Fishing.

[Stix]

Interesting show today on ABC radio today, about fish, (or as this guy says-"fish'es"), their behavior, & our perceptions of them.

No doubt this will be snubbed by many, & ill get the usual backlash from people whom think they know what a fish feels, but i for one have always questioned why so many of us put a value on treating a land animal with respect when it comes to dispatching it, yet we're happy to let a fish effectively drown, or suffocate a slow death over many hours.

Ive also wondered if this is just our naive & stupidly simplistic way of thinking (or not not thinking), that just because we dont recognise facial expressions or noises, we assume they dont have any cognition or feel any stress or pain...

Well, on the odd occasion i ever get out in a boat, im looked at like im a weirdo by the boating regulars, all because i always snap the neck of whiting & squid as soon as they're off the hook, & give bigger fish the blunt force trauma or screw driver to the brain treatment.

This guy has done some interesting research...worth a listen for anyone who wonders about the conciousness of fish & how we treat them when we hunt them.
So If you've got a spare 50 mins & have an interest, give it an ear...

https://www.abc.net.au/radio/programs/c ... n/12236632

Listening to it today, i feel a bit better for all those whiting & squid ive played hitman ninja to before i drop em in the slurry...

[Peter988]

In my opinion the eating quality is much better if the fish is killed immediately then placed in a ice slurry. I do it with any fish I keep.

[Bugman]

Must admit, that I like to eat the odd bit of fish, but I buy it from the fish mongers. When I go fishing, I use barb less hooks and if I am lucky enough to catch something, then let it go straight away. People I go with think I am a bid weird ....and in some cases...they are probably right.

[Blr243]

I Definitely kill them instantly Otherwise we are just completely dumb if we think they are not suffering

[poid]

yep same, I've never distinguished between 'fish' and 'other' and so IMO they should all be treated humanely. I've always dispatched them immediately if I'm keeping them. I assumed everyone did that; everyone I fish with does it.

[Blr243]

Live worms should never be segmented and pushed onto hooks. Imagine on fishing show tv , if somebody halved a chihuahua, put part of it on a big hook and throw it out into the burley trail

[PaddyT]

Didnt watch the vid but yeah-absolutely-kill the fish quickly and efficiently. These days i brain spike everything i catch and am ""coring"" most fish as well. Certain species dont release well eg tailor, spanish macks, deepwater fish of most species and i will move away from those once i've got a feed. Im still not sold on the idea of fish feeling pain in the same way as we do - there have been plenty of studies claiming they do and plenty that they dont. When releasing fish try to do it without lifting them out of the water and try to minimise handling.

[JimTom]

Had never put that much thought into it mate. Spanish Mackerel definitely get a dong on the head (so you don’t end up with a set of 8/0 gangs in your leg)then bled to improve eating quality. I bleed the Barra too but bream and grunter etc, I generally just put in the esky on ice.

[Stix]

Live worms should never be segmented and pushed onto hooks. Imagine on fishing show tv , if somebody halved a chihuahua, put part of it on a big hook and throw it out into the burley trail

Well....
The chihuahua that once ripped a hunk of flesh out of my hand after me feeding it, deserved such an education...

[Blr243]

I’m ok with booting loud stupid little dogs to put them back in their place but not hard enough to seriously injure them I was on a building site about a year ago and two little fluffy things smaller than chihuahua came into the yard and tried to bite me ... it’s the first time I have ever been laughing while attacked by dogs usually it’s scary and I have to fight hard but this time I just concentrated on kicking them gently to avoid hurting them and they went away

[TassieTiger]

I’m guilty of throwing fish into a bin and moving on - I guess it was handed down methods from my grand parents. But I’ve ironically- taught my kids to spike everyone and endure it’s dead - but if I’m dead honest, I did this to calm them, slow them down - when the fish are on it can be hectic and it’s easy to get blinkers on and carried away....

[Oldbloke]

I've always humanely dispatched. Donga or knife. They are are a living thing after all.

[Blr243]

If they opened their mouths and let out a blood curdling scream everyone would be more aware and probably do the right thing but they just sort of flap around

[TassieTiger]

I went spear fishing off Gold Coast seaway - shot a long nose pike and that thing screamed underwater - I got paranoid that a shark would hear it. Can hear to this day...took me by surprise.

[Harrynsw]

I went spear fishing off Gold Coast seaway - shot a long nose pike and that thing screamed underwater - I got paranoid that a shark would hear it. Can hear to this day...took me by surprise.

What did You hear Tassie?

In recent years iv been fishing the stones for species like Rock blackfish (pigs) and Luderick, which are omnivores so they have to bled (other wise the flavour is heavy with weed) which usually gets done right away.

[Archie]

I’ve said this before here, and I say it as a person who loves fishing and fishes at least once a month, but - if the way we got lamb chops was to hide a barbed hook in the grass, and when the lamb hooks itself through it’s cheek we then used it to winch the lamb across a paddock on a cable, I reckon there would be a lot more vegetarians than there are.

This is one reason I think catch and release fishing is unethical. If you aren’t going to eat animals, don’t wound them for s**ts and giggles. If you are going to eat them, get the killing done quickly and well.

[Blr243]

Archie. Dead right. Fish don’t scream If they could scream there would be no fishing shows. But when u catch one that’s too small or tastes terrible it goes back in the water ...and despite the trauma of the reel in the fish is happy to return to water to carry on living instead of meeting the thick end of a pool cue .....I can’t bag fishermen when I hunt for sport so I should shut up

[scoot]

Fishing is ok because you don't use a gun. Guns are bad mmmkay. That's why there's 9x1876*.23 fishing shows on tv and no hunting shows.

[Blr243]

If the fishing shows were underwater with spearguns it might not get on tv. But fishing has been taught from father to son for thousands of years. When we are 5 years old the excitement of catching our first fish is a positive experience....and we don’t forget that. We end up loving fishing forever for what it is. At the end of the day most people love sinking their teeth into a nice char grilled steak , but they just don’t want to know about how it ended up on their plate

[TassieTiger]

Agreed blr - I think it’s now illegal to even video inside abattoirs and/or upload about iT...

[Stix]

Yep...as someone here said somewhere, we've lost our ability & understanding of what it really takes to survive...

I remember as a kid seeing a doco about a nomadic African tribe that had a huge spiritual ceremony that lasted for a couple of days, all for the slaughter of one of their goats...which was to be for a feast in celebration of one of the tribes "daughters" getting married.

I used to think they were nuts--its only an animal ffs...& i was only a kid out blowing away bunnies...

But when you have to look an animal you have wounded in the eye to put it down at close range with a shot to the brain & its offspring audibly distressed somewhere nearby, then taste that meat while regurgitating thoughts & feelings surrounding how it met its end...it gives you a deeper respect life...& for me, an intrinsic understanding of how that ceremony represents a deeply held respect that African tribe have/had for all life, & how precious it was/is....
Something our modern culture seemingly has little to no idea about in my opinion.

The fact this isnt shown because people label the act of killing as offensive & cruel, rather than understanding its actually confronting & not having facing the emotional conflict that arises, is just forcing society to become piss weak & over-entitled...it by enlarge makes us less empathetic...

[TassieTiger]

Archie. Dead right. Fish don’t scream If they could scream there would be no fishing shows. But when u catch one that’s too small or tastes terrible it goes back in the water ...and despite the trauma of the reel in the fish is happy to return to water to carry on living instead of meeting the thick end of a pool cue .....I can’t bag fishermen when I hunt for sport so I should shut up

They do underwater mate.
@ Harry - I heard the long nose like scream a high pitched squeal underwater, think muffled rabbit, it did it several times before it expired. There has to be videos / sound recording - it startled the s**t out of me.

[TassieTiger]

Yep...as someone here said somewhere, we've lost our ability & understanding of what it really takes to survive...

I remember as a kid seeing a doco about a nomadic African tribe that had a huge spiritual ceremony that lasted for a couple of days, all for the slaughter of one of their goats...which was to be for a feast in celebration of one of the tribes "daughters" getting married.

I used to think they were nuts--its only an animal ffs...& i was only a kid out blowing away bunnies...

But when you have to look an animal you have wounded in the eye to put it down at close range with a shot to the brain & its offspring audibly distressed somewhere nearby, then taste that meat while regurgitating thoughts & feelings surrounding how it met its end...it gives you a deeper respect life...& for me, an intrinsic understanding of how that ceremony represents a deeply held respect that African tribe have/had for all life, & how precious it was/is....
Something our modern culture seemingly has little to no idea about in my opinion.

The fact this isnt shown because people label the act of killing as offensive & cruel, rather than understanding its actually confronting & not having facing the emotional conflict that arises, is just forcing society to become piss weak & over-entitled...it by enlarge makes us less empathetic...

You have a way with words Stix - what you’ve managed to describe is one reason I won’t shoot whSt I can’t use...

[Stix]

Yep...as someone here said somewhere, we've lost our ability & understanding of what it really takes to survive...

I remember as a kid seeing a doco about a nomadic African tribe that had a huge spiritual ceremony that lasted for a couple of days, all for the slaughter of one of their goats...which was to be for a feast in celebration of one of the tribes "daughters" getting married.

I used to think they were nuts--its only an animal ffs...& i was only a kid out blowing away bunnies...

But when you have to look an animal you have wounded in the eye to put it down at close range with a shot to the brain & its offspring audibly distressed somewhere nearby, then taste that meat while regurgitating thoughts & feelings surrounding how it met its end...it gives you a deeper respect life...& for me, an intrinsic understanding of how that ceremony represents a deeply held respect that African tribe have/had for all life, & how precious it was/is....
Something our modern culture seemingly has little to no idea about in my opinion.

The fact this isnt shown because people label the act of killing as offensive & cruel, rather than understanding its actually confronting & not having facing the emotional conflict that arises, is just forcing society to become piss weak & over-entitled...it by enlarge makes us less empathetic...

You have a way with words Stix - what you’ve managed to describe is one reason I won’t shoot whSt I can’t use...

Only because you dont have foxes there mate... ...well not "full bodied" ones anyway...

And from memory, the link in the original post delves into those noises you talk about, that are made by fish.
es they are studied...& they have proven that fish have memories & experience some levels of distress...its all a matter of finding ways to to demonstrate it.

In fact, in that audio, the scientist makes a point by example of that "memory like a goldfish" is anything but true...& that they do infact display emotional responses to different stimulie & people in the room when in a bowl/tank as pets...

Just thinking about it, if they dont have an active nervous system, why do they shake hooks--or try to shake hooks...?...
Any real fisherman knows that feeling of a snappers head shakes, & know the importance of tension on the line or they will shake that hook--because thats exactly what theyre trying to do... ...& i cant imagine that being an overly good experience for even the least emotionally responsive fof fishes...

And i guess i ask myself why it is generally assumed they dont feel pain or distress...so do they "feel" the hook embed & know its no good but dont feel pain...?...Dunno...that suggestion just doesnt hold weight in my mind...
Its generally scientifically proven that pain is a response required for survival--so if a chicken feels it, why wouldnt the fish...

because we are programmed to sense an emotional response largely through facial expression--so if we stick a hook in a childs mouth, or dogs mouth, & lift it off the ground & see it in pain but cant hear it, we still react through empathy...but a fish doesnt have the ability for great facial expressiveness--yet they obviously communicate...

Maybe its a combo of us being so far removed from them now in evolutionary ways & the thrill of that feeling on the end of the line that we fail to recognise & therefor empathise with any feelings of distress the fish might have...

I remember as a young kid my ol man caught a fish & it was on a big plastic tray, still alive-albeit just-, yet to be gutted & ready to be prepped & cooked...i was fascinated & got a knife & was poking its eyes & watching them react...hbrhbrhbrhbrhbrhr. (thats my best text representation of a cold shiver-- )...i cringe & feel bad now for doing that, & knowing that it got gutted while alive, as many do--

Ive been on a commercial fisho's boat & was really challenged at what he does to gummy sharks while alive--no attempts at stunning--just right into them with a knife.
I made mention of it politely, & he was respectful enough after that point to slice the back of their heads for me...but i doubt hes done it since...

I know im a bloody woos eh...!!... ...

[TassieTiger]

It’s funny that you mention kids poking at fish - get 10 young boys and 10 young girls and 10 fish caught alive...I bet that 9 of 10 boys will poke and prod and touch it’s eyes etc but only 1 girl will do the same...humans are bloody weird...

[Stix]

Well that would only be the case in the old fashioned bigoted mindset of assuming there are only two genders...!!!...

[ash_hendo]

The world is a weird place, I've had people who eat cheap caged chicken from who-knows-where say I shouldn't kill a rabbit and eat it.... The rabbit had a pretty normal life and was snuffed out instantly, compared to the poor caged chicken...... mmmm

[Stix]

The world is a weird place, I've had people who eat cheap caged chicken from who-knows-where say I shouldn't kill a rabbit and eat it.... The rabbit had a pretty normal life and was snuffed out instantly, compared to the poor caged chicken...... mmmm

Mate...to people like that, i ask them who killed their meat...then i question who they are to question my ethics, when they pass the death of a caged animal on as someone elses responsibility...


Its just a really shallow minded mentality some people have...if those types--most people infact--were to follow an animal from birth to death, being in the --lets say lamb/sheeps--life on a regular basis, then follow it through the stress of the necessities of farming--like mulesing etc--transport to the feed lot for fattening up for purposes of value adding to the existing monetry value of feed & meat, then the further stress of transport to the abattoir & watch it freak out as its forced up the race to get nailed, stuck, bled, dressed & butchered...only to take a few kilo's home & cook a chop & eat it--most people would loose their appetite & go without a meal for the night--or eat toast or something...

Mince a bunny & add a squidge of pork fat, rosemary, cooked red onion & pepper & a binder, then make patties & have those folks over for chicken or pork burgers...they'll love em...!!

Then take them to the shop & show them how to pick their own, handing them your rifle & pointing to a bunny...

[ash_hendo]

The world is a weird place, I've had people who eat cheap caged chicken from who-knows-where say I shouldn't kill a rabbit and eat it.... The rabbit had a pretty normal life and was snuffed out instantly, compared to the poor caged chicken...... mmmm

Mate...to people like that, i ask them who killed their meat...then i question who they are to question my ethics, when they pass the death of a caged animal on as someone elses responsibility...


Its just a really shallow minded mentality some people have...if those types--most people infact--were to follow an animal from birth to death, being in the --lets say lamb/sheeps--life on a regular basis, then follow it through the stress of the necessities of farming--like mulesing etc--transport to the feed lot for fattening up for purposes of value adding to the existing monetry value of feed & meat, then the further stress of transport to the abattoir & watch it freak out as its forced up the race to get nailed, stuck, bled, dressed & butchered...only to take a few kilo's home & cook a chop & eat it--most people would loose their appetite & go without a meal for the night--or eat toast or something...

Mince a bunny & add a squidge of pork fat, rosemary, cooked red onion & pepper & a binder, then make patties & have those folks over for chicken or pork burgers...they'll love em...!!

Then take them to the shop & show them how to pick their own, handing them your rifle & pointing to a bunny...

Good idea! And you are correct, they just "ignore" the process and pass the buck as "someone else's responsibility". And you're doing the environment a bit of good ridding it of a bunny...

[TassieTiger]

Maybe a lot of the global problems we experience- boils down to simplistic things like this...detachment. imagine that everyone knew where their food came from - that cattle was alive, that lamb had a mother who cared for it, etc - maybe, just maybe a forced education on such things would improve compassion and empathy enough to better the world...or would result in a huge outpouring of vegans whom would ban guns and ... s**t. Stop that. Reverse...beep beep beep.