500 Jeffery 440gn load

[LawrenceA]

HI all
Recently got a 500 Jeffery and have ordered some of Bertram's 440grain pills.
I am hoping the might be OK on pigs.

As I use ADI powder I contacted them for load data as the only load they list is for 2206 and a 570grain pill.
ADI responded with the fact that 2206 has not been made in over 10 years and they do not have any further data so supplied the 2206/570gn load to me.

Has anyone got experience using Trail Boss in the 500J or load data for a 440grain bullet??

[bladeracer]

Trailboss is not going to make as much velocity as regular powders, but is dead easy to experiment with. Just fill the case up to the base of the bullet, and go shoot it.

[Blr243]

I’d be lost without trail boss

[TassieTiger]

Is it true you cannot over pressurise with TB ?

[Blr243]

My understanding is that irs safe in everything unless ,it’s compressed ( broken grains and more surface area) or Too much space inside the partially filled case

[TassieTiger]

Blr - Have you used your 45 in anger yet ?

[bladeracer]

Is it true you cannot over pressurise with TB ?

I don't know about being impossible, but certainly unlikely in my experience.
It seems to hit a pressure limit before you get a full case in some cartridges.

[Blr243]

No. Anyone who grabs a rifle from the safe when they are angry usually ends up in the can. ....I think u meant to say have u fired it yet ? I’ll definitely be carting it in the back of my Ute to my next bush trip ...I’m hoping it’s warm enough to find pigs on water in the daytime. It’s set up to be a daytime gun. Mine chambers easily with the red tips cut off with a knife .....I was supposed to stop work on Friday next week but I took on another little Job because it looks challenging , interesting and profitable .....so my major hunt is delayed for a couple of days ....I’ll probably take my shotgun and kayak on the trip way too

[bladeracer]

My understanding is that irs safe in everything unless ,it’s compressed ( broken grains and more surface area) or Too much space inside the partially filled case

Hugely-reduced loads is more a problem with heavy bullets on very slow powders, TB is a very fast powder. I've been down to 3.6gn in .223 and .243.

[Blr243]

Blade your comment about low case till volume is interesting but I will stick to the rules because I’ll b useing heavy Bullets in my next trail boss adventure 525 grain bullet in th 4570

[LawrenceA]

If you look at TB pressures you will find it is high but not sustained which is why you can use it in just about anything that will take smokeless.
I have used TB in 223 up to 30-06 and 45-70.
For the 500 Jeffery I am going to try TB when I get my 525gn mold and I expect velocities of 13-1500 fps. Maybe a little more.
With a straight cast projectile I could probably use 500 nitro for black max as a starting load and I think 2207 would go well.

But considering the ability to load down with 2206H and that the ADI load is for 2206 then I could probably check case capacity with 2206H and go 65-70% which is probably around 70grains for about 2000fps maybe more.

I was just hoping that someone had already invented this wheel.

[wrenchman]

Can you please post a pic of the round I have never seen one and what type of action is it

[LawrenceA]

I don't know how to post pictures on this forum.
The gun is just a bolt action.
https://revivaler.com/the-500-jeffery-and-500-schuler/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jnuQfL0 ... fAustralia

I WANT a plinking round

[marksman]

not having more specifics l have done a standard extrapolation on quickload using the woodleigh 440gr bullet that may give you an idea of where to start
since woodleigh make the bullet they usually would have a reloading listing of it but my manual doesn't

using adi 2206h



using adi 2209

[LawrenceA]

not having more specifics l have done a standard extrapolation on quickload using the woodleigh 440gr bullet that may give you an idea of where to start
since woodleigh make the bullet they usually would have a reloading listing of it but my manual doesn't

You are a scholar and a gentleman.
No the Woodleigh manual doesn't list it for the 500J but does for others.

I am gobsmacked at the loads!
A 79% load running 6000ft lbs and a 440grain pill at just shy of 2500fps.
DAMN!

Many thanks

[boingk]

I WANT a plinking round

Trailboss is definitely your answer then. Fill 75% of a case and go from there. It'll probably be about 25gn of powder, its stupidly fluffy. As an example I use 14gn in my 45-70 with 405gn projectiles that trundle out the bore doing just under the sound barrier. That case normally holds about 50gn of powder under the projectile.

EDIT:

I am gobsmacked at the loads!

Yeah, the 500 jeff isn't mucking around. These things are properly powerful bits of gear.

[Bill]

LawrenceA I've got quickload data for my 500 A Square 440gr Woodleigh and Trailboss

31gr of TBoss is 73% case capacity for 1363fps 21k psi 1814 ftlb energy
37gr of TBoss is 87% case capacity for 1495fps 27k psi 2184 ftlb energy
43gr of TBoss is 101% case capacity for 1617fps 33k psi 2556 ftlb energy

I reckon your 500 Jeffrey would be pretty close to the A Square in capacity so these loads should be well safe, I wouldn't go too far below 70% case capacity for safety reasons and go to Spotlight or your local haberdashery and grab some Dacron to use as filler.

[marksman]

LawrenceA I've got quickload data for my 500 A Square 440gr Woodleigh and Trailboss

31gr of TBoss is 73% case capacity for 1363fps 21k psi 1814 ftlb energy
37gr of TBoss is 87% case capacity for 1495fps 27k psi 2184 ftlb energy
43gr of TBoss is 101% case capacity for 1617fps 33k psi 2556 ftlb energy

I reckon your 500 Jeffrey would be pretty close to the A Square in capacity so these loads should be well safe, I wouldn't go too far below 70% case capacity for safety reasons and go to Spotlight or your local haberdashery and grab some Dacron to use as filler.

why dont you just do an extrapolation for his 500 Jefferys with TBoss

[LawrenceA]

Thanks Bill and marksman
This is all I need.
The 500 A square has 10% less capacity.
It tells me that a full case of TB will sit about 1600-1700fps.
100gr of AR2206H will sit at about 2400fps and 120 grains of AR2209 will give a similar 2400fps with about 10-15 grains leaving the barrel unburnt.
So AR2208 is probably a good choice as its burn rate is slightly slower than 2206H and faster than 2209. A load of 100grains will be safe as it is slower than 2206H and a lesser charge than the data above.

Extrapolating the 2206H data a 60% reduced load would be just under 90gr so this would make a good start load and probably have a velocity at around 2,000 fps.
Doing the same for 2209 but a 70% load would give about 100gr.
If I am reading the Quickload Data correctly then the pressures for the loads provided are sitting at 36-37k psi which is well under the 46k psi in the SAAMI specs

So I will try TB as with the 525gr cast. even at 1500fps this will make a hell of a pig stopper and no leading issue or need to powder coat. Could even use pure lead at this speed. AR2207 may do well with the 525 cast as cast bullets generate less pressure but 90grains sounds like a hell of a load when my 45-70 takes not much over 50grains (37.5grain is far more pleasant).

The 440grain I can try with 2206,08 and 09 and see what performs.

Either way plenty of fun to be had!!!

[Blr243]

I thought the only way to get a certain pill travel ing at a certain speed was to research and do physical experimenting. But all this quick load data talk makes me think there is possibly computer programs to get me close? Is this true ? And if so can anyone here suggest a tb load for a 525 grain lead hawks bullet in my 4570. At 1100 FPS ? God bless and I owe you a Cold beer On a hot day

[Bill]

Lawrence Ill be doing some reloading in December hopefully, just in the middle of renovations so no time for reloading or range work. Youve got me motivated put together some Trail boss load for plinking.

95gr of 2206 in my 500A2 pushes a 570gr cast to 2050fps from memory. A sweet accurate load to shoot

[marksman]

your right Blr you do need to do real world physical experimenting, quickload is an extrapolation (an estimate) it's how you can customise a handload to your rifle
much better than any handloading book
my copy doesn't have Trail Boss listed as a powder to use the reason l asked Bill why not do the Jeffrey instead of the a square?
so l cant run an extrapolation for your 525gr load

[LawrenceA]

Cool Bill
That sounds like an awesome load.
Let me know how you go with TB.

Gotta admit I bought some TB a few back when it only came in 1.5kg bottles and hardly use it soooo it would be good to have something that burnt a useful amount of it.

[Bill]

marksman I dont have Quickload, I get a mate to do my data, I just save all the files

[LawrenceA]

Thanks all for all your help.
It will make a world of difference.
Honestly I am old school. Never seen a chronograph and basically use data just to start me going looking for an adequate load.
What you have provided will allow me to do this with a better idea of where to safely start.

I fully understand, as mentioned above, all the data you find is a guide at best.
Even data you get from your rifle on any given day is virtually not repeatable as climatic conditions change and components vary from batch to batch.

[Blr243]

Thanks anyway marksman Regarding thinking that 1.5 is too much trail boss powder to buy. I thought the same when they said this is all we got I thought I never use all that. But after a while I’m thinking .....I’m ok for the moment but at some stage I’ll have to grab me another bottle. Before I die anyway

[marksman]

Thanks all for all your help.
It will make a world of difference.
Honestly I am old school. Never seen a chronograph and basically use data just to start me going looking for an adequate load.
What you have provided will allow me to do this with a better idea of where to safely start.

I fully understand, as mentioned above, all the data you find is a guide at best.
Even data you get from your rifle on any given day is virtually not repeatable as climatic conditions change and components vary from batch to batch.

very true

[boingk]

And if so can anyone here suggest a tb load for a 525 grain lead hawks bullet in my 4570. At 1100 FPS ? God bless and I owe you a Cold beer On a hot day

ADI lists a starting load of 8gn and max of 10gn for a 485gn pill in the Trapdoor actions, yielding no more than 27kCUP.

That information doesn't help us much.

My load development for Trailboss generally goes along the line of figuring out where I want the bullet seated, then drawing a line in the case where the base will be. Fill slightly less than that, call it 90~95% capacity. Load with powder to the line, measure that charge and record the number, set your loads to that and call it a day.

With a 14gn load under my 405gn pills it is about 80% capacity from memory. I'd expect with the 525's it'll be around 11 to 12gn. Use the method above and let me know!

- boingk

[Blr243]

Good stuff boingk. I should take my press and some cases away with me on the next hunt. And stuff around during the day when I’m not hunting

[LawrenceA]

I thought the only way to get a certain pill travelling at a certain speed was to research and do physical experimenting. But all this quick load data talk makes me think there is possibly computer programs to get me close? Is this true ? And if so can anyone here suggest a tb load for a 525 grain lead hawks bullet in my 4570. At 1100 FPS ? God bless and I owe you a Cold beer On a hot day

Sorry Blr243, I think you are plumb outta luck.
Hogdon also market TB but they only give 485grain loads for the Trapdoor and max out at 10.0 grains and 23k pressure (45-70 for the TD is 18k and Levers max is 28k).
I think case capacity is about 14.0grains with a 405 grain pill and gives you about 1100fps.
Remember Trail Boss is NOT a low pressure powder it just does not have sustained pressure.

I think you will probably get 1000fps out of a 525grain pill but that will about pull it up.