Four Police Dead

[Wm.Traynor]

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-n ... ne-freeway

Makes me wonder what they were all doing in the Emergency Lane. Maybe they had nowhere else to stop the Porsche driver Unless I am in error, those lanes are for emergencies only. Maybe the truckie had a real need to get off the road. Helluva situation

[AussieCapitalist]

Well they pulled over old mate Porsche for "speeding" and called for backup from an unmarked car. That's where the other 2 cops came from. I wonder if old mate Porsche called for help from old mate in the truck and this was deliberate? Something fishy is going on. You do not call for backup for a speeding stop unless there is more to it.. So there must be more to the story about why they pulled him over.

We have seen terrorist attacks with vehicles all the time. Could this be a pincer movement where old mate Porsche distracted them whilst old mate truck did his thing?

Lets wait and see what happens.

[Sergeant Hartman]

Well in VIC like NSW we have the ridiculous 40kph speed limit when emergency lights flashing. With is always fkn crazy driving along at 100kph and the people infront of you hop of their brakes to drop to 40kph.

This 41 year old porche driver was pulled over with his car being impounded. Plenty of times i have seen cops pull people over and they will always park in the emergency lane on freeway.

Some initial reports the truck driver had a medical episode. Whatever the case if the driver is negligent sure the book be thrown at him... like any other negligent driver..... but if not who will blame the medical episode or the 40kph speed limit causing a brake fault on the truck.

[No1Mk3]

G'day Wm.Traynor,
You are in error, the emergency lane is where people stop when pulled over, so that is where the cops stop.Breakdown bays are few and far between and you are going to get in serious trouble if you don't stop when required.The truck driver, unless he had a medical issue, is going to be reamed for failing to slow to 40kph before reaching a police vehicle displaying lights. In this case we will have to wait and see whether a medical incident happened prior to the accident or whether some other factor was involved. Either way the truck driver will lose his heavy endorsement, and if inattention or fatigue was involved he will go to jail.

[Sergeant Hartman]

I den quite a few times trucks locking up on the freeway as they come up to an emergency vehicle.

But the truck veered off the road onto the emergency lane... unless he had a medical episode hes in big trouble... but then 4 people lost their lives... So he should

[Wm.Traynor]

No1Mk3,
I did not know that mate; thank you.
And just between us two, I think I might be confusing it with an Emergency Stop Lane, which you find on steep descents for vehicles that cannot take a bend. don't get old mate

[Aliqua]

In a previous post, I mentioned that I was in law enforcement. To be a little more specific, I was in Highway Patrol.

The Police are going to be as transparent as they can with regards to this investigation, but you have to understand that this, just like every intercept was a very dynamic scenario. Furthermore, they can only release so much information without it jeopardising both the investigation itself, and the court proceedings that follow (when certain information gets released to the public, they can no longer use it as evidence in court).

"You do not call for backup for a speeding stop unless there is more to it.. So there must be more to the story about why they pulled him over."
You do, and we did always call for another unit to attend when a vehicle was being impounded. Vehicles can be impounded for a number of reasons: 1) exceeding the speed limit by 45km/h or more. 2) repeat offences including drink driving (or first offence over a certain amount), drug driving, etc. It has been alleged that the driver was under the influence of drugs at the time of driving and has extensive priors, therefor the vehicle was being impounded. The backup is called for a number of reasons - 1) transport of the offender - highway patrol cars are just normal sedans/wagons and if they believe that the person will not co-operate, they may call for another unit in a divisional van to transport on their behalf. 2) the additional unit is there to provide additional corroboration in relation to any road-side interview that may be conducted. In addition, if you have just been told that you are going have your vehicle impounded for a period of 30 days, and the cost to get the vehicle back is in excess of 1500$, not to mention immediate suspension of your licence for the period of 6-12 months (depending on the offences) and you are going to have to goto court... and now you throw into the mix that the driver was allegedly drug affected (certain unpredictabilities come to mind), backup is the first choice of any police officer.

"Well in VIC like NSW we have the ridiculous 40kph speed limit when emergency lights flashing."
This came in after I left the job, but I don't think you are not wrong. I don't think this message was delivered very well to the community. My understanding is that this is more intended for residential and lower speed roads (such as residential 50 - 60kmh) and to expect any member of the public to drop from 100km/h to 40km/h on a highway in itself is dangerous (personal opinion).

"The truck driver, unless he had a medical issue, is going to be reamed for failing to slow to 40kph before reaching a police vehicle displaying lights."
This was introduced after I left the force, but I think they have other offences they may be focussing on (again depending on medical), such as culpable driving causing death x4, dangerous/careless driving just to name a couple.

--

N.B. Before you reply or quote me, please note I am only trying to provide some insight into this discussion to clear up a few things that people have said. I mean no disrespect or offence to anyone by quoting you - just directing my clarifications to certain comments . I believe everyone is entitled to an opinion but if something can be clarified, it should be. I don't mean to sound abrupt or rude - I'm just trying to state what I know and provide some insight into this horrific event and put things into perspective.

[marksman]

no matter how or why it did happen its a very sad day for the police, RIP

appreciate your incite Aliqua

[Aliqua]

R.I.P

[Bill]

The Truck driver,

https://www.facebook.com/18554490980323 ... 25733/?d=n

it was predicted by many that forcing to slow traffic to 40kmh would end in a death and it looks like thats the case as the truck may have been swerving to avoid suddenly slowing traffic.

Porker driver was mortgage broker

https://www.smh.com.au/national/victori ... 54mfw.html

A tragic accident and for all involved. Dealing with the driver and car in that location should have been avoided, They could have quite easily removed the car straight away after the failed drug test.

Accident occurred at 5.40pm, Sunset is at 5.42pm I wonder if the light conditions played a part ??

[Stix]

Ill start by stating the obvious, this is a tradgedy/an horrific accident, & my thoughts go out to all those affected, particularly the families & close friends of these poor coppers...
____ ____ ____ ____ ___


Now...
As a completely seperate note to that, ill say that in this day & age of utterly stupid & over the top Occ safety etc...i am amazed that police pull cars over on the freeway...

When i was a young teenager, i was pulled over by a copper while giving my slightly warm EH a bit of a blurt up a fairly big hill in Adelaides burbs...his lights going, then sirens...
Now there was no where to pull over, so i continued on to a park off the side of the road--if id have stopped where he wanted me too, on a bloody left hand bend of all places... , where you cannot really get a car off the road, both he & i wouldve been in danger--particularly him...

When we finally met, this guy was in absolute hysterics & pulled his bloody gun--i explained to him the logic in my not pulling over & he eventually calmed down & let me go--but not without a good bloody ribbing...
(My car was a bit of a looker & sounded nice, so often got pulled over by the coppers with them always citing "we've had reports of this car being stolen... it was like cracked record--and not due to me being a cowboy--for various reasons i liked to avoid the boys in blue when i was younger... )...

Also, coming back from a shooting trip earlier this yar, i encountered a copper having pulled a car over on our SE freeway--within the last 30 mins coming into Adelaide--now they were also on a bend--all be it with much better vision than my last example--but they had their car straddling well out into the lane, with the person pulled over obviously having stopped in a bit of a panic also part way out in the lane...now all the traffic goes into a bloody panic to slow down to this stupid "speed limit" law we have when emergency services lights are seen...

All we need is someone not paying complete attention, & this only needs to be for a split second at the critical moment, a sudden down pour, or wet roads after a long dry, one, or more semi's as they often travel in convoy down our steep decent into town, (although im aware they often have a heads up with UHF warnings from their fellow cobbers.. ), afully laden semi not able to stop in time or able to change lanes because of everyone in a frantic panic to pull up, & i tell ya folks, we have a recipe for this exact kind of disaster...

I think, on freeways atleast, they shpould allow for (in design & construction) extra lanes on exits, & for emergency pull-ups, for EVERYONES safety, NOT pull people up on freeways--period...!!

Anyway...just my thoughts...i dont have all the answers, not even a fraction of them, but to my mind there is this term us smart folk use these days to make well evaluated choices, particularly in dangerous &/or occupational settings like shooting, & such as this tragic example above---its called "risk management"...& if coppers call off hi speed chases based on "risk management principles"...it leaves me absolutely flabbergasted that some coppers will/are allowed to pull a car over on a busy section of freeway--talk about putting your faith in the gods...sheesh...

[Wombat]

Accident occurred at 5.40pm, Sunset is at 5.42pm I wonder if the light conditions played a part ??

They would have been driving west or slightly south west - into the sun.

[Blr243]

I passed out once and drove up onto the nature strip and crashed into a tree. ( I vaguely remember applying the brakes as I lost consciousness so that my accident would be less severe ) It was not fatigue and not drugs and not booze I just passed out , it can happen but it’s incredibly rare. Only happened once in 33 years of driving ..medical episode or not , if that truck driver tests positive for drugs he’s screwed

[Sergeant Hartman]

Thanks for your insight Aquilia.

[Grandadbushy]

My thoughts go to the victims ,their friends and families, this is sad for all totally uncalled for as this driver had priors for speeding according to the news, being stupid for where it took place, what was going on as far as something doesn't add up, is like seeing your cow out and you wonder what part of the fence it got through . you won't find out until it is looked into further ,so it's the same with this accident it will become clearer when all the facts are in and sorted, trying to create a scenario without the facts is difficult and sometimes far away from the actual happenings but lets hope the police use this tragic accident to look at different ways they do pull overs or even to find out if it had anything to do with the accident at all, I hope this accident wasn't in vain and is carefully checked when the facts are in to clean up areas of potential danger points when working on freeways as sometimes with us all, safety sometimes takes a back seat .Just my thoughts

[AussieCapitalist]

How many times have we seen drunk, drug and speeding drivers kill people and get off with only community service. Their sorry, their dad hurt them as kids, they have remorse blah blah. There was one old women the other day who killed 3 people and only got community service. I think off the top of my head she ran a stop sign.

I bet because its civil servants involved the judge will be more harsh on old mate truck driver for that simple fact alone. Unless of course he did this on purpose.

[Farmerpete]

Have been following this story its incredibly tragic
my understanding is they stopped the Porsche driver for doing 140 and decided to impound because he had more than one court date already set for other matters. (Seems they know him really well)

The truck driver blacked out after the accident and was taken to hospital for the medical episode. then tested for drug and alcohol

The police raided his house and said they found stuff but wouldn't comment on what that stuff was or whether it would cause blackouts because it was part of the investigation.

The germ of a driver of the Porsche took some photos of the dead police added them to Facebook and ran away... handed himself in the next morning after he figured out they knew who he was.

If he wasn't speeding this wouldn't have happened I hope he gets held at least somewhat accountable.

[AussieCapitalist]

Just saw the name of the truck driver. Lets just say its not John Smith or Hans Schmidt. If what you said was right farmerpete and they found things in his house than this Is looking like terrorism. Few days before Anzac day, an attack on government civil servants whilst in a state of lockdown. Its possible.

[Blr243]

I my line of work I have to deal with normal people ,dirtbags , and nice people But the police have to deal with dirtbags every single day

[Stix]

Just saw the name of the truck driver. Lets just say its not John Smith or Hans Schmidt. If what you said was right farmerpete and they found things in his house than this Is looking like terrorism. Few days before Anzac day, an attack on government civil servants whilst in a state of lockdown. Its possible.

Gees...sorry mate...but thats just such a stretch at this point its not funny...& it probably says more about you than the driver at this point...

What did they find...?...you dont know do you... ...It could be drugs...it could be child porn...it could be a stolen handbag...it could be a tradies stolen cordless drill...but you base a solid suggestion on name alone...

This is exactly why the coppers dont release info, because people come to projecting far fetched random issues on innocent people...and at this point he sjould be given the same respect as you would want if you were the one driving the truck...a presumption of innocence...

I wonder if you are you a reporter for channel nine...?

[Bugman]

My heartfelt condolences to the families of these officers, their colleagues, and their friends. All we can do now, as members of the public, is to let justice find it's way.

[TassieTiger]

I wasnt going to post in this thread - it’s just so darn shocking.
I know It’s human nature to speculate but given the tragedy...condolences to all involved - CV 19 is not going to make it easier...

[Stix]

Personally, i dont think its "nature" to assume a fellow human is so evil...mind you dont get me wrong, i am fully understanding where thoughts come from...!!...& while there are exceptions, we humans are by nature are empathetic creatures...

I think we're indoctrinated with these type of beliefs because that is how we see the world every day--our media see the worst in people, or any story...

I think its kind of a drug/high/endorphins type response we get from the sensational side of things, & unfortunately that promotes not using ones natural inquisitive-ness (cant think of the word i need here) & so we take the easy reward road & jump to conclusions...our style of information delivery comes with, & encourages a certain kind of disconnect to our fellow man..& we flow with this, until of course it happens to us.

The whole Greta climate change thing with any such differing questions being met with an incredibly horrific level of hatred & persecution is a perfect example of this...

I once knew a girl whos sister disapeared & was murdered...the case still remains unsolved to this day & will no doubt never be solved...one of those big time media stories at the time...instead of the community getting behind her & her family with an empathetic nurturing strength, everyone looked at & treated her & her family like she was a freak...as if the trauma of loosing a sister wasnt bad enough, the public response to her literally destroyed who she once was...it was as if she had a lobotomy to make her the poster girl for the definition of being neurotic...

If that guy (truck driver) isnt a terrorist & has a wife kids, i think they should be afforded the respect we would want for your/our wife & kids, because they will be the ones who really suffer the public jury...
If the time comes where he is proven guilty as suggested above, then gut the kunt alive...!!...but ONLY then...!!

Just my thoughts...not trying to be argumentative...

[Grandadbushy]

Unfortunately I have to sway with Stix on this one, what was found could have been anything ,( yes they could have been things to combine with terrorism but the facts aren't out) so lets not turn this tragic accident into a ''He said, She said , What if , Could be'' episode lets wish the Officers well on their last journey and feel for their kin and friends , after all they are human and yes I hope the guilty pay so lets let the powers deal with the arsehole car driver that caused the incident in the first place as they are the only facts out there ,of what he's done and done after the accident and lets not accuse any other person until the facts have been tabled it doesn't do either side any good . lets try and show a little respect for the deceased and give them out humblest thoughts to take with them.

[Sergeant Hartman]

Just saw the name of the truck driver. Lets just say its not John Smith or Hans Schmidt. If what you said was right farmerpete and they found things in his house than this Is looking like terrorism. Few days before Anzac day, an attack on government civil servants whilst in a state of lockdown. Its possible.

Rotfl.... have to say you are not just dumb... but a dumb racist. The name is of Sikh origin from India. thousands of thousands people from punjab in India have immigrated to Australia and been driving trucks... there was a joke that in India the name linfox is more famous/familiar than don Bradman... and we all know Indians love cricket. Ohh the terrorists lately been Buddhist monks and Muslim origin.

Anyway apparently some newspapers have reported there was a bong beside the driver (ice)... which implies that They might have found some drugs in his house.

[Norton]

Just saw the name of the truck driver. Lets just say its not John Smith or Hans Schmidt. If what you said was right farmerpete and they found things in his house than this Is looking like terrorism. Few days before Anzac day, an attack on government civil servants whilst in a state of lockdown. Its possible.

Mate... what the f*** are you talking about?

No one has said anything about terrorism except for you.

Take the tin foil hat off and show a bit of respect for the seriousness of the events instead of trying to drum up some drama by spouting this complete s**t.

[Bill]

What I find disappointing are the Police leaks before a full and proper investigation has been conducted, this situation shouldn't have even have happened hadn't Vic Police and Vic Politicians forced traffic to screaming halt braking from 100kmh to 40kmh.

They were warned that lives would most certainly be lost. And now this tragic event has occured

Fact is we have truck drivers using stimulants and we are always going to have hoons on the road, but we've never had stupid decision like this forcing the traffic to come to a screaming halt whilst Police issue traffic infringement notices in dangerous location.

I saw first hand on the M4 Sydney how silly this law was when we had it in NSW. Driving into an late afternoon sun 6 or 7 cars rear ended right where a HWP was booking a customer near Prospect.

Ive also experienced a smart copper asking me to keep on driving twice and take the first exit before being booked. I hope that the Victorian govt takes note that placing Police lives in harms way should have been avoided.

[Grandadbushy]

All valid points Bill but this fella had priors for running and speeding so that may have been the only place and chance they had to stop him , who knows what took place in the pursuit and the actual stopping of him or what was going on up till the accident just snippet's of info leaked out, there's bound to be heaps of stuff come out of this but it's tragic none the less . I'm in Qld i'm not aware of limits like that you speak of like 100klm hr down to 40klm hr that in itself sounds dangerous especially for a laden semi and having the sun in your face to-boot.

[Bill]

Grandadbushy was there a pursuit ?? he willingly pulled over as I understand it and underwent an alcohol and drug test. There was nothing stopping them moving the vehicle off the road straight away or escorting him to the nearest exit which was nearby. the accident occurred 50 mins after the car was pulled over. It a stupid law and it needs to be removed ASAP

[Stix]

Rotfl.... have to say you are not just dumb... but a dumb racist. The name is of Sikh origin from India. thousands of thousands people from punjab in India have immigrated to Australia and been driving trucks... there was a joke that in India the name linfox is more famous/familiar than don Bradman... and we all know Indians love cricket. Ohh the terrorists lately been Buddhist monks and Muslim origin.

Anyway apparently some newspapers have reported there was a bong beside the driver (ice)... which implies that They might have found some drugs in his house.

Im kind of feeling like im a lover tonight...not a hater... ..that is despite my posts that probably seem confrontational (but im genuinely not trying to be confrontational...!! )

I think youre being a bit harsh.

I dont want to sound like a hippocritic asshoal...baarrrt...AC has just let his mouth slip & as such is not guilty of any more than what our media is guilty of producing hours & hours of every single day...& we both know there are many people that easily fall for the media's style of propoganda dont we..

I dont think he's dumb, at all...& i think his logic & passion in regard to firearms laws in this country are what we could do a little more of here... i also think he's new isnt he , so we shouldnt bash him for a comment--Ramshackle was the only one ive met that is worthy of such a large volume of manly-ness in one hit... Oh...!!...which reminds me--i hope you use good safety glasses with your new Pard Tassie... ....

Anyway...bringing up Indians as being a good defense with so many of them being drivers might not be your best arguement in this country-even all Indians i know would second me on that...!! ...-& im speaking of many decades of experience having hopped in many a cab in some capital cities on this rock, & all i can say is a lot of those fellas were lucky i wasnt an immigration occifer...( )

Anyway...be nice tonight...feel the love...