Anyone foxing with a 17 or 22 Hornet?

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Anyone foxing with a 17 or 22 Hornet?

Post by Bruiser64 » 13 Feb 2020, 10:06 pm

As I do more shooting, I am finding that on some smaller properties the 204 or 243 are too much, and the foxes are too far out to shoot humanely with my rimfires. So this has got me thinking about the 17 Hornet. Is anyone using one as their fox rifle? What does your experience tell you about its’ effectiveness? If you have used the 17 and the 22 hornet how do you think they compare to each other? I
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Re: Anyone foxing with a 17 or 22 Hornet?

Post by Oldbloke » 13 Feb 2020, 10:41 pm

Slightly off topic. But for small properties i use a "squib load" in my 223. A 55gr SP doing about 2200fps. Good for about 120 yards. It could be an option for your 204.
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Re: Anyone foxing with a 17 or 22 Hornet?

Post by Bruiser64 » 13 Feb 2020, 10:48 pm

Oldbloke wrote:Slightly off topic. But for small properties i use a "squib load" in my 223. A 55gr SP doing about 2200fps. Good for about 120 yards. It could be an option for your 204.

Good point. If it isn’t feasible to get a Hornet, Inwill look at that.
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Re: Anyone foxing with a 17 or 22 Hornet?

Post by Oldbloke » 13 Feb 2020, 11:06 pm

A lot cheaper. And if you buy a rifle you still need to develop loads for it. Trick is to get POI only lower than the normal load and not too far left or right. Sourcing load data can be a bit tricky though. Works for me.
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Re: Anyone foxing with a 17 or 22 Hornet?

Post by marksman » 13 Feb 2020, 11:19 pm

l run two 17 ackley hornets and a 22 hornet
the 17 ackley will not damage skins if you chest shoot, you have to skin the foxes to find the hole and when you pick up the fox it will feel like broken egg shells but no exit hole, the 17 ackley was the pro fox shooters cartridge for a reason :thumbsup:
the 17 hornet is the copy of the 17 ackley but is 2mm shorter supposedly has better cases (not true), is made to shoot 20gr projectiles
IMHO it is a good round but the 17 ackley is far better, but l am biased :lol:
when l had my sons brno 22 hornet converted to 17 ackley l shot forming loads at the range and less than a week later 2 blokes l let have a shot at 200m had both bought a 17 hornet, we were shooting empty shotgun shells at 200 with forming loads
you would be happy with the 17 hornet, they are accurate and very cheap to reload :drinks:

the 22 hornet l have is for my daughter, it is an original condition 465 zkw brno and after shooting the 17 ackleys she wants it rebarreled but l have hesitated because of its originality and condition, the 22 hornet has its place dont get me wrong but it is not as good as the 17 hornet :thumbsup:
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Re: Anyone foxing with a 17 or 22 Hornet?

Post by flutch » 13 Feb 2020, 11:36 pm

Loaded right anything is accurate enough for fox shoots, I think provided you're not in super windy conditions a 17 hornet would be a cracker out to 200m
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Re: Anyone foxing with a 17 or 22 Hornet?

Post by bladeracer » 13 Feb 2020, 11:48 pm

Bruiser64 wrote:As I do more shooting, I am finding that on some smaller properties the 204 or 243 are too much, and the foxes are too far out to shoot humanely with my rimfires. So this has got me thinking about the 17 Hornet. Is anyone using one as their fox rifle? What does your experience tell you about its’ effectiveness? If you have used the 17 and the 22 hornet how do you think they compare to each other? I


Most of my foxes are taken with the .204 32gn ZMax at 2400fps.
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Re: Anyone foxing with a 17 or 22 Hornet?

Post by marksman » 13 Feb 2020, 11:51 pm

from the fox pages :drinks:

"very happy/proud moment when your boy gets his first reynard :thumbsup:
we ended up with 3 but this dog was the best one for the night, his first and just on dark at 300
on my advice he held the crosshairs on the head hitting into the shoulder and destroying the heart lungs
l had to cough very loudly to get him to stop, my boy jumped when l did :lol: lucky we dont have fingers on triggers till we shoot :thumbsup:
the rifle is a 17 ackley hornet using zmax 20 grainers, these are forming loads
so Stix sorry mate nothing to tell in fact l reckon you are better at getting foxes than me :drinks:
the only thing l will say is l hate skinning them, if anyone has a good trick way let us all know"

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Re: Anyone foxing with a 17 or 22 Hornet?

Post by deye243 » 14 Feb 2020, 12:31 am

I find this real funny as the noise between a hornet or another cal ...... if you have a neighbour that would be pissed off on a cal like a 223 they will be pissed off over a 22mag as well .
Just shoot the fox and if the they don't like it tell them to suck it up because it's all legal
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Re: Anyone foxing with a 17 or 22 Hornet?

Post by bladeracer » 14 Feb 2020, 4:22 am

deye243 wrote:I find this real funny as the noise between a hornet or another cal ...... if you have a neighbour that would be pissed off on a cal like a 223 they will be pissed off over a 22mag as well .
Just shoot the fox and if the they don't like it tell them to suck it up because it's all legal


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Re: Anyone foxing with a 17 or 22 Hornet?

Post by SCJ429 » 14 Feb 2020, 6:18 am

I am not trying to talk you out of a Hornet, if you want a new rifle you should go for it.

I find it hard to justify buying a low power caliber when I have over $4,000 invested in a 204, rifle optics, dies, PTA etc...
I can load the 204 from 1000 fps to over 4000 fps. Others here have experience shooting jacketed bullets at low speed but I am worried how my Vmax will work at vastly reduced velocities. I know at normal speeds they work very well on foxes, even at extended ranges.
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Re: Anyone foxing with a 17 or 22 Hornet?

Post by Bruiser64 » 14 Feb 2020, 8:29 am

My interest in the 17 hornet is about safely shooting on a smaller property. Being a lighter pill it should shed velocity quicker than the 204, so should come to ground quicker. Having said that, Like all of us here, I won’t take a shot unless it is safe to do so.
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Re: Anyone foxing with a 17 or 22 Hornet?

Post by Bill » 14 Feb 2020, 9:36 am

started with a Martini hornet and plenty of split cases, reamed it too a K hornet and had the soft steel sportco barrel bulge after about 30 shots.

So I rebarreled it to a 218 Bee which has been a fantastic laser on foxes and hares but its a noisy gun with 40gr Vmax at 3300fps and on the smaller blocks Ive used it on.

Have never tried a 17 hornet but I could imagine it would be more than a good thing, 17 WSM game over, no need to reload and 250m shots on foxes make it just about perfect, doesnt seem to push other game too far away either, wind is it only issue but its less than half the hmr and on foxes still usable most of the time.
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Re: Anyone foxing with a 17 or 22 Hornet?

Post by Stix » 14 Feb 2020, 4:58 pm

Hey Bruiser...

I dont own a hornet...but i would dearly love a 17 Acjkley...i mean how could you not want one for the purposes you describe...look at what the others say who have them... :) cheap, accurate & fits the bill when it comes to bullet overtravel... :thumbsup:

With regard to what Blade said in regards to reduced loads in a 204---well im a fan of that too... :thumbsup: And if you reload, i think this is certainly something worth a shot with your existing 204...!!

However, i will say that im keen to try these 24gn bullets with trailboss...because I also have a reduced load with the 32 Zmax for my 204, but dont use them much due to the different POI they have as compared with the full load.

But not only that, on rabbits, these will pencil through & not open up when at lower velocities...which is why id like to try the 24's...so they will most likely pencil through on smallish foxes too if not hitting solid bone.
WHOOPS--I mean be LESS LIKELY that last sentence... :oops:

So give the trailboss & 24gr bullets ago, while you're looking for a suitable 17 hornet...you should have lots of scope to vary the velocity with that set-up--the question will be acceptable accuracy---& if you get reasonable accuracy with it, do splash tests like marksman does to see how they perform...
Then if you only have a vertical displacement of the shot from a normal load, you'll be able to slip a reduced load in for a necessary shot, or visaversa when the need arises & use the holdover nessecary for just that shot...

:drinks:
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Re: Anyone foxing with a 17 or 22 Hornet?

Post by SCJ429 » 14 Feb 2020, 5:30 pm

If I was shooting a full power load and a reduced load I would work out how much lower it was at the range I hunt at, say 2.5 MOA, and dial down to that zero. When I go back to my full power, you could wind back up 2.5 MOA and be good to go.
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Re: Anyone foxing with a 17 or 22 Hornet?

Post by Stix » 14 Feb 2020, 6:18 pm

Or...just know the POI of reduced load &/or your holdover...

Get Xmas tree scope (reticle)...theyre magnificent for that... :thumbsup:

Shoot both loads at 100 with the scope staying on the same POA & shot as you would normally shoot full load..then wind the power of scope until you have the reduced load striking its nearest hash mark....thats the power you have the scope on for reduced load shooting...

Fire 2 shots of the reduced load at basic ranges (maybe 150 & 200) & take note of the hash marks it is near.

Then no dialling, just drop the round in & use the hash mark for POA.

The biggest problem is shooting over the top of target with what you thought was a reduced load...... :lol: ...or visa-versa... :oops:
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Re: Anyone foxing with a 17 or 22 Hornet?

Post by GQshayne » 14 Feb 2020, 7:25 pm

I reckon you have to go the 17 Squirrel!!!!!

I just like the name of it. :wtf: :crazy:
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Re: Anyone foxing with a 17 or 22 Hornet?

Post by snag » 14 Feb 2020, 7:33 pm

I've been using .22 hornet on foxes for 50 odd years with no problems at all. Used factory hollow point ammo back in the dark ages, now load my own with 40 grain Hornady Zmax and a light charge of AR 2207. Anything the front half of the animal out to 150 yards or so is terminal and not loud all. Great little cartridge.
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Re: Anyone foxing with a 17 or 22 Hornet?

Post by Bruiser64 » 14 Feb 2020, 8:18 pm

Thanks heaps everyone for their replies. Once again you have proven what a helpful bunch shooters are. I also know that my question would provoke some discussion. There are a few things that draw me to the 17 Hornet. Firstly a theoretically flat trajectory out to 150 to (hopefully) 180 ish or so metres. Enough energy at that range for a decisive kill on a fox. A highly frangible projectile that won’t go right on through a fox and posing a down range risk. An accurate calibre (apparently). And last of all cheap to reload. Cheap to reload is not a hugely high priority, more of a bonus. Plus the calibre is available in a CZ, which is a brand I like. As I live in WA it is always a crapshoot as to whether I will get it Licenced.
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Re: Anyone foxing with a 17 or 22 Hornet?

Post by SCJ429 » 16 Feb 2020, 8:08 am

bladeracer wrote:Just keep in mind that all calculation can only be as accurate as the data you give it.
You really should confirm the BC of your bullet in the field, in my opinion, rather than rely on published numbers. And do it at longer distances as well, the BC is often velocity-dependent, it changes as the bullet loses velocity.


Very true, the lower the velocity the lower the BC. Very difficult to calculate your BC without making some assumptions. Temperature, altitude, wind direction and speed as well as your average speed over the flight time.

Also out of interest, Isaac Newton is know for three laws of motion. The first law is basically that every object in a state of motion will remain that way unless an external force acts on it. The two things that primarily act on the bullet during its flight is air resistance and gravity.

The second law is that force equals mass times acceleration or speed. Easy peasy.

The third law is that every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. Recoil is a good example.

Isaac would say that the heaviest bullet with the most speed and BC will have the most energy, or the bullet that has the best combined figures of those three things.
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Re: Anyone foxing with a 17 or 22 Hornet?

Post by Bruiser64 » 17 Feb 2020, 11:00 pm

Hi Blokes. I actually found the too and fro about ballistics interesting. So interesting I had a look at the ballistics calculator and concluded that for my purposes a 22 hornet is more suitable than the 17. My initial enquiry was because I shoot at times on properties where my 204 is too much gun and my rimfires not enough. I looked at the data on the Hornady website for factory ammo for the 35 grain vmax .22 hornet, the 20 grain vmax 17 hornet and the 40 grain vmax 204 all with a 200 yard zero. The respective drops at 300 yards are 43cm, 16 cm and 11 cm. Obviously the 22 Hornet pill will hit the deck sooner than the 17. At 400 yards the 22 hornet drops 150cm whereas the 17 drops 52cm. So on a smaller property the 22 will be better for my use. On a bigger block, I would just use my 204 or 243. The blokes who use the 22 hornet on foxes are happy with the round within its limitations. So that is the choice I would like to make.

I am aware the figures above are ballpark. For the comparison between the calibres the figures are useful for me for this exercise. If I lived in a different state, I would probably just get both the 17 and 22 hornets.
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Re: Anyone foxing with a 17 or 22 Hornet?

Post by Oldbloke » 17 Feb 2020, 11:05 pm

:thumbsup: Hornet is bloody popular, probably for good reason. No personal experience but i understand the 17s can be a pain when it comes to cleaning too.

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Re: Anyone foxing with a 17 or 22 Hornet?

Post by Bruiser64 » 18 Feb 2020, 12:10 am

Thanks. I owned a Brno Hornet 20 odd years ago which I regret ever selling. I do like the calibre and feel I have a genuine need for it. I am sure the local fox population would agree.
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Re: Anyone foxing with a 17 or 22 Hornet?

Post by duncan61 » 18 Feb 2020, 4:46 pm

I had a 17 HMR when they first come out and was impressed with it.If you have genuine need there is no issue with getting firearms in W.A.We all love Hornet never heard a bad word about it
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Re: Anyone foxing with a 17 or 22 Hornet?

Post by Flyer » 18 Feb 2020, 8:19 pm

Bruiser64 wrote:Thanks. I owned a Brno Hornet 20 odd years ago which I regret ever selling. I do like the calibre and feel I have a genuine need for it. I am sure the local fox population would agree.

duncan61 wrote:I had a 17 HMR when they first come out and was impressed with it.If you have genuine need there is no issue with getting firearms in W.A.We all love Hornet never heard a bad word about it

You guys in WA have probably already seen this, but you shouldn't have any trouble getting a hornet if you already have 204/223 because WAPOL's suggested range and property size is much smaller.

property size for firearms.jpg
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Re: Anyone foxing with a 17 or 22 Hornet?

Post by TassieTiger » 21 Feb 2020, 8:04 am

Just read this thread - very interesting...pretty clear so I'll just add...
Every day, I work with highly educated and recently schooled engineers who know theory like they know their pubic hair...it's highly amusing and gratifying to watch the colour drain from their faces at opportune times, when their applied theory comes completely undone in the "real world" and they sit their wondering WTF just happened..and the universities keep spitting them out at us and then we keep educating them properly lol.
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Re: Anyone foxing with a 17 or 22 Hornet?

Post by Bruiser64 » 21 Feb 2020, 7:11 pm

TassieTiger wrote:Just read this thread - very interesting...pretty clear so I'll just add...
Every day, I work with highly educated and recently schooled engineers who know theory like they know their pubic hair...it's highly amusing and gratifying to watch the colour drain from their faces at opportune times, when their applied theory comes completely undone in the "real world" and they sit their wondering WTF just happened..and the universities keep spitting them out at us and then we keep educating them properly lol.


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Re: Anyone foxing with a 17 or 22 Hornet?

Post by Stix » 21 Feb 2020, 7:51 pm

See what i mean... :)

Good to see its getting a little better balanced... :thumbsup:

But still, its a shame some good info has to be lost... :unknown: :roll:
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Re: Anyone foxing with a 17 or 22 Hornet?

Post by Oldbloke » 21 Feb 2020, 8:18 pm

Stix wrote:See what i mean... :)

Good to see its getting a little better balanced... :thumbsup:

But still, its a shame some good info has to be lost... :unknown: :roll:


No not lost. Here is the link mate. V :thumbsup:

https://www.hornady.com/team-hornady/ba ... !/standard
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Re: Anyone foxing with a 17 or 22 Hornet?

Post by TassieTiger » 21 Feb 2020, 8:52 pm

Look at the humongous amount of uncontrollable variables old bloke, that table is useful in a perfect world or as a starting point only.
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