Magnification Advice for New Shooters

[TheFirearmEnthusiast]

Hey Guys,

What I'm posting right here, it's mainly for new shooters and NOT for existing shooters

I am (more or less) a new shooter myself
I have been shooting for 5x months now
I am currently using a Bushnell Scope AR Optics (With Wind Hold)

When I was out there looking to buy my 1st scope
I honestly had no idea what magnification I needed
It can be a bit confusing sometimes as everyone gives different advice at times

After having shot my rifle for a while now (Target Shooting/Shooting at Paper @ 50metres away)
I can honestly recommend that the more magnification the better

The magnification on my scope right now is: 4-18 x 40mm
I find that I always leave my magnification on 18x at 100% of the time
And even though I am shooting accurately enough at the moment
(with the CCI standard velocity, I am currently shooting 1" groups very consistently)
I could honestly use more magnification
More magnification would be pleasant, I would enjoy that

So that's just my advice for new shooters out there looking at getting into Target Shooting
(The more magnification, the better)

That's my view on it
That's my experience of it so far

Thanks Lads

[SCJ429]

From your research, what do you think is the ideal magnification for shooting rimfire at 50 metres?

What brands of scope have you seen successful shooters using on their rifles?

What are the guys using that you have seen shooting at 200 metres?

[TassieTiger]

Nope. None at all. Been in your shoes. Bought the AR scope against advice and soon realised my mistake.
These guys are not trying to be asshats, they know a thing or two and have probably forgotten more about shooting than you and me currently know.

I can’t talk about previous threads - it I can tell you there is something of a language barrier between newbies and long termers...and I don’t think there is a way to learn that shortfall without moving through the steps yourself...like an old guy telling you to not spend money on the engine of your first car.
If you ask someone who has been around shooting, for their best value scope for 300m - they aren’t going to reply with anything in the budget or economy range - as they have already walked the path...but typically, a newbie won’t want to spend $1500 on a scope - because, put dimply - you don’t know, what you don’t know...but in 5 or 10 years time, you’ll be answering the questions- not asking them - and you’ll be advising on a $1500 scope as well..,

[TheFirearmEnthusiast]

SCJ429;
#1
As stated in this thread multiple times by me.
I believe that the more magnification, the better.

#2
Most shooters have recommended Bushnell to me.
Some extremely knowledgeable shooters have recommended Bushnell to me too.
Some have recommended Leupold as well.
But I believe that Bushnell is better value for money.
I like my Bushnell.
I've done very well with it so far.

#3
I will not tell you who the people are that I know who shoot at 200metres away with the Ruger Precision Rimfire. I respect people's privacy.

[TheFirearmEnthusiast]

TassieTiger;
You are actually correct.
I actually fully agree with everything you've just said
That all makes sense regarding the language barrier between new shooters and long term shooters.

But at the same time
Long time shooters should try to come down to the New Shooters' level as well to try to help too
That's the kind thing to do

I have very little knowledge about shooting myself
However, I always try to help as much as possible with the little knowledge that I have
(Hence this thread right here right now)

I legitimately created this thread right here to genuinely help new shooters.
And I do those sorts of things a lot.

What I hate is the negativity that some people have.
Negativity is for l0sers.

[SCJ429]

I understand that you are saying that you need more than 18x magnification to shoot optimally but how much do you consider enough? Is 30x, 50x or even 80x the amount you would prefer to use?

When people recommended Bushnell to you, was that because it because they said it was suited to bench shooting on your rimfire.? Or because it suited your budget?

The Bushnell AR series is a budget optic made for the AR15 rifle. The 18x magnification gives you some handy zoom from this $200 optics which makes it not a bad thing at that price point. If you love it, that is great. Get you money's worth out of it.

[TheFirearmEnthusiast]

SCJ429;

#1
Regarding what magnification would be best for me
(30x, 50x or 80x)
I honestly don't know
I guess it depends on how far out I wanna shoot to be honest.
I've only been shooting at 50metres away so far
I seem to do okay shooting at 50metres away
I always shoot 1" groups
I guess that's an okay result?
I will get into long distance shooting soon though
So I guess the most magnification I can get would be best for me
(If I wanna shoot at 200metres away)
That's my guess
But I honestly don't know
I've never looked through scopes that had a magnification of 30x, 50x or 80x.
So I just don't know.
But yeah, my "wild guess" would be to just get as much magnification as possible.
Since I wish I had more than 18x for just shooting at 50metres away (Which is short distance)

#2
People recommended Bushnell to me because they said it was suited to bench shooting on my rimfire and because it suited my budget.
That's correct.
For your 1st scope, as a brand new beginner, I don't think it's smart to spend over $500 but maybe that's just me
I kinda believe in "baby steps" first and then move up from there.
If that makes sense


#3
Yeah
I mean
I'm not gonna lie man
I do like the Bushnell AR Optics 4-18 x 40mm
It's just that yeah
Sometimes when I do look through the scope, looking at that target
I kind of wish I could zoom in further
But I can't haha
But yeah nah I do okay with it man
For target shooting at paper at 50metres away
Its such basic shooting
It does the job fine
You can't complain about it for that purpose
That's for sure

[Sergeant Hartman]

Lol... seriously how did i miss this thread. Hey i think i offered you a pretty decent deal on a 24x scope.

On a serious note, its ok many people make mistakes, even i have when i started. you live and learn. It's nice of you to admit that you were wrong. But as someone said the type of shooting you do dictators what type of scope you use.

The NF benchrest scope is a great piece of kit. For basically half price of their normal range you get very high quality glass. Whether you are regularly range (or benchrest) shooting at 50,100 or 200m the BR series are probably the best bang for you buck scope with super high magnification. Unless you want to go fixed mags.

On a different but serious note, i know you are arguing, but just accept it that you are young and inexperienced and sungazer/sjc guys were right in their free advice to you... you can even send them a pm, but acknowledged here will be better.

[SCJ429]

Next weekend there is a National 200 metre Rimfire Fly shoot on, I will be there. Why don't you come along and have a look. You can ask the competitors if you can look through their scopes.

Can you predict the number of Bushnell scopes that you will see there? Why would competitors favour different brands?

If you see some shortcomings with your scope at 50 metres, do you think the situation will improve or get worse as your distance increases?

Do you think there is an advantage in using a fine crosshair,, retical, for shootings group or score competition?

Are there any advantages or disadvantage in using a fixed power scope?

[TheFirearmEnthusiast]

Ziad;
#1
I am not arguing?

#2
I have already mentioned that I have little experience. Multiple times.
I’m not ashamed of it.
It’s just a fact?
Everyone was a beginner once.

#3
It’s no secret that I am relatively new to shooting.
I am not ashamed of that either.
That’s just a fact as well.
Again, everyone was new to shooting once upon a time too.

#4
As soon as people recommended High Magnification for me (MONTHS ago)
I took it on board instantly.
I never argued against the advices I was given?
Some people here lie!
Here is the proof that I took the advice of higher magnification onboard IMMEDIATELY!
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=12966

SCJ429:
#1
Where will the National 200m Rimfire fly shoot take place?
If I’m free I may pop by

#2
I don’t know what brands long distance shooters favour.
My guess would be Nightforce, Schmidt & Bender, Khales and Swarovski?

#3
I don’t really see any shortcomings with my Bushnell scope to be honest.
(For what I wanted to do with it anyway)
I only wish I had a tad more magnification, that’s all.
(For shooting at 50metres away)
So for shooting at 200metres away, obviously I would need a lot more magnification.
(Logically speaking)
As mentioned in this thread, I do believe that the higher magnification, the better.
How much magnification do you need EXACTLY then I guess it depends on how far out you wanna shoot.
That sounds logical to me.
But generally yes, I do believe that the higher magnification, the better.
For Target Shooting anyway, not for hunting.

#4
I think the thinner reticle, the better, yes.

#5
Even though I have little knowledge
Logic tells me that variable scopes are better.
Being able to adjust
Being able to zoom in or out
It gives you more flexibility
Logic tells me that it’s better to have flexibility, rather than not having flexibility.
Please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong though.
At the end of the day, all I wanna do is learn, get better and help new shooters as much as possible.

[Ferrisweil]

Nope. None at all. Been in your shoes. Bought the AR scope against advice and soon realised my mistake.
These guys are not trying to be asshats, they know a thing or two and have probably forgotten more about shooting than you and me currently know.

I can’t talk about previous threads - it I can tell you there is something of a language barrier between newbies and long termers...and I don’t think there is a way to learn that shortfall without moving through the steps yourself...like an old guy telling you to not spend money on the engine of your first car.
If you ask someone who has been around shooting, for their best value scope for 300m - they aren’t going to reply with anything in the budget or economy range - as they have already walked the path...but typically, a newbie won’t want to spend $1500 on a scope - because, put dimply - you don’t know, what you don’t know...but in 5 or 10 years time, you’ll be answering the questions- not asking them - and you’ll be advising on a $1500 scope as well..,

FWIW, in my experience, sure a 50x zoom would be great, but why not upgrade to a laser guided system while you’re at it.

For a rimfire, why you’d need anything beyond 18x baffles me, but then again, I can’t think of anything more boring than shooting rimfire at paper all day...

But then again, that’s just my opinion, and if you love it, who am I to argue

[nightforcenxs]

i own a nightforce nxs 8-32x56 and thats more then enough magnification but are you really gonna put $2420 worth of scope on a rimfire.... no of course not my first 22LR runs just a 3-9x40 leupold vx-2 and its enough. as for your 50x scopes the cheapest half decent one is the nightforce competition and its 15-55x52 but at just over $3000 is it really worth it for a rimfire.... no and as for 80x scopes good luck them march 8-80x56 start at $3790 i would go no more then 12x on a rimfire tbh.

[brett1868]

Scope choice, as controversial as what first center fire rifle one should buy. Personally I consider 2 factors, Intended use and budget then choose the best quality I can find. Zoom is an interesting point as conditions on the day will dictate just how much you can use, I have an 8-80x56 March on the big gun but rarely go over 40x due to mirage, dust or light but on a good day it's great for seeing the holes in targets from the 1000yd line I have S&B PMII 12-50x56 on a couple rifles, NF 8-32x56 on others but all hunting rifles have Leupold 4-12x50 cause I like the low magnification for spotting game quickly. On the rim fire rifles I really like the Bushnell Rimfire series of scopes. Use what you like and fits the budget.

[TassieTiger]

I had the bushnell AR 4.5 / 18 and I have replaced it with a vx2 6-18 for 223 shooting and it is not even in the same arena - the Leo vx2 clarity makes the scope feel like it’s much more powerful. The vx3 6.5-20 is another level again in clarity and crispness.
My bushnell elite 4-32 is a decent scope but to be honest - I should have bought a nightgorce or mark 5 Leopold for similar $$$ (watch this space lol) as the bushnell is great to about 20 x where it then starts to lose crispness And ultimately, it’s just not an outright pleasure to use like the vx3’s.

It’s really hard to explain in type how magnification is NOT everything...
I have a vx3 4-14/50 on my 06 and a friend has a mark 4 4-14/50 on his 6.5. When I look through both scopes side by side - it is like the mark 4 is on 18x vs 14x - that is what clarity and crispness can do.

[sungazer]

I had the bushnell AR 4.5 / 18 and I have replaced it with a vx2 6-18 for 223 shooting and it is not even in the same arena - the Leo vx2 clarity makes the scope feel like it’s much more powerful. The vx3 6.5-20 is another level again in clarity and crispness.
My bushnell elite 4-32 is a decent scope but to be honest - I should have bought a nightgorce or mark 5 Leopold for similar $$$ (watch this space lol) as the bushnell is great to about 20 x where it then starts to lose crispness And ultimately, it’s just not an outright pleasure to use like the vx3’s.

It’s really hard to explain in type how magnification is NOT everything...
I have a vx3 4-14/50 on my 06 and a friend has a mark 4 4-14/50 on his 6.5. When I look through both scopes side by side - it is like the mark 4 is on 18x vs 14x - that is what clarity and crispness can do.

Absolutely true TT. As are Bretts comments. The new prices being thrown around however can vary widely from shop to shop and specials to be had. The Bushnell 6500 Tac Elite I have has dropped in price heaps due to new models and second hand ones are now a really good value proposition but still around $800. A second hand NF BR $1000 a second hand nearly new NF Comp $2300. I consider them good value compared against other High End Brand name scopes which are much more expensive. I have used the March 60* and 80* scopes a few times great scopes but didnt gel with me just a personal fit and feel type of thing.

[Stix]

I had the bushnell AR 4.5 / 18 and I have replaced it with a vx2 6-18 for 223 shooting and it is not even in the same arena - the Leo vx2 clarity makes the scope feel like it’s much more powerful. The vx3 6.5-20 is another level again in clarity and crispness.
My bushnell elite 4-32 is a decent scope but to be honest - I should have bought a nightgorce or mark 5 Leopold for similar $$$ (watch this space lol) as the bushnell is great to about 20 x where it then starts to lose crispness And ultimately, it’s just not an outright pleasure to use like the vx3’s.

It’s really hard to explain in type how magnification is NOT everything...
I have a vx3 4-14/50 on my 06 and a friend has a mark 4 4-14/50 on his 6.5. When I look through both scopes side by side - it is like the mark 4 is on 18x vs 14x - that is what clarity and crispness can do.

Well arent you popular getting quoted twice in a row...

Mate, at the risk of stating the obvious & sounding a bigger tool than i already do...there are several factors that can influence what youve described, & if you arent able to be conciously aware of all those factors individually, its likely you will be fooled into thinking a one scope has a particular advantage/or is better in one area, than another...

Take feild of veiw for example...a 4-14 scope set on 14x that has a wider feild of view, may appear to not have the same magnification as the next one that has a lesser feild of view.

You need to be able to train your eyes to see different aspects of a scope, & then be acutely aware of how those factors influence the style of shooting you do, in order to properly evaluate scopes for your use...

Sharpness
Edge to edge sharpness
Contrast
Colour saturation
Field of View
Vignetting
Chromatic Aberration...are some of the major points to be independently aware of in scope selection ...

Being able to see these things independantly & compare them against others can help immensly in seeing the benefits of one scope over another very similar one...

[TassieTiger]

I didnt notice and am not keeping score. Cough cough. Lol.

100% get what your saying - we’ve had similar conversations in the past. I’m well aware that you yourself, are in the upper echelon of lens comprehension.

In saying that, I’ll never forget the time I actually asked about 12 shooters to gather at a friends place so I could look side by side through various.

The vx3 vs mark 4 I’ve described above is based on a close friend who I can lean on regularly, I must have compared the 4 vs 3x 5-6 times now and each time, conditions are different. The 4 is marginally better to my untrained eyes on every aspect - as it probably should given the extra $5-700 price.

On a clear day without mirage, At 120m with the vx3 on x 14 I can read the name on a target - just, but with the 4 on same x 14, I’m seeing crisp letters.
FOV seems to be similar but edges of leaves within FOV, seem to be crisper in the 4.
Now as you say, this might reverse in fading light or in between shaded points or with other environmental factors ...and I think I’d add - the difference is not enough, at least for me, to warrant an upgrade...but if I was in the market and the difference in price was a couple hundred...barring other factors, I’d def consider.

[Sergeant Hartman]

TT you are wrong mate, my mate bazza, tools me that his mate dan the man who can, bought a 3x9x40 scope from smazon US, and he regularly shoots 1000y with it.

Also i hear that dan is in trouble as he spent too much money that wad not his to begin with

(Pls note this time spelling mistakes are intentional)

[Blackened]

LMAO...Gotta love the selected & targeted moderation...i was wondering how long it would take...

We have humerous attempts meant in good spirit, to try & keep tempers in check, selectively deleted, and yet we have ridiculous statements that are clearly bagging the thread, & thus the credibility of the forum, not to mention many of its well meaning & knowledgeable posters, in a bigoted way, & probably intended to incite argument, left up for the world to see...

Like this for example...
[Edited to remove previously removed content that was reposted.]

So you have removed my polite "blinking Gif reply, clearly questioning the merit of such a ridiculous, insulting & non-relevant post, yet you leave this one up...
Because you know, suggesting a thread is becoming useless, & so shift this perspective for the better with suggestions to upgrade to a laser guided system is in the spirit of the thread & an open welcoming forum...


And this...
[Edited to remove previously removed content that was reposted.]

This is a thread about advising would-be/newbie shooters on the obvious need for higher magnification scopes for target shooting...
Yet, in your moderation, you see it fit that this clearly insulting & ganging up on the OP & bagging him, and others, for target shooting, is worthy of being left up...

Was i misunderstood & people took offence to attempts at humerous compliments of them knowing what they were doing, without resorting to aggressively bagging either side of a clearly misinformed & immaturte arguement,...or is this just an obvious headhunt...

Hooray for censorship & open-minded moderation ... ...just saying...

No doubt this will be moderated too, but i dont think its impolite to state the obvious, that the actions of moderated censorship here dont seem to match the intended & spoken "constitution"...

[TheFirearmEnthusiast]

If your comments were deleted.
It had nothing to do with me Sungazer.
I never reported you.
I have nothing against you.
I think your comments got deleted because your comments were rude/useless/pointless and counter-productive.

[Stix]

The fact that other utterly ignorant & bigoted statements that are clearly intended to incite divisive arguement, are left up, indicates to me that this may targeted at certain people...

Ill keep to myself where i think its coming from...but, it is ridiculously petty & immature...!!...

Whilst its possible to do if not really being invested in the betterment of the forum, i really do struggle to believe that one could seriously censor this way if it were an open minded & non-targeted attack...

[sungazer]

d

[Blackened]

LMAO...Gotta love the selected & targeted moderation...i was wondering how long it would take...

No doubt this will be moderated too, but i dont think its impolite to state the obvious, that the actions of moderated censorship here dont seem to match the intended & spoken "constitution"...

As said in my reply to your private message:

A number of posts in that topic were removed. Some were yours, the majority were not. This was done in a fashion I thought best balanced removing problematic content while maintaining the continuity of the topic, regardless of who posted it.

Any perception of bias against you is your own misperception.

To be blunt mate, I don't give a s**t if someone has been here a day, a decade, whether they share the same views as me or are the polar opposite. It's all the same to me.

In the event I review one of your posts, it's treated exactly the same as had anyone else written the same thing.

You'll notice your reports you made about multiple posts have been actioned. One deleted, one edited.

As always, we will continue to moderate the forum in a way we feel is best for the greater good, and not in a way that is subject to any one member's personal views, feelings, or interpretations.

And as always - viewtopic.php?f=8&t=13280#p224669

[sungazer]

d

[Blackened]

Let's keep it on-topic from here on.

The who / what / why of what was previously posted doesn't matter.

The topic at hand is about scope magnification advice for new shooters.

If you're still here looking to say something outside of that, about the arguments that have come before, don't.

(Not directed at you specifically, Sungazer. Just a general post.)

[Member-Deleted]

I’m the same TFE
I’m really happy with my cheap as Korean made bushnell AR. It does everything it’s meant to do for the shooting that I’m pursuing.
And hey we both had budgets to go by. I still think that for the money they are a good thing.
I’m not silly and I know it’s no good for BR. If I ever down that path then I’d have to get a super expensive specialist BR scope. To be honest I think BR is a little ‘elitist’ for me. It’s like it’s had all the skill sapped out of it and replaced with expensive machinery and if you don’t have all the gear, you have little hope.

I wish I had more magnification too but for under 200m stuff it is great. I don’t have trouble seeing targets at 200 but I can’t see the bullet holes. But now I have a spotting scope for that reason. It’s happy days!

[Sergeant Hartman]

Ahh deano the rabbit Warren gets deeper. I got myself a 36x scope for the 22lr, and no i don't do benchrest... and i didn't even have to sell a kidney. Looking at 100m through a 25x i was going man i need more mag.... is funny how our eyes and senses Adjust and want more and more.

Don't have to do BR to have good equipment.

[Peter988]

Should this discussion be making a distinction between shooting paper and hunting? I am a dinosaur. I still shoot bunnies with the fixed 4x32 I bought in 1970. But I am not seeing bunnies as clearly in the spotlight these days so I I think it’s time to join the new world and go a variable 3-9 power. Surely 18 power would be useless for those 20M shots?

[Member-Deleted]

Should this discussion be making a distinction between shooting paper and hunting? I am a dinosaur. I still shoot bunnies with the fixed 4x32 I bought in 1970. But I am not seeing bunnies as clearly in the spotlight these days so I I think it’s time to join the new world and go a variable 3-9 power. Surely 18 power would be useless for those 20M shots?

We’re talking purely for paper mate. You want a better field of view for bunnys

[SPRINT-GTO]

Any new shooter in the market for a good rimfire scope should take a look at the new Nikko Sterling Hornet ED 10-50 X 60.
Value for money & very good glass at $829 from Oakey. The big store has them for about $40 more & they are giving one away this month to one lucky member.
Read the reviews on this scope & you will be impressed--ideal for benchrest!!
I shoot Nightforce 12-42 x56 & Sightron 10-50 x60 & am keen to get hold of one of these Nikko scopes.