Same 357/ 38 special loads for pistol and rifle

[Tubs]

What would be an ideal 357 or 38 special load that could be used in both a Ruger GP100 revolver and a lever action rifle?

Rifle would be used for vermin control. Load needs to be hot enough for rifle but not too hot for for the revolver. Note the GP100 is a tank and will tolerate +P rounds without even breaking up a sweat.

I have 38 125gn flat round lead, 9mm 125 conical lead coated, 9mm 135 round lead coated projectiles and AP50, 450 powder

Thanks

[Blr243]

Only revolver I ever had in 357 was a model 66 smith ..I preferred to have rifle power in my hunting ammo so I loaded separate ammo. so I think from memory I used liquid paper to clearly mark the Rossi only cases to ensure I never blew up my revolver .....if I only loaded one load I would be pushing the boundaries on my revolver and not taking advantage of the ability of my lever action

[Bugman]

Not a good idea to use a rifle load in a revolver. Rifle for hunting and pistol for target shooting. Just for an experiment I loaded some 357 cases for target shooting and used them in a 357 lever action with pretty poor results accuracy wise plus would have most probably been poor in the killing department. Used some 357 factory ammo for target shooting in the S&W with less than acceptable accuracy at 25m however in the lever action, they performed well.

[Tubs]

Yes, target pistol loads would be asthmatic in the rifle. I can shoot 357 magnum factory ammo accurately but it does jar the bones a bit, even with a 6 inch barrel. Its a GP 100 which is probably the most solid 357 revolver in the market.

[Bugman]

Yes. I have had a couple of Rugers and they were very well built and could take a bit of punishment with harder loads. Especially the single action ones.

[wrenchman]

i have a gp and a henry steel boy i just loaded up some stuff to run in both i got 125grain speer hollow points on top of 18 grains of h110 and 158 speer flat on top of 15 grains of h110
i loaded them just before the covid shut down am am still still waiting for ranges to open both are loaded on the low side of the books but the 125 grain stuff should push 2000 fps and 158 graing stuff 1800 fps out of the henry.
reloading stuff is getting hard to find i am low on small pistol primers and no one seems to have any around me.
i have been looking at new land to hunt to but the shut down has messed that up to

[Tiger650]

I have shot my rifle load of 15gn AR2205 / 158gn XTP out of a mate's revolver, was not hard on the revolver but muzzle flash in low light was most impressive.
I rarely shoot a pistol but imagine that any load like mine developed for a 16" or 20" bbl would probably generate similar fireworks and waste a lot of powder.

[Tubs]

Dumb question, do I need to use Magnum small pistol primers or will normal small pistol primers work ok on 357 loads....

[Bugman]

I use small pistol primers for my 357. Magnum primers are for use with slower burning powders and the likes of 44mag, 45 ACP etc.

[wrenchman]

i run magnum if i am loading 357 and small for 38s i load all my 38s on the low side becouse i have 2 38 guns oner 100 year old and dont want to beat them up.

[mickb]

Just a few things with your post.

The first one is the revolver and assuming thats a 357(?)its going to handle similar pressures to most modern levers, so its not going to be a case of having to reduce loads for the revolver.Which lever action is it btw?Likely no problem using one load in both, its just trial and error to see if an accurate load in one means an accurate load in another.

The velocity gain in the lever action will depend on the powder charge and pressure of the rounds.

For standard 38 special or +P loads which are usually only 4-6 grains of powder in the case and pressures under 18k PSI, you usually get about 120-180fps from the longer barrel of the lever action.

For mid power loads, like 7-9 grains of medium burner powders( CFE pistol, Unique, etc), you might find an increase of 200-300fps from the longer barrel of the lever. This makes an easy shooting revolver load, but also decent close range velocity from a lever action as you are pushing 1500fps

For full house loads, which means 12-20 grains of magnum powder in the 357 running over 35K PSI the lever action can get you up to 500fps more velocity, so you are into 2000fps with 140 grain bullets level.

As to shooting game with those bullets, they will kill, but are not great hunting bullets. It depends what power levels you are shooting? You can still take game up close with 38 special or +P lever power and non expanding cast bullets as long as you limit shooting to the trajectory of the bullet( which will be about the same as a 22LR subsonic) and are prepared for some follow-up, as most stuff will run a bit before dieing with a 38 cal hole in it at under 1100fps

Step the loads out to the mid burning level and you get into bonafied game killing, bullets expand to 50-60cal and game starts to fall over more quickly.

[Tubs]

Havent picked up lever action yet. Any recommendations? Pistol is a Ruger GP 100.

[mickb]

Main options in no particular order, just as I think of them.

1.Rossi 1892 in 357. Strongest action, can be a little rough out of the shop but can be smoothed up. In 16" and 20" round barrel an 1892 action is the lightest 357 on the market. The 24" octagonal is a heavier profile, Stainless or blued. Price 800-1200. Top eject so cant mount scope in normal position but can add rail further down the barrel in the 'scout position' for scope or red dot.
2. Winchester Miroku 1892 in 357. Similar gun and function to the Rossi but higher grade gun and finish, 2K+ gun. I think they also do a takedown but over 3k price tag.
3. Chiappa 1892. between Rossi and Winchester in finish and appearance but I cant stomach chiappa anymore with the issues I had with them, sorry. Good luck.
4. Marlin 94, 19" barrel, ( think they also do a 22" octagonal). Good quality these days, side ejection port so can mount scope in normal position. Strong, fast action. $1500 I think
5. Winchester 1873 reproductions by Winchester/Miroku and Uberti. Not the strongest action but will handle moderate 357 and factory loads. Heavier overall than the 1892 actions. Various configurations.18-24" round barrel, octagonal and half round barrels. Very high grade guns, 2k+ prices, attractive, slick action and stylish.
6. Henry lever actions. I dont know much about them except the quality is classed as good but unlke all the above they use end tube loading. Aka, no sside gate for inserting cartridges, you have to unscrew the end of the tube and put rounds in, much like a tube fed 22LR. I dont have time for that, some people like it though.Just remembered I think they also do a side gate loader too...too sluggish to research it sorry mate... someone will weigh in on it

I probably forgot one or two but they are the main contenders

Most people start with a Rossi or Marlin , they are very common, affordable and good bangers for the buck.

[johnboy357]

I would forget trying to develop one load for both guns. Sounds like the rifle is for hunting and the revolver is for target work. Do the revolver loads using the projectiles and powder you already have but put them together in a .38 case. Stick with the .38 projectiles - the 9mm ones are slightly undersized and could give poorer accuracy. About 4 to 4.5 grains of AP50 or APS 450 should give good results with the 125 RN .38 projectiles.

For the rifle/ hunting go to .357 cases and buy some good quality jacketed HP projectiles. 158 grain should cover most situations. Use a case full- almost - of slow burning powder [AR2205 / Winchester 296 etc] and small pistol magnum primers. The use of the two different cases should solve the problem of getting the loads mixed up. Dont forget to clean the chambers of the revolver well after using .38 cases.

[No1Mk3]

G'day Tubs,
You cannot load the replica lever action rifle so hot it hurts a GP, actually impossible. To hurt the GP your rifle would blow up much earlier. All Italian and American 357 Mag rifles are proofed to SAAMI loads for the cartridge working pressure of 35000psi, as are all modern revolvers. Some small frame revolvers will show stretching of the frame after a long diet of full pressure loads but the GP will not, it along with the Korth and the MR73 were made to shoot and endless supply of full house loads without injury. Develop whatever load you like for the rifle, keeping to published data for pressure, and stick it in the Ruger with confidence that NO HARM can come of this. The only consideration I would have is the tendency of high velocity light projectile loads to cause gas cutting of the revolver frame and even this is not noted in the Ruger as it is in S&W and Colt revolvers, Cheers

[Tubs]

G'day Tubs,
You cannot load the replica lever action rifle so hot it hurts a GP, actually impossible. To hurt the GP your rifle would blow up much earlier. All Italian and American 357 Mag rifles are proofed to SAAMI loads for the cartridge working pressure of 35000psi, as are all modern revolvers. Some small frame revolvers will show stretching of the frame after a long diet of full pressure loads but the GP will not, it along with the Korth and the MR73 were made to shoot and endless supply of full house loads without injury. Develop whatever load you like for the rifle, keeping to published data for pressure, and stick it in the Ruger with confidence that NO HARM can come of this. The only consideration I would have is the tendency of high velocity light projectile loads to cause gas cutting of the revolver frame and even this is not noted in the Ruger as it is in S&W and Colt revolvers, Cheers

Legend, thanks. What is a good general purpose projectile to use for larger game vs smaller game? I like the idea of just having one rifle - I can use light 38 special for bunnies and super hot 158 gn for the bigger stuff ie: pigs. The only limitation is range - do most people put scopes on their lever actions?

[Tubs]

I would forget trying to develop one load for both guns. Sounds like the rifle is for hunting and the revolver is for target work. Do the revolver loads using the projectiles and powder you already have but put them together in a .38 case. Stick with the .38 projectiles - the 9mm ones are slightly undersized and could give poorer accuracy. About 4 to 4.5 grains of AP50 or APS 450 should give good results with the 125 RN .38 projectiles.

For the rifle/ hunting go to .357 cases and buy some good quality jacketed HP projectiles. 158 grain should cover most situations. Use a case full- almost - of slow burning powder [AR2205 / Winchester 296 etc] and small pistol magnum primers. The use of the two different cases should solve the problem of getting the loads mixed up. Dont forget to clean the chambers of the revolver well after using .38 cases.

Thanks, I have a stack of small pistol projectiles, can I just use those?

[bladeracer]

Thanks, I have a stack of small pistol projectiles, can I just use those?

If you mean primers, yes.

[bladeracer]

Legend, thanks. What is a good general purpose projectile to use for larger game vs smaller game? I like the idea of just having one rifle - I can use light 38 special for bunnies and super hot 158 gn for the bigger stuff ie: pigs. The only limitation is range - do most people put scopes on their lever actions?

I like to scope during load development, not for hunting. Lever-actions to me are for close fast work, not long-range precision. If I were wanting to use it at longer ranges I would scope it.

[Tubs]

Legend, thanks. What is a good general purpose projectile to use for larger game vs smaller game? I like the idea of just having one rifle - I can use light 38 special for bunnies and super hot 158 gn for the bigger stuff ie: pigs. The only limitation is range - do most people put scopes on their lever actions?

I like to scope during load development, not for hunting. Lever-actions to me are for close fast work, not long-range precision. If I were wanting to use it at longer ranges I would scope it.

Thanks Bladeracer. If you had a pick of only two other rifles for hunting in the scrub what would you pick?

[bladeracer]

Thanks Bladeracer. If you had a pick of only two other rifles for hunting in the scrub what would you pick?

I have a lot of rifles and cartridges I could choose from to suit the environment.
I'd probably get the 16" Marlin 1894 in .44 Magnum or the 16" Rossi 92 in .357 Magnum if it's only going to be close work in heavy bush. Mine are 20" and 24".
Otherwise, if longer shots are likely, the 18" Ruger American Compact in 7mm-08. Mine is the 22".

[Tubs]

Thanks Bladeracer. If you had a pick of only two other rifles for hunting in the scrub what would you pick?

I have a lot of rifles and cartridges I could choose from to suit the environment.
I'd probably get the 16" Marlin 1894 in .44 Magnum or the 16" Rossi 92 in .357 Magnum if it's only going to be close work in heavy bush. Mine are 20" and 24".
Otherwise, if longer shots are likely, the 18" Ruger American Compact in 7mm-08. Mine is the 22".

thanks man. would you scope the Ruger and if so what would you use?

[bladeracer]

I have a lot of rifles and cartridges I could choose from to suit the environment.
I'd probably get the 16" Marlin 1894 in .44 Magnum or the 16" Rossi 92 in .357 Magnum if it's only going to be close work in heavy bush. Mine are 20" and 24".
Otherwise, if longer shots are likely, the 18" Ruger American Compact in 7mm-08. Mine is the 22".

thanks man. would you scope the Ruger and if so what would you use?

No sights on the Ruger, though not too hard to install some.
For close work probably a 2-7x32, something in that range. Two-power is still low enough for fairly easy shooting with both eyes open.

There are a lot of other rifles I'd enjoy for that, like some milsurp carbines, or even rifles like the No.4, 1903-A3, M38 Swede or Kar98k would be awesome. Or a shotgun with slugs and heavy buckshot.