what l do to make a new howa better

[marksman]

so this is about what l have just done to a howa to make it a better rifle
l charge quite a bit of money for this and hope to show you guys so you can have a crack making your good rifle better
if anyone has a better idea please jump in and put it up, my way is not the only way

here it is how the buyer bought this howa 1500 from the shop



or l should say this is the second attempt as the first rifle he brought to me had circumferential gun drill burrs in the bore that l could see with my old knackered eyes from the muzzle, the shop put up a fight and tried to get the young bloke to just try it out so they could send it away for warranty but he rang me from the shop and l told him either replace or refund, the owner will not speak to him now buyer beware

anyway this one, the replacement checked out much better
the stock so he says is a Bell and Carlson stock, l'm not sure maybe someone with one can provide an answer, l thought it may be a H&S
it has these ridiculous centering screws on the stock so that you can line up the barrel straight by securing the stock to the recoil lug
the action can not act like it is supposed to under recoil in the stock with this method, bad for accuracy, the bedding will fix it



this stock has an aluminum bedding block that everyone likes to have, the apparent answer to bedding
and some may fit properly but this one certainly did not
it sat on the recoil lug and partially floated on the flat surface to the rear of it shown by the line mark etched on it
this rifle has not been shot by the owner it has only been function fired at the factory



more to come

[marksman]

here is the start of the prep for doing the bedding job, l am not going to do a full action bedding job because l dont trust the material the stock is made of to hold the bedding securely, really its not necessary with these action lMHO



as you can see plenty of tape to protect the stock finish, tape is cheap,
l have laso drilled small holes all over the areas front and rear where the bedding material will be added to the stock

the action is taped up where ever is needs to be relieved,
all flats, the rear of the recoil lug and two layers at the bottom of the lug for compression when the action is tightened up, its very important to relieve the rear of the tang so after bedding there is i tiny gap, you want the recoil lug to be touching not here



l also make little worms from play doe for edges that may crack off when breaking the job open, this also helps with return to battery lMO





more to come

[marksman]

ready for release agent



very crappy photo but shows the small play doe dams l made to protect the stock from overflow



release agent applied l dab the neutral coloured kiwi shoe polish on and before fitting in the bedding material l give a bit of a spray with cheapy furniture polish



the JB ready to use



more to come

[flutch]

seems like a lot of arse ache for that stock, mines just in a boyds and shoots like a dream, only thing i did was hair the trigger, a lot.

[marksman]

the action sitting in the stock, note the tape around the barrel at the forend that holds the barrel straight in the middle of the forend
nothing to hold it together no tightening king screws, just sitting in the puddle no stress



after curing time to break it apart



here's a look at it after getting it apart



l trim the excess, put the rifle back together the king screws are just snug no tightness and sit it in the safe for a day to cure more



more to come

[SCJ429]

Nice work MM, I look forward to your next posts. Great use of Play Dough.

[marksman]

what it looks like after the cleanup



and this is where you hold the forend to check your work, holding the forend you undo one king screw at a time checking for movement,
any movement and you get to do it again, that's the importance of no stress bedding



so the rifle gets put back together and its time to lap the bolt lugs
my method is to use a q-tip to apply 600 grit lapping paste on each of the lugs with an empty case in the chamber to give some back pressure against the lugs, l open close the bolt probably 20-30 times then check the lugs for contact, this rifle wasn't to bad with around 60% contact on one lug and 80% on the other, l want more though, it took approximately 120 open closing to get these even and right, some people may be worried about headspace, l did check this rifle with headspace gauges for no worries but really you are only just taking a very small amount away, if you are worried get the go- nogo gauges



the finished result, this is a big one for a pression shooter



more to come

[marksman]

now we all hear how a tikka has such a butter smooth bolt to use, if you cant be bothered waiting till you have cycled your bolt a few thousand times on your howa this is what you need to get it smooth as silk



the lock-ease is for after smoothing out the raceways with my little home made tool that is a piece of wood with some 1000 grit sandpaper attached
my method is to sand the raceways as well as to turn the action upside down sand all surfaces that will be contacted by the bolt lugs including the bottoms and tops of the bolt lugs, never touching the rear where you have lapped
it doesn't take much in fact very very little and your howa bolt will be as smooth as silk, then for added smoothness apply the lock-ease to the raceways



the next job is to polish the throat with some autosol but firstly the rifle has to be cleaned, l used bore tech eliminator but you may use what you wish
this is a new rifle having only been shot at the factory so there may be some burrs where the reamer went in, this will not wear the burrs down they need to be burnt off by shooting the rifle, running the barrel in, this can make your rifle a bit easier to run in if it has burrs
the method is to coat a tight fitting patch with autosol (you can use JB bore paste) putting the patch over a smaller or worn nylon brush, l used a 270cal brush because this is a 30cal, autosol or JB bore paste will not harm your bore although l would not use it exclusively for cleaning bores
l insert the patch pushing it back and forth for about 6 inches of the bore after the chamber at least 20 times back and forth then pushing further into the bore stroking back and forth for 3/4 of the barrel 20 times the another 20 to just about at the muzzle then push the patch out, the grittiness of the autosol gets finer as you are using it



after polishing clean the bore again but dont get to carried away because the patches will stay black



more to come

[marksman]

being a factory rifle the crown was very dull, looking under through a magnifying glass l couldn't see any real defects but l gave it a slight polish anyway



this shows the very slight polish the crown got, if you have a go at this this way you need to be rotating the drill as it spins not keeping it in one spot
the difference was that the crown had a sharp edge that it didn't before



next job is to attach the scope mounts, the screws are waxed with the kiwi boot polish and sprayed with the cheapo furniture polish then the jb's is mixed and coated onto the bottoms of the mounts and put in place, because these are 2 piece mounts l connect a bar across to make sure they are inline none of the attachment screws are tight, after curing they get tightened properly





nearly there

[allthegearandnoidea]

Great work - thanks for sharing. That stock looks like the higher end H-S synthetic they put on the Howa Precision Semi Heavy Barrel model of a couple of years ago.

[marksman]

l changed the trigger springs in this rifle with a gunbloke spring kit to lighten the pull
l do like his springs and have no problem promoting them, they are an upgrade lMO



this is the finished rifle, it doesn't look any different but has the best chance lMHO of being the best it can



l wont be doing any load development for this rifle as the owner does not reload, its a shame really but l've done a couple of second hand howas for this guy and he knows the improvements by the before and after, he did not hesitate in voiding his warranty to make this rifle a better rifle

l hope someone gets something out of this and you guys who want to have a crack will not be afraid to

[marksman]

Great work - thanks for sharing. That stock doesnt look like the standard Hogue it looks like the high end H-S synthetic they put on the Howa Precision Semi Heavy Barrel model of a couple of years ago. Any tips for the standard Hogue?

thanks for that
lMHO the best tip for the standard hogue is to change it for a timber one but that is just my opinion, you can stiffen/stabilise the forend with fibreglass filler fairly cheap and then just bed it with JB, that will improve it a great deal but like this stock it will still be soft in the wrist, that isn't that bad in a small cal rifle but as they get bigger 308 ect it can

https://www.supercheapauto.com.au/p/sep ... /3147.html

[GQshayne]

You have no doubt done bedding a number of times, and have a method developed over time. On the other hand, I have only done it twice and just made it up as I went.

I used JB, shoe polish and silicone spray as the release agent, taped the barrel to get it centred. No play dough, so I used Blu-Tac. Much the same.

But, I used the action screws to ensure it was seated properly, only a light tweak on them though. And I bedded the tang as I did the recoil lug. Did not come across your method in my reading, but then again I have a timber stock with no pillars or ally blocks etc. No lapping for me either, but reckon I can give that a miss on a 40 year old rifle.

Nice work you did. Hopefully the owner is happy!

[Wm.Traynor]

Very good tip about the Play-D0 "worms", marksman
Your placement of bedding compound is almost as minimal as mine, which uses nothing in front of the action and only a half-moon of compound around the rear half of the tang.
I found that using nothing in front of the action (under the reinforce) produced the dreaded "rock" at the fore end tip when the king screws were operated on. Reducing the compound at the tang eliminated the "rock".

But each to his own. If it works for you and you like it, go for it

[Stix]

Well done marksman...

You obviously know what you're doing, & are a good bloke for taking that time to put all that info into a dedicated thread to help & educate others ...

You're probably an international star now... ...just think of how many shooters around the world have, &/or will bookmark this page...

Its a shame you dont make a bit on the 'production' like a fishing show--cos id happily loan you a doner rifle for the Tikka bedding thread...

Good stuff & Well done...

So can i just confirm, with the rings--did you bed the bases to the receiver...yes...?...& no lapping of the rings...

[marksman]

yes Stix l bedded the bases to the action and there was no need to lap the rings on this one, l did check

the rear base actually rocked on this action so they needed to be bedded and made to be in line
l rather 1 piece mounts myself but these still need bedding and do need lapping

l dont know about being a star, there might be a few people who do this type of work that dont like little tricks put out there,
just trying to help
as others have put up there are other ways that work just as well

you are very capable Stix and l know you would be able to do this work, the tikka is a little different to bed but not much
the main thing is to sit down and think about how you are going to attack it, get it all ready and put it together like a practice run
the jb l used this time is the quick set stuff its not really for the faint hearted

[flutch]

the trigger spring thing is kinda eh..... I just put half a biro one in the one behind the adjustment screw and then left the other one out, result was a crisp hairy trigger with absolutely 0 creep and safety still works perfectly.

[Sergeant Hartman]

Awesomely informative thread mate. Love your work

[Oldbloke]

Great. Lots of detail too

[bigrich]

This is a very timely post MM, as I’m looking into buying a Howa. Good detail and information on your modifications, I’m sure it’s appreciated by many

If I could afford to, I think the best way to fix a Howa is to buy a Sako

[Am88]

It's good to see how people do things so differently, some handy little tips I picked up out of that which I will now use. good stuff

[marksman]

thanks guys
the idea is to show some of the work you can do yourself to improve your rifle, the methods can be transferable to other brands including sako BR

[Wapiti]

Great informative post tgere mate.

Interesting you've used JB Weld to set up the scope bases to the action.
Agree that using a scope alignmemt bar or lapping too when setting up the rings will minimise the misalignment of some degree (always a little, sometimes a detrimental lot) except that I've routinely used "Loctite 668 High Strength Retaining Compound" which does the same thing, yet can squeeze down to a few microns thick on the high spots.
That'll be my trade background, my mates in the game would kill me if I used JB Weld. Although, it might do a better job of bridging hideous big gaps. But luckily, I've never struck any yet.

I'm ashamed to say I was a big brand snob once, but having bought two Howas, both little action 223s for knock around farm guns, when clocking them in the 4-jaw and setting up the DI, I found they are straighter than most stuff 3x+ the price. Or 5x for that matter.
And, I don't know about this gritty bolt story, these two haven't a machining mark on them and are oily piston smooth. A credit to them too.

[Stix]

thanks guys
the idea is to show some of the work you can do yourself to improve your rifle, the methods can be transferable to other brands including sako BR

Well dont mistake me for a fox--that was my ears that pricked up when you said that last sentence marksman...

There is a thread wsy back in the depths of this forum on bedding a model 85, but id be keen to hear what you say about bedding & accurising them...

Our mate with the silly 'iccint' on the floating rocks way out off the south east coast of Aust doesnt have much at all nice to say about those rifles...!!!

[AZZA'S HJ47]

I can also add a log to the fire on this one i purchased a howa 1500 in 308 stainless. Out of the box it would have had to have been the worst shooting rifle i had ever bought. However after doing some bedding and fiberglass reinforcing the foreend and a gun bloke trigger spring turned the rifle into my go to 30 cal rifle. Uncomparable to the rifle when purchased it

[sungazer]

The big gaps you may find where the rail really needs bedding can be found on some Remington 700 actions. One of mine if the screws were tightend down in the wrong order would change the windage bu 22 MOA the rail would slide or be pulled out from the centre by that incredible amount. The Remington 700 actions are not a fully round action and it is not an isolated issue with many people reporting the same issue.

[Stix]

So what ewuipment & process do you bolt lug lappers use to ensure youve got all the cutting compound out of the area the lugs live in...?

[marksman]

Well dont mistake me for a fox--that was my ears that pricked up when you said that last sentence marksman...

There is a thread wsy back in the depths of this forum on bedding a model 85, but id be keen to hear what you say about bedding & accurising them...

Our mate with the silly 'iccint' on the floating rocks way out off the south east coast of Aust doesnt have much at all nice to say about those rifles...!!!

l have done two 85's Stix it's just a different coloured dog to bed, l found and looked at the thread here on bedding a sako 85
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=7281
there is a couple of ways to do it but since yours is a smaller cal, 204 l believe, this is how l would attack it, (this is not how l would do a bigger cal)

basically take out the recoil plate from the stock, play-do dam the mag well in the stock, tape the stock up as for the howa, play-do dam the trigger cutout near the tang

relive edges in the cutout in the action so you dont get the broken edges like in Apollos bedding job with skinny play-do worms ( not hanging it on your job Apollo just what l would do ) this will also make installation easier without the hassle of breakage crumbs of bedding upsetting the bedding



remove trigger and mag release
tape the sides of the action side flats and around tang to relieve them, tape the bottom of the action near the tang where you do not want bedding material to enter leaving where you want the bedding to sit untaped



play-do worm where the barrel meets ect..
play-do dam in the mag inlet on the action, make some headless bolts to use for centering the action and tape these to fit the existing king screw holes (tight but so you can move them in and out without much pressure,
l know it's a ****** photo but when you go to put the job together these bolt's will be in the stock and you will have to hold the action out of the puddle to screw these bolts into the action before lowering the action onto the puddle of bedding compound



tape the barrel at the end of the forend so the barrel is centered snug, no pressure

before doing the job do a trial fit as you would be when doing the job without bedding material

lots of kiwi boot polish dabbed on all over the action and the centering bolts spray with cheapo furniture spray

mix the bedding material, l suggest jb for how l have explained, and do it as practiced using no stress on the action

have a beer and kentucky fried rabbit waiting for the bedding material to cure, break it out after curing, should be easy, clean it up put it together light tightness on kings screws till a good proper cure then maybe a bit more cleanup and tighten up to spec and shoot

l have probably left some info out as the missus is wanting me to watch a movie but l will reread it later to be sure
hope this helps you out Stix

l forgot to add the finish should be the same as Apollo's

so an important part that should be done is that you will need to dig out and rough up some stock material
the ideal thickness of the bedding material should be around 2mm minimum but on the howa l did minimum around 1mm in the thinnest places
l roughed up and gouged out some of the aluminum bedding block so there was at least 1mm of bedding, and had probably the same amount under the start of the barrel, obviously edges ect... will be less
before taking the recoil plate out it is also important that you put the tape around the barrel at the forend to give you the height that the action and barrel will be sitting at when the job is done, the tape is a snug fit into the barrel channel, you want no stress, just drop it in to a runny puddle and it will find its own home when using JB, l would consider putting in a rear tang pillar

l'm sure that's about it, l was in a hurry last night

[Potatoes]

I just ditched my hogue for a boyds thimbhole stock the other week. I wish i had seen this post before, damn. I put aluminium pillars in too. My groups had slightly opened up, but found they improved back to normal when i loosened the rear bolt, as they were both quite tight. I filled in behind the tang unlike you marksmen, so i might cut this bit out with the rotary tool and see if that helps. I am also much prefering the ergonomics of the thumbhole, i think that old hogue may have put me off sporter stocks for good. I put the 1.5lb sping in from the gunbloke, its as good as gold and he gave pretty good instructions for a beginner gunsmith such as myself.

[bigrich]

i bought a standard 308 sako a7 a couple of years ago, and with hand loading it made one ragged hole . no mods . standard as supplied . howa are good value for money , but sometimes you do get what you pay for
JMHO