type groups...
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Re: Tikka T# 22-250 wont shoot

Post by Stix » 28 Dec 2019, 6:33 pm

SCJ429 wrote:
Not that I feel than the hardness of your brass is causing your issues but here is an interesting article from AMP regarding the testing of annealed vs unannealed brass. And they do it using one case to shoot the groups.

https://www.ampannealing.com/articles/5 ... icroscope/
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Re: Tikka T# 22-250 wont shoot

Post by Stix » 28 Dec 2019, 6:34 pm

SCJ429 wrote:
Not that I feel than the hardness of your brass is causing your issues but here is an interesting article from AMP regarding the testing of annealed vs unannealed brass. And they do it using one case to shoot the groups.

https://www.ampannealing.com/articles/5 ... icroscope/


Interesting SCJ...trouble is, the farms i shoot on are out in the mallee, so if i dig a 100 metre underground tunnel to do the testing, its bound to cave in due to being so sandy out there... :lol: :lol: :lol:
And ill give that a go one day, but given the heat, it wont be this week im out in the paddock igniting the a gas torch every shot...
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Re: Tikka T# 22-250 wont shoot

Post by Stix » 28 Dec 2019, 6:37 pm

The latest with the rifle is that ive discovered the scope on it is faulty...(good ol' Bushnell's... :roll: ...) but..!!...it was doing the same with a proven scope before that scope anyway...

Ill try these new cases when i get them all prepped with a different scope ,mounted & see how that goes for a few rounds...

Then ill reoprt back & try the mods--it is still under warranty so hopefully i can get these tests done before it runs out...

:drinks:
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Re: Tikka T# 22-250 wont shoot

Post by Stix » 28 Dec 2019, 11:01 pm

So...the cases im gonna try...

Its my best guess theyve all been once fired in the same rifle...

All within a thou of each other at the shoulder, & all look like factory primers...

From this...(there's a shiny 204 case sitting in there for comparison).
2019-12-28 23.19.41.jpg
2019-12-28 23.19.41.jpg (438.6 KiB) Viewed 6979 times


A quick toss in a bucket with detergent to get some furry stuff off...
2019-12-28 23.20.05.jpg
2019-12-28 23.20.05.jpg (430.83 KiB) Viewed 6979 times


Some out the tumbler drying, & others about to go in...
2019-12-28 23.20.28.jpg
2019-12-28 23.20.28.jpg (475.61 KiB) Viewed 6979 times


Gotta love these wet tumblers eh...!!
2019-12-28 23.19.03.jpg
2019-12-28 23.19.03.jpg (514.35 KiB) Viewed 6979 times

Now, if only the rest of the case prep ahead were so easy... :thumbsdown:
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Re: Tikka T# 22-250 wont shoot

Post by Blr243 » 29 Dec 2019, 1:38 am

Do u neck turn ? Could your necks be getting thicker
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Re: Tikka T# 22-250 wont shoot

Post by perentie » 29 Dec 2019, 6:25 am

Inside the necks dont look so good. Might be why you get a different feel when seating. I give mine a spin with some copper wool wrapped around a brush in the battery drill. For target shooting my wifes 6.5-284 I neck turn to get consistant wall thickness. Its surprising how out of round some cases are.
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Re: Tikka T# 22-250 wont shoot

Post by Strikey » 29 Dec 2019, 6:45 am

You are having a guess about that s**ty looking brass has been once fired in the rifle??? Even though your tumbler has cleaned those cases up they haven't been stored real well beforehand, I think this is the cause of your accuracy problem, bin those cases and start with some new ones before you waste any more time, money and barrel life.
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Re: Tikka T# 22-250 wont shoot

Post by SCJ429 » 29 Dec 2019, 9:09 am

perentie wrote:Inside the necks dont look so good. Might be why you get a different feel when seating. I give mine a spin with some copper wool wrapped around a brush in the battery drill. For target shooting my wifes 6.5-284 I neck turn to get consistant wall thickness. Its surprising how out of round some cases are.


If the brass is only taken off one side when you neck turn, would this indicate that the neck had runout, caused by expanding the neck with a mandrel?
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Re: Tikka T# 22-250 wont shoot

Post by straightshooter » 29 Dec 2019, 10:22 am

Sing this to the tune of "My boomerang won't come back"

with apologies in advance to those sensitive, easily offended types

My Tikka t3 won't shoot!
Your Tikka t3 won't shoot
My Tikka t3 just won't shoot
My Tikka t3 just won't shoot
I've shot the thing all over the place
Reloaded till I was black in the face
I'm a big disgrace t' the Tikka owner's race
My Tikka t3 just won't shoot
I want a kangaroo (yeah yeah)
Make kangaroo stew (yeah yeah)
But I'm a big disgrace t' the Tikka owner's race
My Tikka t3 just won't shoot
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Re: Tikka T# 22-250 wont shoot

Post by marksman » 29 Dec 2019, 11:00 am

you are a funny bugger straightshooter :lol: :lol: :lol: very talented :clap: :clap: :clap:

the problem l see with what you are doing Stix is that these cases will need full prep, they would have to be annealed at least
without a full match prep l would expect an moa group from a 1/2 moa rifle
you could lose most/half of them when weighing for internal volume but that's the price you pay

and lMHO you still have to do all this prep with brand new cases anyway ;) :D

tikkas are like every other brand meaning that the rifles they make are not all equal in precision, they cannot be there has to be a fudge factor
it depends on what your expectations are, someone else would say your rifle shooting moa is a good shooter :unknown:
we know better though, the 22-250 is a longer range varmint case and should shoot better than moa :drinks:
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Re: Tikka T# 22-250 wont shoot

Post by marksman » 29 Dec 2019, 11:32 am

perentie wrote:Inside the necks dont look so good. Might be why you get a different feel when seating. I give mine a spin with some copper wool wrapped around a brush in the battery drill. For target shooting my wifes 6.5-284 I neck turn to get consistant wall thickness. Its surprising how out of round some cases are.


+1 :clap: :clap: :clap:
although l use a pedestal drill to hold the brush :drinks: smooth entry and release of the bullet :drinks:

"If the brass is only taken off one side when you neck turn, would this indicate that the neck had runout, caused by expanding the neck with a mandrel?"
l dont get your question SCJ429 :unknown:
the neck when turned runs off a pilot so any runnout caused by the expander mandrel would not affect the neck as the mandrel straightens out the neck
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Re: Tikka T# 22-250 wont shoot

Post by Stix » 29 Dec 2019, 11:51 am

Ok...so just for clarity... that brass in the pics is NOT the brass ive used in the rifle previously...

This is brass id intended to try...
Ive planned on inspecting & prepping a number of them, until i get 20 or so good ones, & try them...

Also, ive only given them a tumble to get the bulk of the crud off for prepping & inspection...
The ones i use will be tumbled again...

I agree new brass would be better, but not an option at the moment... :thumbsdown:
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Re: Tikka T# 22-250 wont shoot

Post by marksman » 29 Dec 2019, 1:02 pm

once prepped Stix what would be the difference in these and new :unknown:

have a gander at this Stix https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sdJeADnU4Uk
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Re: Tikka T# 22-250 wont shoot

Post by SCJ429 » 29 Dec 2019, 2:07 pm

Is it possible to induce runout with the mandrel? If the neck is already bent, would the mandrel straighten it?
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Re: Tikka T# 22-250 wont shoot

Post by marksman » 29 Dec 2019, 2:56 pm

l'm pretty sure that we dont even have any tool to measure the small amount that we would be talking about, if we are talking about the actual neck having a bend in it
l do believe that an uneven neck thickness has to be bending because the thicker side would be stiffer than the thinner side
but l think after turning this should not be a problem and if you are getting run out from using a mandrel more lube is needed
its probably the reason l dont pay too much attention to my cases till they are match prepped and fireformed :drinks:
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Re: Tikka T# 22-250 wont shoot

Post by Wm.Traynor » 29 Dec 2019, 5:10 pm

marksman wrote:once prepped Stix what would be the difference in these and new :unknown:

have a gander at this Stix https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sdJeADnU4Uk


That bloke is very interesting thank you marksman. :D
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Re: Tikka T# 22-250 wont shoot

Post by Stix » 30 Dec 2019, 11:19 am

Blr243 wrote:Do u neck turn ? Could your necks be getting thicker


Sorry i missed this question BLR... :oops:

No i dont neck turn...yet...!!

I think the problem i had with the brass is different batches that are vastly different in mettalugy---that is what i suspect is at least part of my problem anyway...
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Re: Tikka T# 22-250 wont shoot

Post by Bill » 30 Dec 2019, 11:51 am

Stop torturing yaself stix, go grab a box of tikka 55gr 22 250 ammo, cheap and accurate and none of this reloading crap :drinks:
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Re: Tikka T# 22-250 wont shoot

Post by Stix » 30 Dec 2019, 2:29 pm

Bill wrote:Stop torturing yaself stix, go grab a box of tikka 55gr 22 250 ammo, cheap and accurate and none of this reloading crap :drinks:

It has a very short chamber to the shoulder...i tried several factory ammo in it, & the only ones that shot were the high priced stuff...

The bolt only just closes with a no go gauge...and so 40 % of factory ammo is tight to chamber...
The tight ones shoot bug holes...the loose ones (normal bolt close) all spray at random---& i mean spray--2-3 inches in any given direction from memory...
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Re: Tikka T# 22-250 wont shoot

Post by straightshooter » 30 Dec 2019, 2:41 pm

Stix wrote:The bolt only just closes with a no go gauge...and so 40 % of factory ammo is tight to chamber...
The tight ones shoot bug holes...the loose ones (normal bolt close) all spray at random---& i mean spray--2-3 inches in any given direction from memory...


You have possibly provided a pointer to the root of your problem.
I would suggest you try dry firing at a grid target from a stable sandbag rest and see whether you are able to dry fire with zero movement of the crosshairs.
If there is movement then try dry firing over your tight fired cases and see if there is any difference.
If you can't dry fire without movement then no amount of handload manipulation will do any good. Yes you may sometimes shoot a tight group but mostly you won't.
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Re: Tikka T# 22-250 wont shoot

Post by Blr243 » 30 Dec 2019, 4:01 pm

I only started turning necks because of my 243 shoulder angle brass was slowly flowing fwd and thickening up my necks and potentially increasing chamber pressures due to more neck tension .... it was quite amazing to see how out of round cases were. With the cutter taking a heap of brass off one side and nothing off the other. If u do start neck turning , go easy. It’s quite a fine precision process. Tiny amounts gradually I think. If you get carried away you can end up with necks too thin and then u start to get lots of split necks. Gods way of telling you that you over did it ..... perhaps the steeper angle of the 250 does not suffer as much from forward brass flow
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Re: Tikka T# 22-250 wont shoot

Post by Stix » 30 Dec 2019, 5:43 pm

straightshooter wrote:
You have possibly provided a pointer to the root of your problem.
I would suggest you try dry firing at a grid target from a stable sandbag rest and see whether you are able to dry fire with zero movement of the crosshairs.
If there is movement then try dry firing over your tight fired cases and see if there is any difference.
If you can't dry fire without movement then no amount of handload manipulation will do any good. Yes you may sometimes shoot a tight group but mostly you won't.


I appreciate the suggestion the short chamber may be a possible cause...however ive asked every self professed "expert" i know, including a relatively well credentialled gunsmith...& know one knows...
I dont see how a short chamber is the issue...as a gunsmith told me, some people pay him extra money for that...!

So...What does this movement indicate straightshooter...?

I can fire every rifle i have over a solid sandbag & get movement in the reticle when the firing pin slams the end of its run...thats basically how i shoot to be honest...

So whats the correlation...?
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