supposedly we are "rolling with the punches"

[Bill]

Yeah nah boingk, early days but Covid 19 appears to leave some many many sufferers with permanent damage.

Death rate isn't really the issue its the reduced function/reduction of life span that's going to cost us long term. Some studies are suggesting it could potentially take 13yrs off life expectancy

Some patients have permanent lung damage, pancreas, bowel or heart damage. We don't really understand the long term affects but plenty of people are left with ongoing issues we don't really understand. Early days for scientists.

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/07 ... scientists

Scomo and the liberals chose to do the full lock down, no point chasing herd immunity now after spending the 2nd highest amount of cash per capita after Qatar.

To now do herd immunity after the Liberals have torched $200 Billion is just a daft suggestion

Marksman I read your rant twice and Im still not sure what you were trying to say

[Blr243]

The subject of life expectancy reminds me of a joke .....why do men die before their wives? Answer...because they want too....

[womble]

Jobs can be replaced. The economy can be re-grown. People can’t be.
These are untimely deaths, not through natural causes.
Because it’s not a virus created by nature and it dose’nt behave like one. Perhaps it never will. We are not seeing weaker strains to keep the host alive in order to ensure it’s own survival. We should have by now, like any other naturally occurring virus.
This virus survives and thrives because it’s enhanced. This thing was coded. It was engineered to kill at the cost of it’s own life.
Nothing in the natural world does that. It goes against the laws of nature. It’s not going to evolve into weaker strains.
It will have mutated a thousand times by now and yet still it can’t go against it’s genetic coding.
Like everything else China dose’nt care about patents, global policies on crisper, gene editing, moral obligations. They’ve had the technology to do this for at least 20 years and China has never abided by any worldwide constraints due to morality dilemmas.
They are light years ahead of the rest of the world now.
We don’t know what we are dealing with and what it will become. We are baffled by it. We need to kill it. The only way we can kill it is to starve it to death.

[trekin]

Jobs can be replaced. The economy can be re-grown. People can’t be.
These are untimely deaths, not through natural causes.
Because it’s not a virus created by nature and it dose’nt behave like one. Perhaps it never will. We are not seeing weaker strains to keep the host alive in order to ensure it’s own survival. We should have by now, like any other naturally occurring virus.
This virus survives and thrives because it’s enhanced. This thing was coded. It was engineered to kill at the cost of it’s own life.
Nothing in the natural world does that. It goes against the laws of nature. It’s not going to evolve into weaker strains.
It will have mutated a thousand times by now and yet still it can’t go against it’s genetic coding.
Like everything else China dose’nt care about patents, global policies on crisper, gene editing, moral obligations. They’ve had the technology to do this for at least 20 years and China has never abided by any worldwide constraints due to morality dilemmas.
They are light years ahead of the rest of the world now.
We don’t know what we are dealing with and what it will become. We are baffled by it. We need to kill it. The only way we can kill it is to starve it to death.

Don't lose hope mate.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-08-01/ ... e/12514988
Starving it to death is what herd immunity is all about. Herd immunity is when 60-70% of the population become immune, this is achieved, for any viral infection, by a combination natual aquired immunity, and man made vacine.

[wanneroo]

Yeah nah boingk, early days but Covid 19 appears to leave some many many sufferers with permanent damage.

Death rate isn't really the issue its the reduced function/reduction of life span that's going to cost us long term. Some studies are suggesting it could potentially take 13yrs off life expectancy

Some patients have permanent lung damage, pancreas, bowel or heart damage. We don't really understand the long term affects but plenty of people are left with ongoing issues we don't really understand. Early days for scientists.

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/07 ... scientists

Scomo and the liberals chose to do the full lock down, no point chasing herd immunity now after spending the 2nd highest amount of cash per capita after Qatar.

To now do herd immunity after the Liberals have torched $200 Billion is just a daft suggestion

Marksman I read your rant twice and Im still not sure what you were trying to say

I was hearing via my sister from an emergency room X-ray tech and he was saying a lot of the Covid patients he's seeing, many do not have to be hospitalized but it's pretty clear on the X ray they will have permanent lung damage.

Covid is something a lot of us is going to be paying for one way or another for a long time thanks to China.

However we also have to factor in the long term impacts from the "lockdown". How long can society pay for a lockdown, social distancing and all that stuff?

[wanneroo]

Agreed Wanneroo. You don't ask a medical expert with regards to the "best" outcome because it is a trade off of various outcomes.

Politicians and medical professors are too scared to say their estimates of the black plague were completely wrong. In Australia they predicted 7000 people per day to the ICU even with social distancing. With 25 million plus we have about 45 total.

No politician is strong enough to say, look we over reacted. Its not as bad as it seems. We'll make sure the elderly and infirmed are looked after, everybody else look after your hygiene and get back to your work and life.

There is no "exit" strategy from this situation. Every politician is waiting for some other person to "take the first steps" when in reality the fear doesn't match the reality of the last 6 months.

The mainstream media's obsession's with death numbers of elderly people and hysteria to increase lockdown measures is fueling the politician's irrational approach to this epidemic.

I think politicians to some degree do not care because they are still getting paid and if they get dumped out of office there is probably some think tank or government type job they can get. Also they enjoy their power and the more hysteria and panic they create, the more they can control the people.

I believe we are at a point where with the politicians it's not about the virus, it's about how much control and power they can hoard.

It's pretty clear from the data this virus really goes hard after the old and infirm and really that is where the focus should be.

[marksman]

Jobs can be replaced. The economy can be re-grown. People can’t be.
These are untimely deaths, not through natural causes.
Because it’s not a virus created by nature and it dose’nt behave like one. Perhaps it never will. We are not seeing weaker strains to keep the host alive in order to ensure it’s own survival. We should have by now, like any other naturally occurring virus.
This virus survives and thrives because it’s enhanced. This thing was coded. It was engineered to kill at the cost of it’s own life.
Nothing in the natural world does that. It goes against the laws of nature. It’s not going to evolve into weaker strains.
It will have mutated a thousand times by now and yet still it can’t go against it’s genetic coding.
Like everything else China dose’nt care about patents, global policies on crisper, gene editing, moral obligations. They’ve had the technology to do this for at least 20 years and China has never abided by any worldwide constraints due to morality dilemmas.
They are light years ahead of the rest of the world now.
We don’t know what we are dealing with and what it will become. We are baffled by it. We need to kill it. The only way we can kill it is to starve it to death.

+1
the reason we need good leadership that will do the job right so people will follow without stupid double standards that's not milking it for everything they can, victoria was bankrupt before the CCP virus but the virus is being used to cover it up,
since Dandemic allowed the march it has all turned to sh!t and peoples attitudes have changed

social distancing is how they got rid of the spanish flu, its the only thing that worked, masks gloves and disinfectants did not work

"Marksman I read your rant twice and Im still not sure what you were trying to say "
yes you do Bill you know exactly what l'm saying and l'm still thinking it

[Bill]

marksman comprehensive genomic sequencing linked the current massive outbreak to Hotel Quarantine failure, you keep on posting horse manure and you wonder why you have little credibility

And stating that mask dont work is again a lie, but that seems to be your MO, please quit posting factually incorrect statements

https://www.livescience.com/hair-stylis ... masks.html

[womble]

We know from early on the doctors and nurses in China still died despite masks. Because it can still get in your eyes.
Mask mitigates risk but does not eliminate risk.
Now Bill i think it might be time for your rest. You just relax now buddy. Of to bed.

[Bill]

no doubt womble if you're caring for a Covid 19 patients in an ICU who's knee deep then of course a mask isnt enough and the full PPE kits is required, but for the general population its been proven to have a benefit in reducing the chance of transmission

We dont need the bull chit Anti-Vaxxer types like Marksman spreading crap theories that arent based upon best practice

[wanneroo]

I woke up this morning to see the new restrictions in Melbourne, crazy stuff. Six weeks, can't go further than 5 kms, one person in the house can shop per day, can go to work but what's the point if you have no customers, can exercise once per day, etc. How long can they keep this nonsense up for?

[Oldbloke]

The Vic Gov summary of restrictions. Just add masks.

Covid restrictions.jpeg (371.76 KiB) Viewed 5553 times

[womble]

Looks like they’re not going hard enough, most people still going to work. Supposed to announce restrictions on that today, but labour government so would be huge pressure from unions and business to keep going.
I think they should kill it. A lot of people are pushing for full lockdown. Kill it now or it’s game over. We”ll be slaughtered like the US

[Ziege]

Well I'm stuck between two camps, in many places the deaths from despair have outnumbered deaths from the virus, even in the USA where the numbers are definitely being blown out of proportion, but the virus is an arse ache too and no question costs lives, question is, should we bother stopping it if more people just due of suicide and substance abuse caused by isolation? After all if less would die from the actual virus (as is the case now) than the subsequent mental health issues, what's the point in stopping it???

[mchughcb]

Well I'm stuck between two camps, in many places the deaths from despair have outnumbered deaths from the virus, even in the USA where the numbers are definitely being blown out of proportion, but the virus is an arse ache too and no question costs lives, question is, should we bother stopping it if more people just due of suicide and substance abuse caused by isolation? After all if less would die from the actual virus (as is the case now) than the subsequent mental health issues, what's the point in stopping it???

Lets get this right. I live in a hotspot. But don't know a single person who has it. I don't see ambulances rushing people to the ICU.

The average death in age in Australia is 83. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_c ... expectancy

The average age of deaths from Covid is about 82. https://www.health.gov.au/resources/cov ... up-and-sex

But the government won't report suicides incase of copycat behavior so it conveniently gets swept under the carpet.

So should you isolate the young? No.
Should older people be careful - if they think so.
Why they don't report that 99% of cases recover.
They report that people suffer scaring of lungs and other issues.
But they don't report that with a whole bunch of other diseases that people get to that you recover from but decreases your life expectancy.


I've had pneumonia three times and hospitalised. Last time they found a tumor in the lung which resulted in losing half a lung. I don't have the lung capacity I used to have. I have nerve damage on my ribs which coughing or getting punched hurts a lot. I'll never be the same. But do I impede other peoples liberties to life. Not a bloody chance.

There is no point what they were doing. Trust me if it was Ebola or the Black Plague with a 30% to 90% mortality rate of all ages people won't give a flying f*** what the government thinks. We are in the twighlight zone, where the economic and loss of civil liberties over reaction doesn't match the deaths or permanent disabilities.

[marksman]

"I woke up this morning to see the new restrictions in Melbourne, crazy stuff. Six weeks, can't go further than 5 kms, one person in the house can shop per day, can go to work but what's the point if you have no customers, can exercise once per day, etc. How long can they keep this nonsense up for?"

as long as it takes to make the case of why they sold the state out to the CCP belt and road deal wanneroo
hopefully the CCP virus curve will flatten out at the same time, if it doesn't we are told its all our fault

"Mask mitigates risk but does not eliminate risk."

funny you say that womble and understand Bill sells the masks he buys from china so he knows best
another funny thing l saw this morning was a guy wearing a pair of jocks on his head as a mask but l did not see anyone in my area except some under 12's without a mask on, you are right though a mask mitigates the risk and wearers should be very mindful of that

"I think they should kill it. A lot of people are pushing for full lockdown. Kill it now or it’s game over."

you would be surprised how many people think the exact same

"We dont need the bull chit Anti-Vaxxer types like Marksman spreading crap theories that arent based upon best practice "



want some burn cream Bill

[wanneroo]

Looks like they’re not going hard enough, most people still going to work. Supposed to announce restrictions on that today, but labour government so would be huge pressure from unions and business to keep going.
I think they should kill it. A lot of people are pushing for full lockdown. Kill it now or it’s game over. We”ll be slaughtered like the US

Without testing of every single person you do not know who has it or who does not. So lets say that they go full lockdown, everybody stay home, no one goes anywhere for a week.

The problem is that you now take people that have it and because they are cooped up with their family or whoever, those people get it and then at some point people are going to go bonkers and have to leave their house for something, so it will spread. There is enough research to show that asymptomatic people rarely spread it through casual contact.

I really do not know any way at all to stop it unless in one day you test every single person, identify all the people that have it and then quarantine them in isolation for two weeks.

I just do not see how a great depression is going to cure the virus.

[Grandadbushy]

Wanneroo, '' How long can this go on for''? Well your guess is as good as any ones , but what i've heard is it could be for a long time if it isn't handled correctly , now all the people on here who seem to have all the answers forget one thing this is not a piss take from any government , personally i think they don't know how to handle it therefore, are using past medical experience to try and control it , now this way has not always been 100% effective but it's the best we have at the moment, This ''Lets all just do our thing '' goes against all that has been learnt from past experience against most virus's as for social distancing well i ask all those people that think it is BS ''Would you buy a puppy from a kennel's known to have a virus that is contagious ? ''NO'' i doubt even one person would , How do you think they kept foot and mouth confined till they had a basic vaccine for it, Hepatitis , measles, flu and many more are some that are dealt with by social distancing because it seems to help the situation , yet with all this knowledge there are still those, so rapped up in themselves they think all this social distancing ,lock downs, masks, closed borders is BS well i'd just like to ask them where they obtained this knowledge and possibly use a little grey matter to understand this virus could turn into the worst one we've had yet and unstoppable until a vaccine is obtained, yes it probably isn't as bad as some of the virus's we've had in the past but that doesn't give anyone the right to buck the system at any stage, and condemn others to death by doing so , people have to understand that until this virus is done we have to do what it takes to beat it and what that is is any bodies guess but thinking you have all the answers and bucking the system that's in place isn't it.
It is known that those that whinge, complain, tear down good advice and don't accept advice are usually the ones that demand so much when their bricks crumble around them so maybe this is the right time to sit back and take some advice, yes people are suffering in many fields but as i said before we've had wars and recovered ''but never the same'' but recovered, we've had floods, fires, virus's but recovered of sorts in every case so we have to learn from history and not predict what is unknown

[mchughcb]

Wanneroo, '' How long can this go on for''?

Here is an alternative view.

Each Australian who bangs on about more restrictions who is not currently under martial law.

The virus or the governments response to the virus? The virus can go for ever. The current governments response cannot.

How many people died last year from influenza? Did you get a flu vaccine? Did you self isolate. Did you wear a mask? Did you restrict your movement to one hour per day within 5km of your house.

If you did none of the above then you were responsible for spreading influenza which may have resulted in the death of thousands in Australia.

[mchughcb]

yes people are suffering in many fields but as i said before we've had wars and recovered ''but never the same'' but recovered, we've had floods, fires, virus's but recovered of sorts in every case so we have to learn from history and not predict what is unknown

We don't have a war but somebody will be paying this off government approach for the next 50 years.

WW2 was paid off by the British in 2006.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk/6215847.stm

[Grandadbushy]

Yes mchughcb mate it's gonna be tough but it's all we got for now i agree we can't do this forever ,BUT it hasn't helped by people doing the wrong thing, and no we don't have a war but it affects the economy and people similar, most governments end up broke after wars and this could be similar, as far as isolation goes yes i do keep clear from others with virus's or if i've got the flu we live miles from most people so it's not a problem for us and as far as complaining and we aren't under martial law well you have to wonder why they are under martial law is it because they didn't do the right thing in the first place, it's easy to blame the government for most of this but people have to take some of the blame especially those that flaunt the rules. up here we've been lucky so far because our Premier didn't bow to pressure from the other states and open the borders and look at their situation, you are right about this not being able to be kept up and i have no doubt if things don't move to the better, things will change and governments will try and adapt to other ideas but for now lets not condemn everything that has been done because it's been a learning curve for us all and lets hope something gives soon so we all can resume as normal a life as possible

[Oldbloke]

@grandadbushy.

Fonz.jpg (30.3 KiB) Viewed 5505 times

[TassieTiger]

Jetstar have just confirmed a CV positive case was on board from Sydney to QLD...trying to track all 149 passengers now...I don’t see how “normal” life can align with a complete eradication - it’s just not feasible.

[Bill]

marksman just put your best foot forward during these difficult times, thats all any of us can do, jokes aside I hope like schit case numbers start falling in Victoria for everyone sake.

Wash your hands, wear a mask when indoors or in close proximity to others and keep on social distancing.

[mchughcb]

Yes mchughcb mate it's gonna be tough but it's all we got for now i agree we can't do this forever ,BUT it hasn't helped by people doing the wrong thing, and no we don't have a war but it affects the economy and people similar, most governments end up broke after wars and this could be similar, as far as isolation goes yes i do keep clear from others with virus's or if i've got the flu we live miles from most people so it's not a problem for us and as far as complaining and we aren't under martial law well you have to wonder why they are under martial law is it because they didn't do the right thing in the first place, it's easy to blame the government for most of this but people have to take some of the blame especially those that flaunt the rules. up here we've been lucky so far because our Premier didn't bow to pressure from the other states and open the borders and look at their situation, you are right about this not being able to be kept up and i have no doubt if things don't move to the better, things will change and governments will try and adapt to other ideas but for now lets not condemn everything that has been done because it's been a learning curve for us all and lets hope something gives soon so we all can resume as normal a life as possible

There is some assumption that do the right thing and everybody will be okay. I hear that every day from people.

However when I look at the clusters of community transmission they are now over 80% at work or where people live. So Meatworks, warehouses, hospitals and aged care. When I see people who are infected, like doctors, nurses, medical staff, old pensioners, and police I start to think well if "they" are doing the "right" stuff and still getting infected then what?

The continue deflection by the Government and their media sycophants onto punters walking around the Tan because she got sick of walking around Brighton, the guy that ordered an indian takeaway in the city, the guy that ate McDonalds in Albury. So few newsworthy cases and not one of them was transmitting anything, but we have outbreaks of hundreds at meatworks, aged care, schools, ethnic homes after religious festivals and hospitals. Apart from the last place, we don't hear how many of those recovered. All we get every day is another briefing of the nameless people with an average age of 80 passed away. We don't even hear if they were compromised health already.

Then we have the extremely intelligent soccer mums living off welfare who say stage 4 is state of disaster is not enough. We need house arrest. And they aren't kidding.

For all the other states who think this self inflicted over reaction won't happen to them watch this space. You can't see it, every person you see could be symptomatic and the virus can last for days on surfaces.

[mchughcb]

marksman just put your best foot forward during these difficult times, thats all any of us can do, jokes aside I hope like schit case numbers start falling in Victoria for everyone sake.

Wash your hands, wear a mask when indoors or in close proximity to others and keep on social distancing.

Yes and lock yourself in your house 23 hours a day and only leave for one hour for exercise - walking in a 5km radius because the government has the army and police on the streets to fine you $1600 or more if you don't or worse

[mchughcb]

Finally a QLD Law Professor worth listening too.

https://youtu.be/hvOcyc3jNcA

[Bill]

Chuck I'm going to keep on working in a clean room and warehouse and help make surgical equipment that gets used during general, gynae and urological laparoscopic surgery.

That surgery can only keep getting done if the ICU units don't get flooded with Covid 19 patients.

We have a few spare ventilators for Covid 19 sufferers and but we don't spare Anaethetist !!!

[marksman]

unlike other states we Victorians went through a much tougher lockdown and we did do it we had the numbers down and were heading in the right direction
we did not like the lockdown and did not agree with the double standards at that time eg: no hunting or golf but you can go for a bushwalk, no swimming but you can go surfing, no boating but you could go canoeing or kayaking, but IMHO the clincher where l saw a change in people's attitudes was that we could not see our mothers on mother's day or have an anzac day but 10,000 fools could have a BLM march

the reason l started this thread was because of the frustration l felt because of the incompetent double standards from our government and its leader trying to make out they were doing something about this mess but really were not eg: you cant have visitors at home but you can meet the same visitors at the park
Victoria has 6,359 million people living here, we have idiots who do not comply with the rules the same as all states, the majority are complying to the rules
but we have a premier who blames everything on the public but has not yet once admitted any responsibility for his failures, “creeping complacency” of people disregarding social distancing is what he has said designed to shift blame onto ordinary people
l myself do not know anyone who has been fined or purposely does the wrong thing, my community has no active cases and are doing the right thing that l have witnessed, in fact we have had 4 cases all up in my area and that was at the start

here's a list of some of what l condemn with what has been done by our government, what l think about it
it may be looked at as a winge but to me its a reason for no confidence in the Victorian leadership

the black lives matter march,
it was two weeks after the march we started to really see a big change in numbers, its not the only thing that has affected numbers
the hotel security guard fail
council flats fail, to get these people tested Victoria had to pay each individual $500
Cedar meats abattoir identity was protected because they are a labour party donor
failed outreach to ethnic groups eg: sent out CCP virus health advice in tribal languages to communities where very few people can read at all
lack of support or advice for workers who are being tested
very sluggish contact tracing, unlike all other states who are on top of contact tracing
Dan was advised to suspend elective surgeries to allow for the evacuation of elderly residents in aged care to hospital but failed to act, scomo intervened
lack of confidence after the BLM march where 10,000 residents from known Melbourne hotspots refused to be tested
Dan tried to justify the jump in numbers as being due to the much greater level of testing under way in Victoria
Dan stubbornly refused to accept the help of the ADF and to explain why he made this decision.

Dan gets an F for failure from me for very good reasons
l hope there is some understanding why a lot of Victorians are angry at the failures of the Andrews Labor Government
because the majority "have been doing the right thing"

[mchughcb]

Ban Mother's day followed by allowing a BLM march was the clincher. Cops coming down hard on old grandmas sitting on a park bench having a rest then bunch of twats blocking the city free rein.